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Thread: Best Twin Towers of 2019 WC

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    I've been very impressed with Sabonis and JV since the allstar break. JV looks reinvigorated and finally used properly after the trade to Memphis. He has been a beast inside.
    However, it seems clear both are most effective closest to the hoop and I wonder how they would play together for Lithuania. Can any of my Lithuanian friends here share their thoughts? Or any others...
    It's no secret Sabonis feels best at 5, but he does play a little bit 4 for Indiana as well. His mid range jumper is solid these days, he established nice p'n'p game which never were seen as one of his main weapons. Can JV and Sabonis due work well for entire tournament? We'll see, it worked fine for few games in FIBA qualification, but it was a second tier opposition. Since Gudaitis is out, Sabonis will play 4 with JV and will be moved to 5 when JV will hit the bench. JV showed some improvement regarding passing and reading double team defence, so that's good. I think they will be a force, specially offensively, but I hope our coach won't hesitate to separate them when it won't be working. Honestly, Sabonis is the machine at 5. He can put the same numbers as JV in terms of scoring and rebounding and yet he does everything else - quick and perfect game reading, permanent screening, moving the ball, assisting, facilitating, filling the gaps. The way I see it, it's Sabonis that you want to build the team around, but I hope JV and Sabonis due will work fine. If only we had D-Mo, I would be very optimistic about our frontline. In reality we will use Kuzminskas as 4 and even Maciulis for defensive reasons.

    Here's JV and Sabonis dominating against Poland:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3lYKjTShO0
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    It's no secret Sabonis feels best at 5, but he does play a little bit 4 for Indiana as well. His mid range jumper is solid these days, he established nice p'n'p game which never were seen as one of his main weapons. Can JV and Sabonis due work well for entire tournament? We'll see, it worked fine for few games in FIBA qualification, but it was a second tier opposition. Since Gudaitis is out, Sabonis will play 4 with JV and will be moved to 5 when JV will hit the bench. JV showed some improvement regarding passing and reading double team defence, so that's good. I think they will be a force, specially offensively, but I hope our coach won't hesitate to separate them when it won't be working. Honestly, Sabonis is the machine at 5. He can put the same numbers as JV in terms of scoring and rebounding and yet he does everything else - quick and perfect game reading, permanent screening, moving the ball, assisting, facilitating, filling the gaps. The way I see it, it's Sabonis that you want to build the team around, but I hope JV and Sabonis due will work fine. If only we had D-Mo, I would be very optimistic about our frontline. In reality we will use Kuzminskas as 4 and even Maciulis for defensive reasons.

    Here's JV and Sabonis dominating against Poland: Youjizz Pornhub Tubegalore

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3lYKjTShO0
    Dominican Republic with Horford and Karl Anthony Towns could be as good as any country. Also I think Kelly Olynyk is underrated as a FIBA big. Excellent shooting and passing and an underrated defender (I sort of see him as Jokic-light and could pair off Jamal Murray quite well). Paired with Tristan Thompson could be quite interesting as an active, running crashing bigman Kenneth Faried circa 2014 WC. Honestly Dwight Powell may be even better and is a fairly elite rim runner in the NBA (I wish JJ Barrea was Canadian (and healthly) as they are a deadly pairing for the Mavs. I think Canada's bigs would at least be better than your #5 of Zubac/Saric (but that 's my own homer alert).

  3. #23

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    Don't forget Vučević-Dubljević duo. It didn't go well in Eurobasket 2017, but this time both of them have gotten better and Montenegro has a good coach now (not that Tanjević was bad, but he was too old at the time and couldn't handle the team). I can definitely see them lead Montenegro past Brazil and New Zealand to the second group stage.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodrigue Beaubois View Post
    Don't forget Vučević-Dubljević duo. It didn't go well in Eurobasket 2017, but this time both of them have gotten better and Montenegro has a good coach now (not that Tanjević was bad, but he was too old at the time and couldn't handle the team). I can definitely see them lead Montenegro past Brazil and New Zealand to the second group stage.
    Greece is also possible. With Dub and Vuc you should be able to overpower an 36 year old Bourousis easily and Papagiannis is way too soft. Needam is a good shooter, Ivanovic brings enough energy, Milko Bjelica should also give good 10 minutes. Just Djurisic is trash but ok.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Greece is also possible. With Dub and Vuc you should be able to overpower an 36 year old Bourousis easily and Papagiannis is way too soft. Needam is a good shooter, Ivanovic brings enough energy, Milko Bjelica should also give good 10 minutes. Just Djurisic is trash but ok.
    Well, I wouldn't go that far. It is a mystery what Ivanović can do, because he comes from a serious injury. Without him at 100% percent, it will be very hard, since he is the only good pass first guard in the team, Needham is a pure scorer. Not to mention the dreadful bench. It's not impossible, but Greece has much more options.
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    One of the twins of Serbia is preparing seriously for the WC.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B0lE4MGo...d=ngqnird54sh4

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    One of the twins of Serbia is preparing seriously for the WC.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B0lE4MGo...d=ngqnird54sh4
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    H group twin tower battles will be fun to see:

    Australia Bogut,Baynes
    Lithuania Valanciunas,Sabonis
    Senegal Deng and 2m31 Tacko Fall

    all of them true twin towers 6 NBA bigs and really very huge men

    Canada you better bring big and strong bodies too , you will need them in this group.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Australia Bogut,Baynes
    Australia won't play 2 lumberjacks together. Specially with current Bogut. Lithuania can use Sabonis at 4, Australia can't throw any of those lumberjacks at 4.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Australia won't play 2 lumberjacks together. Specially with current Bogut. Lithuania can use Sabonis at 4, Australia can't throw any of those lumberjacks at 4.
    In 2016 played them together alot, but yeah I doubt at this stage of boguts they will repeat that.Neither will Senegal, but my point in that group their will be huuuge bodies inside most of the time.

    Tacko Fall standing reach is 3m11...so if understand correctly he don't need to jump to dunk the ball
    Last edited by Shawshank; 08-01-2019 at 09:29 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    H group twin tower battles will be fun to see:

    Australia Bogut,Baynes
    Lithuania Valanciunas,Sabonis
    Senegal Deng and 2m31 Tacko Fall

    all of them true twin towers 6 NBA bigs and really very huge men

    Canada you better bring big and strong bodies too , you will need them in this group.


    Do we?

    I thought it was established by now that speed and shooting beats size. Valanciunas (the best of those named above) couldn't be kept on the floor in TO against stretch bigs. I am one to believe that Nick Nurse knows just how to exploit Val too.

    Powell/Olynyk (let alone Birch/Lyles) is a better duo than Bogut/Baynes outright, no question. Val/Sabonis is a better duo on paper - but I am not convinced they can play well together (I bow to the Lithuania fans who know better). They at least seem a forced pairing and won't bring out the best in each other. These are locked in the paint bigs with not much outside shooting among them. Further it is not like Val/Sabonis or Bogut/Baynes are much bigger than Olynyk/Powell who are 7'0 and 6'11 and both 240. Baynes is 6'10/260 (the most lumberjack-like), Val and Bogut are both 7'0/260ish and Domas is 6'11/240.

    It'll be interesting to see how these lumberjacks (well said) defend Olynyk and Powell out at the perimeter or in transition or even the PnR. Of course we can get chewed up inside but I think we will be ok with better shooting, spacing, speed, transition and depth among our bigs. And not trying to be cocky - but aren't the guards what drive bball today? I think we are on a different level there with Lithuania and Senegal and I don't think Delladova and Patty Mills are really striking fear into the Canadian guards. I think we have one of the (if not the) best guard core in the tournament behind the USA.
    Last edited by mojo13; 08-01-2019 at 11:23 PM.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    Do we?

    I thought it was established by now that speed and shooting beats size. Valanciunas (the best of those named above) couldn't be kept on the floor in TO against stretch bigs. I am one to believe that Nick Nurse knows just how to exploit Val too.

    Powell/Olynyk (let alone Birch/Lyles) is a better duo than Bogut/Baynes outright, no question. Val/Sabonis is a better duo on paper - but I am not convinced they can play well together (I bow to the Lithuania fans who know better). They at least seem a forced pairing and won't bring out the best in each other. These are locked in the paint bigs with not much outside shooting among them. Further it is not like Val/Sabonis or Bogut/Baynes are much bigger than Olynyk/Powell who are 7'0 and 6'11 and both 240. Baynes is 6'10/260 (the most lumberjack-like), Val and Bogut are both 7'0/260ish and Domas is 6'11/240.

    It'll be interesting to see how these lumberjacks (well said) defend Olynyk and Powell out at the perimeter or in transition or even the PnR. Of course we can get chewed up inside but I think we will be ok with better shooting, spacing, speed, transition and depth among our bigs. And not trying to be cocky - but aren't the guards what drive bball today? I think we are on a different level there with Lithuania and Senegal and I don't think Delladova and Patty Mills are really striking fear into the Canadian guards. I think we have one of the (if not the) best guard core in the tournament behind the USA.
    It's not about the weight it's about toughness, sturdiness, explosiveness. No disrespect bu Olynyk is a sissy compared to say Sabonis at the same weight. Sabonis would eat Olynyk alive in the paint unless I will see proven wrong, but I doubt. I really believe Olynyk won't be as good as you project, but luckily the tournament is soon.

    Again, most of your prised guards have zero fiba ball experience. I can't believe you don't take this for granted. It's not NBA were you can have additional 8 minutes to get your shit together. Tiny court, no three second defensive rule, 40 minutes absolute concentration by the teams like Lithuania, Australia. It's way too soon for Canada to project themselves as true powerhouse, win something ever first.
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  13. #33
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Mojo 13

    I agree usually today speed and shooting beats size.

    But Valanciunas and Sabonis is our plan A, if we gonna see we having problems stopping more mobile teams and aren't able to dominate inside enough, we can go with small and mobile direction with names you are not too familiar like Kuzminskas, Ulanovas, Maciulis they are all more SF,but sometimes we are playing them as Pf and rotate them in different moments depending on matchups and all of them can make seriuos problems for team like Canada that has limited idea who they are,but trust me they are high quality players that have medals in fiba competions under there bells and will not be scared seeing NBA olynyk and other average NBA level players.

    Sabonis, Kuzminskas, Ulanovas/Maciulis is mobile and strong enough to defend any fast frontcourts if it will be needed at some moments.

    But firstly team Canada will have show us can they really handle Valanciunas and Sabonis inside.If you are putting on Sabonis - Olynyk you can be sure we gonna put Domantas inside and feed him the ball, I don't believe Olynyk can handle Sabonis post up game .He will have to prove he can,but I see him getting in faul trouble if he will be doing that.Domantas is still young with fast feet and for Olynyk it won't be so easy to beat him after dribble .

    Canada's NBA guards will have to dominate badly if they will want to beat our smart,tough and experience team.Because front court game of C-Pf-Sf positions Canada is not winning againts us I'm confident about that.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 08-02-2019 at 01:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    It's not about the weight it's about toughness, sturdiness, explosiveness. No disrespect bu Olynyk is a sissy compared to say Sabonis at the same weight. Sabonis would eat Olynyk alive in the paint unless I will see proven wrong, but I doubt. I really believe Olynyk won't be as good as you project, but luckily the tournament is soon.

    Again, most of your prised guards have zero fiba ball experience. I can't believe you don't take this for granted. It's not NBA were you can have additional 8 minutes to get your shit together. Tiny court, no three second defensive rule, 40 minutes absolute concentration by the teams like Lithuania, Australia. It's way too soon for Canada to project themselves as true powerhouse, win something ever first.
    Name one of our guards that has zero FIBA experience.

    Of course they have less experience and no one has World Cup or Olympic experience but all have played FIBA at various youth levels and all for senior team at one time or another. You may not know that Canada domestically abides by FIBA rules so they all grow playing under these rules at some point before the run off to US prep schools. Off the top of my head:
    Cory Joseph - youth, numerous FIBA Americas, WC Qualifiers, 2016 Olympic Qualifier.
    Jamal Murray - youth and PanAms.
    Shai Gilgeous Alexander - youth and 2016 Olympic Qualifier.
    Stauskas - Youth, FIBA Americas
    Pangos - youth, WC Qualifiers, FIBA professional
    Dillon Brooks - youth, WC Qualifiers

    Yeah - it’s not the WC or Olympics, but these guys are not going to be surprised by the rules and game difference. But yes, they are not going to be as adept as Lithuania’s FIBA level guards, but they are way more talented. Any equal question is how often have Lithuania’s guards had to face a 6’6 PG with a 7ft wingspan? For what it is worth Canada has more experience than the USAs guards - albeit are less talented.

    I’m really excited about the match-up and believe the bookies won’t have us as underdogs. But in one game it can easily go either way. This is the beauty of these tournaments - different styles, different collections of talent and how they meld together.

    Yes, Canada has no recent history to rest on and point at, but I am not sure that matters as much. It doesn’t seem to matter much to the book makers, who have all our odds of winning the WC near the same.
    Last edited by mojo13; 08-02-2019 at 03:32 AM.

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    When it comes to the Lithuanian bigs there is a familiarity and there will be no surprises for the Canadian bigs.
    What till the Lithuanian guards get a load of the Canadian guards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    When it comes to the Lithuanian bigs there is a familiarity and there will be no surprises for the Canadian bigs.
    What till the Lithuanian guards get a load of the Canadian guards.
    I sure hope we have them. I still feel we are going to see a couple drop outs before camp starts on Sunday. I’m predicting one of the six above will still get agent pressured out of this thing.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    Name one of our guards that has zero FIBA experience.

    Of course they have less experience and no one has World Cup or Olympic experience but all have played FIBA at various youth levels and all for senior team at one time or another. You may not know that Canada domestically abides by FIBA rules so they all grow playing under these rules at some point before the run off to US prep schools. Off the top of my head:
    Cory Joseph - youth, numerous FIBA Americas, WC Qualifiers, 2016 Olympic Qualifier.
    Jamal Murray - youth and PanAms.
    Shai Gilgeous Alexander - youth and 2016 Olympic Qualifier.
    Stauskas - Youth, FIBA Americas
    Pangos - youth, WC Qualifiers, FIBA professional
    Dillon Brooks - youth, WC Qualifiers

    Yeah - it’s not the WC or Olympics, but these guys are not going to be surprised by the rules and game difference. But yes, they are not going to be as adept as Lithuania’s FIBA level guards, but they are way more talented. Any equal question is how often have Lithuania’s guards had to face a 6’6 PG with a 7ft wingspan? For what it is worth Canada has more experience than the USAs guards - albeit are less talented.
    Well, that's my point. All this experience you named is not real FIBA experience. And it's even worse for Canada that they have been thrown into a fire with the group stage already. It's do or die games from day one. Lithuania and Australia is much more ready mentally for this shit and they've been in these situations many times, absolute majority of our players. That might be as huge advantage as Canada's more talented guards. The pressure does funny things. Another thing, we have absolutely the same core of 2015-2017 and our players know each other very well. Canada is an experiment, they don't have identity, they didn't handle together a single real deal FIBA tournament, they have new coach, they have a puzzle of players. Canada's talent pool is not even close to even current depleted USA roster to name it as transcendent argument. To me it all these aspects play a damn important role. If we had an elite coach as Jasikevicius, under these circumstances I would go 40/60 Lithuania handling this one. Now I would say 45/55 Lithuania because our coach is mediocre, but we are very experienced team so players will fill the gaps with their own decisions. I can feel the pressure even now and I now Lithuania will stay concentrated, disciplined, we'll move the ball we'll be patient, we'll play as tough defensively as it can get at FIBA while Canada's performance level is absolute enigma. You might come and shoot the lights out, you might force some turnovers of our guards and to look really good or you may be struggling to beat Lithuania's defence, taking bad shots, rushing, playing too individually. I know Nick Nurse loves flexible offence and that's good, but again to me Canada is not USA. They won't take it with only talent and hustle. The talent and athleticism is not at that level. So I'm looking forward to how Canada handles the pressure and how their system works.
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  18. #38
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    With all due respect to Lithuania and other teams, if Canadian players can create enough spacing (I know Nick Nurse will go for it) even Jamal Murray can single-handedly win games - he was mostly great in the playoffs considering his age. SGA is a beast too, he'll probably be able to shut down some very good guards. BUT. These are all hypotheticals, we are projecting Canadian players' performance using their NBA performances, and it might not pan out that way at all in a high pressure FIBA setting.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    H group twin tower battles will be fun to see:

    Australia Bogut,Baynes
    Lithuania Valanciunas,Sabonis
    Senegal Deng and 2m31 Tacko Fall

    all of them true twin towers 6 NBA bigs and really very huge men

    Canada you better bring big and strong bodies too , you will need them in this group.
    Both Tacko Fall and Gorgui Dieng declined to join the team for this World Cup (same for 2m21 Youssoupha Fall who said he would prefer to play with France in the future)



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Another thing, we have absolutely the same core of 2015-2017 and our players know each other very well. .
    one thing I have learned over the years is not to underestimate lithuanian team because even if players had a bad season or unimportant role in their team during the year, when they play for NT they give their heart out.
    but who are the young guns for the lithuanian team in the future?
    ulanovas. lekavicius.
    Maciulis, Kalnietis, Jankunas, Seibutis have been with the team for so long that you have a feeling they are older then dinosaurus.
    Last edited by Picek; 08-02-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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