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Thread: Olympiacos forfeited game vs PAO in the Greek Cup

  1. #101
    Senior Member childress67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nireus View Post
    Is there any law that forbids the 8th team to beat the 1st in the playoffs?

    Oh wait. There is. In Greece.

    Indeed it gets better and better. Pao-opap fans are showing their true colours that look suspiciously like dpg's.
    Yes this law exists..paok-pao 70-67 3:30 before the end...goss fouled in his 3point shot..no one saw it..but they saw after that 2 fouls on papapetrou and calathes.. refs are always there for Pao when pao need it..
    Last edited by childress67; 02-19-2019 at 03:27 PM.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Adon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nireus View Post
    Is there any law that forbids the 8th team to beat the 1st in the playoffs?

    Oh wait. There is. In Greece. .

    Is there any law that forbids one of the greatest clubs in European bball to lead with 17 -8 championships against your team since 1992?
    Oh wait. There is. In oly fans mind, you should have more or at least the same if there is any justice in this world.

    Anyway, you missed the point. I'll explain.
    When you try to create impressions as the "wronged one", the example -in the season in which oly had finished 8th while pao had finished 1st- doesn't help your cause. I hope you can understand why.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nireus View Post
    Indeed it gets better and better. Pao-opap fans are showing their true colours that look suspiciously like dpg's.
    ...and the same old refrain when you don't like what you read.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adon View Post
    Is there any law that forbids one of the greatest clubs in European bball to lead with 17 -8 championships against your team since 1992?
    Oh wait. There is. In oly fans mind, you should have more or at least the same if there is any justice in this world.

    Anyway, you missed the point. I'll explain.
    When you try to create impressions as the "wronged one", the example -in the season in which oly had finished 8th while pao had finished 1st- doesn't help your cause. I hope you can understand why.




    ...and the same old refrain when you don't like what you read.
    It has been quite a long time since pao-opap was considered one of the greatest clubs in European bball. But that hasn't stopped him ''winning'' the domestic titles

    It does actually but I am not surprised that you don't get it.
    Years and years of favouritism tend to do that to people.

    Not my fault that you guys sound like dpg

  4. #104
    Senior Member markkanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drskull View Post
    you are right. unlike greek basketball clubs which has strong ties with their football counterparts, turkish basketball clubs are mostly corporate clubs or municipal/local authority clubs lacking fan base. we don't see football grudges or problems effecting basketball that much. If we were to compare the Pao vs Oly situation we had to have something like FB vs GS on other hands.

    criticizations and outbursts like Ataman did are mostly caused by the fact that Efes having no fan support and being vulnerable to biased refereeing when they play against big clubs (not big bball clubs necessarily, big Turkish clubs,the big 3). 2 years ago Efes owner Özilhan took the team off the court during a play off match against Beşiktaş. And they were right, the refs were butchering them. I can fairly say that Beşiktaş was favored by refs that year. But Efes only complains when they play against us, Beşiktaş or Galatasaray...teams with fan support. They are dead silent when they play against other lesser corporate clubs.
    I'm sorry for interrupting, but I have to ask ... There is a couple of millions of Turkish citizens (at least) who watch the basketball, and Efes Pilsen (now Anadolu Efes) is a successful team many years in the past and now, and yet they don't have a strong fan base. Why is that?

    I mean, are there only GS, FB and BJK fans in Turkey or what?

  5. #105
    Senior Member Tevfik1907's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markkanen View Post
    I'm sorry for interrupting, but I have to ask ... There is a couple of millions of Turkish citizens (at least) who watch the basketball, and Efes Pilsen (now Anadolu Efes) is a successful team many years in the past and now, and yet they don't have a strong fan base. Why is that?

    I mean, are there only GS, FB and BJK fans in Turkey or what?
    There are many reasons for that. I will tell you a couple ;

    1- Efes is a new club in comparison with FB, GS and BJK. Efes has been established only for more than 30 years (1976). FB, GS, BJK are very very old (1903-1907) that even older than Turkish Republic which was in 1923.

    2- Efes has been established at İstanbul, and they didn't change their location since 1976. That was a big problem since İstanbul has already 3 traditional gigantic sports clubs in İstanbul, and it's really really hard to compete and steal supporters from them in that city. I would say even FB and GS are too much for 1 city, and we've also BJK which makes it even more crowded in terms of sports club supporters in İstanbul, Efes couldn't compete with them in the same city, even when they were more successful.

    3- They also didn't even build a simple basketball court for years in İstanbul. They played at Abdi İpekçi Arena and then Sinan Erdem Arena for years, which was not a place that special to Efes, they were only hiring the saloon just like Fener, GS and BJK did in the past. This also prevented them to create a special fanbase for Efes while those 3 gigantic club supporters were also in the same saloon and in the same city. And then BJK build their own compact saloon (Akatlar Arena) and then Fenerbahçe build even a greater basketball saloon (Ülker Arena) for his own supporters only. And Efes is still hiring a basketball saloon (Sinan Erdem) from the sports ministry, and still not building one.

    Efes's main goal is making their own commercial when you think about all these reasons. If Ozhilhan (founder of Efes) really cared about creating a fan base and creating a traditional basketball club that will continue even after his death, he would carry the team from İstanbul to another city, and he would build a basketball saloon special to Efes only. But he did none of that, since the main reason is making the Efes commercials by being a sponsor to the Euroleague, not saying he doesn't like basketball, obviously he does, but that's seems like his hobby only and he doesn't care about the rest.
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  6. #106
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tevfik1907 View Post
    Efes's main goal is making their own commercial when you think about all these reasons. If Ozhilhan (founder of Efes) really cared about creating a fan base and creating a traditional basketball club that will continue even after his death, he would carry the team from İstanbul to another city, and he would build a basketball saloon special to Efes only. But he did none of that, since the main reason is making the Efes commercials by being a sponsor to the Euroleague, not saying he doesn't like basketball, obviously he does, but that's seems like his hobby only and he doesn't care about the rest.
    I don't want to derail the topic, which is not going anywhere anyway, but I object to his commonly expressed claim (as you surely guessed ): Majority of important bball personalities in Turkey today, including those considered the pillars of clubs like Fener, or the TBF, or the ones played in the NBA, was once a part of Efes Pilsen, which was, and is to a lesser extent today, the country's player factory with its infrastructure. This cannot be just a hobby or commercial tool of a rich guy. It's been important for commercial purposes, but it has passed so much beyond for over the 40 years.

    Efes does not have a large fan base, imho, because 1: Turkey is a football country, and it's dominated by the three Istanbul clubs, 2-Efes is a company club, and therefore people find it hard to be devoted as much.

    Efes vs others rivalry is weaker, even negligible, compared to Oly-PAO, Real-Barca, CZ-Partizan, etc simply because all the others do have football branches, and the rivalry is carried over.
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  7. #107
    Senior Member Tevfik1907's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    I don't want to derail the topic, which is not going anywhere anyway, but I object to his commonly expressed claim (as you surely guessed ): Majority of important bball personalities in Turkey today, including those considered the pillars of clubs like Fener, or the TBF, or the ones played in the NBA, was once a part of Efes Pilsen, which was, and is to a lesser extent today, the country's player factory with its infrastructure. This cannot be just a hobby or commercial tool of a rich guy. It's been important for commercial purposes, but it has passed so much beyond for over the 40 years.

    Efes does not have a large fan base, imho, because 1: Turkey is a football country, and it's dominated by the three Istanbul clubs, 2-Efes is a company club, and therefore people find it hard to be devoted as much.

    Efes vs others rivalry is weaker, even negligible, compared to Oly-PAO, Real-Barca, CZ-Partizan, etc simply because all the others do have football branches, and the rivalry is carried over.
    Spain is a football country too, I don't think that's a problem.

    If Efes went to any city in Turkey other than İstanbul, and build a basketball saloon there they could've been much more successful at creating a fanbase, and to do that is very easy considering the large budget of Efes. Just look at Banvit, or Tofaş.

    Maybe İzmir couldn't be done due to Pınar Karşıyaka, but Efes's company has several fabricates in other cities such as Afyon, Konya and Bilecik. They could've chosen one of them, and create a very strong fanbase in there. Instead they chose to stay in the same city with FB, GS and BJK.
    Last edited by Tevfik1907; 02-20-2019 at 12:34 AM.
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  8. #108
    Senior Member markkanen's Avatar
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    Tevfik1907 and Levenspiel - thanks for the answers. I suppose that, because Istanbul is the biggest city in Turkey, it's attractive for business people and big companies to spend money there. So, you have your biggest city and big3 supporters there, and other cities without that much big3 supporters, but I guess it's a little bit difficult to have a successful basketball club, to have Euroleague club even in Ankara or Trabzon.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Tevfik1907's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markkanen View Post
    Tevfik1907 and Levenspiel - thanks for the answers. I suppose that, because Istanbul is the biggest city in Turkey, it's attractive for business people and big companies to spend money there. So, you have your biggest city and big3 supporters there, and other cities without that much big3 supporters, but I guess it's a little bit difficult to have a successful basketball club, to have Euroleague club even in Ankara or Trabzon.
    Trabzon is a new big city (metropolitan) in Turkey, there are other 30 metropolitan cities in Turkey, like Konya, Kayseri or Gaziantep, Antalya, Bursa, Balıkesir, Kocaeli etc. these cities are more crowded than Trabzon. In fact, these cities are even more crowded than some cities in Europe. If cities like Vitoria or Canaria Islands creates a better fanbase than Efes, then the problem is with Efes's management.

    Tofaş is from Bursa, and Banvit is from Balıkesir, they have no supporters problem at home. Efes could easily do that too if they wanted. But somehow they believed they can create a fanbase in İstanbul against the 3 oldest and biggest clubs in Turkey, it's their fault I would say, it's not the problem of sports fan in Turkey. FB, GS, BJK had no problem with basketball supporters in home games, only Efes has because of the reasons I said.
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  10. #110
    Senior Member markkanen's Avatar
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    But, on the other hand, only clubs from Turkey that participated in euroleague in past are the ones from Istanbul. Ulker, Efes Pilsen (now Anadolu Efes), Galatasaray, Fenerbahce, Darussafaka and Besiktas. And one time there is Pinar Karsiyaka there, but that's only once. So, money and power are clearly in Istanbul.

  11. #111
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    is it true that PAO said they will withdraw from the league if Oly game at the end of this month is officiated by foreign refs (as per Oly's request)?
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  12. #112
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    -6 For Oly for not playing league game vs PAO.

    They have an ongoing appeal for the -6 they received in the cup game. They are appealing the punishment should only be -1.

    Oly now are placed in 7th place.
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