Olympiacos forfeited game vs PAO in the Greek Cup

[paspalj]

So what about your 2 championships in the past 4 years?

[Nireus]

So what about your 2 championships in the past 4 years?

What about them?

Is it really logical the score in domestic championships from 2000 till today to be....15-3?
I mean, really?

[Levenspiel]

you are right. unlike greek basketball clubs which has strong ties with their football counterparts, turkish basketball clubs are mostly corporate clubs or municipal/local authority clubs lacking fan base. we don't see football grudges or problems effecting basketball that much. If we were to compare the Pao vs Oly situation we had to have something like FB vs GS on other hands.

criticizations and outbursts like Ataman did are mostly caused by the fact that Efes having no fan support and being vulnerable to biased refereeing when they play against big clubs (not big bball clubs necessarily, big Turkish clubs,the big 3). 2 years ago Efes owner Özilhan took the team off the court during a play off match against Beşiktaş. And they were right, the refs were butchering them. I can fairly say that Beşiktaş was favored by refs that year. But Efes only complains when they play against us, Beşiktaş or Galatasaray...teams with fan support. They are dead silent when they play against other lesser corporate clubs.

another correction/clarification: Efes owner did pull the team out of the court, but they returned to the court a few minutes later.

the only case comparable to Oly-Pao incident is the GS-Fener final a few years ago, where GS did not even step on the court for the last game of the title game (while the series was tied 2-2).

[vivo]

another correction/clarification: Efes owner did pull the team out of the court, but they returned to the court a few minutes later.

the only case comparable to Oly-Pao incident is the GS-Fener final a few years ago, where GS did not even step on the court for the last game of the title game (while the series was tied 2-2).

One correction, it was 3-3. GS (Ataman) didn't play the game because of a single call at the end of 2nd game (McCalebb stealing the ball from Markoishvili but hitting his hand iirc) where we beat them at home afterwards. They played the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th game but didn't attend the 7th game, which I'm sure had nothing to do with the fact that Ataman knew they would lose.

[drskull]

another correction/clarification: Efes owner did pull the team out of the court, but they returned to the court a few minutes later.

yes. sorry for leaving that important part out even though I loosely mentioned about teams coming back to court or not showing up at all in a prior post. we, turkish, all know efes returned from the locker room. other people may not know that.

[Levenspiel]

One correction, it was 3-3. GS (Ataman) didn't play the game because of a single call at the end of 2nd game (McCalebb stealing the ball from Markoishvili but hitting his hand iirc) where we beat them at home afterwards. They played the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th game but didn't attend the 7th game, which I'm sure had nothing to do with the fact that Ataman knew they would lose.

got it, thank you for the correction.
I don't know if Ataman ever made logical comments or acted reasonably. No one can know the result of game, esp the freaking 7th game, without even playing. GS acted stupidly, and gained absolutely nothing in return.

I suspect Oly may gain a bit more than GS did, in this case.

yes. sorry for leaving that important part out even though I loosely mentioned about teams coming back to court or not showing up at all in a prior post. we, turkish, all know efes returned from the locker room. other people may not know that.

No worries. exactly, the other people may not know. Cheers.

[paspalj]

What about them?

Is it really logical the score in domestic championships from 2000 till today to be....15-3?
I mean, really?

So you are including the years that you lost to PAOK in the semis (1), you lost to AEK in the final (2), and the 3 years that you struggled to get to the top8 (5)? And the 4 times you had home-court advantage (9)?

Ok, man. Whatever suits you. Good luck.

[Nireus]

So you are including the years that you lost to PAOK in the semis (1), you lost to AEK in the final (2), and the 3 years that you struggled to get to the top8 (5)? And the 4 times you had home-court advantage (9)?

Ok, man. Whatever suits you. Good luck.

Yes, why not?

I remember specifically one of the most appalling refereeing that occurred in Patisia, for the playoffs when oly was 8th in the regular and pao 1st.

You are under the impression that we forget. But we do not. And now it's time to settle the account.

[Adon]

Yes, why not?

I remember specifically one of the most appalling refereeing that occurred in Patisia, for the playoffs when oly was 8th in the regular and pao 1st.

Another deserved championship, another robbery. It gets better and better

[Nireus]

Another deserved championship, another robbery. It gets better and better

Is there any law that forbids the 8th team to beat the 1st in the playoffs?

Oh wait. There is. In Greece.

Indeed it gets better and better. Pao-opap fans are showing their true colours that look suspiciously like dpg's.

[childress67]

Is there any law that forbids the 8th team to beat the 1st in the playoffs?

Oh wait. There is. In Greece.

Indeed it gets better and better. Pao-opap fans are showing their true colours that look suspiciously like dpg's.

Yes this law exists..paok-pao 70-67 3:30 before the end...goss fouled in his 3point shot..no one saw it..but they saw after that 2 fouls on papapetrou and calathes.. refs are always there for Pao when pao need it..

[Adon]

Is there any law that forbids the 8th team to beat the 1st in the playoffs?

Oh wait. There is. In Greece. .

Is there any law that forbids one of the greatest clubs in European bball to lead with 17 -8 championships against your team since 1992?
Oh wait. There is. In oly fans mind, you should have more or at least the same if there is any justice in this world.

Anyway, you missed the point. I'll explain.
When you try to create impressions as the "wronged one", the example -in the season in which oly had finished 8th while pao had finished 1st- doesn't help your cause. I hope you can understand why.

Indeed it gets better and better. Pao-opap fans are showing their true colours that look suspiciously like dpg's.

...and the same old refrain when you don't like what you read.

[Nireus]

Is there any law that forbids one of the greatest clubs in European bball to lead with 17 -8 championships against your team since 1992?
Oh wait. There is. In oly fans mind, you should have more or at least the same if there is any justice in this world.

Anyway, you missed the point. I'll explain.
When you try to create impressions as the "wronged one", the example -in the season in which oly had finished 8th while pao had finished 1st- doesn't help your cause. I hope you can understand why.




...and the same old refrain when you don't like what you read.

It has been quite a long time since pao-opap was considered one of the greatest clubs in European bball. But that hasn't stopped him ''winning'' the domestic titles

It does actually but I am not surprised that you don't get it.
Years and years of favouritism tend to do that to people.

Not my fault that you guys sound like dpg

[markkanen]

you are right. unlike greek basketball clubs which has strong ties with their football counterparts, turkish basketball clubs are mostly corporate clubs or municipal/local authority clubs lacking fan base. we don't see football grudges or problems effecting basketball that much. If we were to compare the Pao vs Oly situation we had to have something like FB vs GS on other hands.

criticizations and outbursts like Ataman did are mostly caused by the fact that Efes having no fan support and being vulnerable to biased refereeing when they play against big clubs (not big bball clubs necessarily, big Turkish clubs,the big 3). 2 years ago Efes owner Özilhan took the team off the court during a play off match against Beşiktaş. And they were right, the refs were butchering them. I can fairly say that Beşiktaş was favored by refs that year. But Efes only complains when they play against us, Beşiktaş or Galatasaray...teams with fan support. They are dead silent when they play against other lesser corporate clubs.

I'm sorry for interrupting, but I have to ask ... There is a couple of millions of Turkish citizens (at least) who watch the basketball, and Efes Pilsen (now Anadolu Efes) is a successful team many years in the past and now, and yet they don't have a strong fan base. Why is that?

I mean, are there only GS, FB and BJK fans in Turkey or what?

[Tevfik1907]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but I have to ask ... There is a couple of millions of Turkish citizens (at least) who watch the basketball, and Efes Pilsen (now Anadolu Efes) is a successful team many years in the past and now, and yet they don't have a strong fan base. Why is that?

I mean, are there only GS, FB and BJK fans in Turkey or what?

There are many reasons for that. I will tell you a couple ;

1- Efes is a new club in comparison with FB, GS and BJK. Efes has been established only for more than 30 years (1976). FB, GS, BJK are very very old (1903-1907) that even older than Turkish Republic which was in 1923.

2- Efes has been established at İstanbul, and they didn't change their location since 1976. That was a big problem since İstanbul has already 3 traditional gigantic sports clubs in İstanbul, and it's really really hard to compete and steal supporters from them in that city. I would say even FB and GS are too much for 1 city, and we've also BJK which makes it even more crowded in terms of sports club supporters in İstanbul, Efes couldn't compete with them in the same city, even when they were more successful.

3- They also didn't even build a simple basketball court for years in İstanbul. They played at Abdi İpekçi Arena and then Sinan Erdem Arena for years, which was not a place that special to Efes, they were only hiring the saloon just like Fener, GS and BJK did in the past. This also prevented them to create a special fanbase for Efes while those 3 gigantic club supporters were also in the same saloon and in the same city. And then BJK build their own compact saloon (Akatlar Arena) and then Fenerbahçe build even a greater basketball saloon (Ülker Arena) for his own supporters only. And Efes is still hiring a basketball saloon (Sinan Erdem) from the sports ministry, and still not building one.

Efes's main goal is making their own commercial when you think about all these reasons. If Ozhilhan (founder of Efes) really cared about creating a fan base and creating a traditional basketball club that will continue even after his death, he would carry the team from İstanbul to another city, and he would build a basketball saloon special to Efes only. But he did none of that, since the main reason is making the Efes commercials by being a sponsor to the Euroleague, not saying he doesn't like basketball, obviously he does, but that's seems like his hobby only and he doesn't care about the rest.