Imho Vesely is only great athlete. If that’s enough for being MVP, the standard of Euroleague is really all time low.
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Vesely is easily the worst center offensively
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Originally posted by Killer Bob View PostImho Vesely is only great athlete. If that’s enough for being MVP, the standard of Euroleague is really all time low.Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
Deli gibi aşığız Fenerbahçe
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Originally posted by truant View PostThis is what happens when you skip the methodology classes. There is a mismatch between the concept operationalized (the offensive quality of centers) and measurement methodology (playing isolation). Yes, for centers playing isolation is used to assses the offfensive quality of a player, its not irony. You would rather expect some combination of passing abilities + scoring abilities + usage of a player in the team plays while on the floor + (maybe) efficiency of playing isolation or you should make your generalizations contingent (such as Vesely is the worst offensive center among the best when it comes to playing isolation). But I guess the combination of these stats would not make Milutinov appear as better than Vesely so lets stick to the efficiency of playing isolation.Dilimde şarkıların gündüz gece
Deli gibi aşığız Fenerbahçe
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Originally posted by truant View PostBut I guess the combination of these stats would not make Milutinov appear as better than Vesely so lets stick to the efficiency of playing isolation.
Two, Milutinov has only just started developing some semblance of an offensive game and many times in the past I've called him useless. If he doesn't get 20-10 tonight against Lasme and Gist, I will be calling him useless again. So the idea that my goal for looking at this was to simply make Milutinov look better is rather odd. I just think that creating shots is an important part of the offence.
Three, I don't care about Fener fans being up in arms and saying that efficiency is best, DeAndre Jordan is GOAT or whatever. Of course efficiency is best, teams should only shoot fast break uncontested layups, what a concept!
The point is that team can't create super-efficient shots, ie assisted dunks, on every play, which is why you want your players to be able to make something out of nothing.
Players that have a harder time doing that, like De Colo in the guard position or Vesely in the center position are also players with subpar F4 performances when compared to their usual standards. Is that a coincidence?
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Originally posted by kzav View PostI don't agree with the conclusion either but it is still an interesting stat which obviously as you say doesn't give the whole picture.
Numbers never do. That doesn't make his attempt to indicate a relative area for Veselys improvement pathetic.
If anything, it is true that he creates less for himself than Davies. Whether that makes him better or worse overall is impossible to judge firstly because they don't play for the same team but the first statement remains a fact.
Don't get so angry, happy New year!
As i explained all weaknesses of this bull-shit opinion , only ratio means nothing. Vesely could score without getting assist but also score with asssisy more efficiently. He and Fener prefer to be more efficient. We are dominating the league for a raeason.
Also he alreadyscored more points without service than some other top centers but according to this stupid opinion his ratio is highet and he is worse.
According to him a player who has 300 points with 80 service is worse than a players 100 points 20 service. Becuse his ratio is higher. This is not data-based opiniom this is trolling. His ass still sore of Fener's kick
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Originally posted by Killer Bob View PostImho Vesely is only great athlete. If that’s enough for being MVP, the standard of Euroleague is really all time low.
But let's not forget your great objective analysis, the day you said Vesely can't pass, he made 7 assists against Panathinaikos.FENERBAHÇE--- 1967, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2019, 2020 Turkish Basketball Cup Champion ---
--- 1991, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2022 Turkish Basketball League Champion ---
--- 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019 Euroleague Final Four ---
--- 2017 Euroleague Champion ---
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Originally posted by Tevfik1907 View PostI guess NBA is really low then.
But let's not forget your great objective analysis, the day you said Vesely can't pass, he made 7 assists against Panathinaikos.
I don't think anyone says Vesely is a bad player so I don't get the frustration. Unless you all think Vesely has no weaknesses and is the best player ever.
Bourousis is a far better player offensively and in ball distribution for instance."Fans never fall asleep at our games, because they're afraid they might get hit by a pass." —George Raveling
"If I weren’t earning $3 million a year to dunk a basketball, most people on the street would run in the other direction if they saw me coming."—Charles Barkley
"You are really funny thinking that you will be the ones to kick PANATHINAIKOS out of euroleague. We will do it ourselves." - saras (not the player )
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This statistics is great only for backcourt players from which is expected to make their own shoots and to share assists.
Ratio assisted shoots/total point is problematic too because there are players that most of the points make from shooting for 3pt.
More usefull parameter could be for instance assisted shoots/assists ratio, which show the exact involment of the player in the game.
In that aspect Vesely is top player among centers in the EL.
Guduric is very good too and that is one of the reasons for better performance of the whole team this season.
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Originally posted by vivo View PostOther 15 teams are fucking stupid for not bringing in a greater athlete from the States then... There should be hundreds of athletes better than Vesely all over the world, if that is his only quality.previously known as Beno
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Originally posted by markkanen View PostAgree. The right title should be: "Vesely isn't the best center offensively".
No player is perfect. If one has the time, he can probably find some stat that shows Jordan was the worst among top 5 guards of his time.5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.
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Let's see the FT percentage of the better offensive centers according to this Oly_fan;
Brandon Davies: 78/107 - %72.9
Nikola Milutinov: 37/50 - %74
Gustavo Ayon: 11/19 - %57.9
Arturas Gudaitis: 86/107 - %80.4
Tornike Shengelia: 47/78 - %60.3
Vincent Poirier: 29/39 - %74.4
Let's see the MVP candidate but also ''the worst offensive center''s FT percentage on this season;
Jan Vesely: 67/79 - %84.8
Hey look, the ''worst offensive center'' has the best offensive statistic ...
Let's see the another statistic, if they can pass offensively;
Vincent Poirier: 16 games 16 assists; 1 assist per game
Tornike Shengelia: 15 games 30 assists; 2 assists per game
Brandon Davies : 16 games 33 assists; 2.1 assists per game
Nikola Milutinov: 16 games 25 assists; 1.6 assists per game
Arturas Gudaitis: 16 games 7 assists; 0.4 assists per game
Let's see the worst offensive center's offensive passing ability;
Jan Vesely: 15 games 41 assists; 2.7 assists per game
Something is not rightLast edited by Tevfik1907; 01-05-2019, 05:22 AM.FENERBAHÇE--- 1967, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2019, 2020 Turkish Basketball Cup Champion ---
--- 1991, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2022 Turkish Basketball League Champion ---
--- 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019 Euroleague Final Four ---
--- 2017 Euroleague Champion ---
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Originally posted by Killer Bob View PostGood FT% makes Vesely very efficient player, not offensive juggernaut.
About assisting. Make the wild guess, who has the best 3 points % in Euroleague? And then ask yourself, how is that connected with Vesely’s having good assists numbers.
Guduric use assists from Vesely if that is your point? It's not true.
Vesely gave just 3 assists to Guduric this season, but Guduric feed Vesely with 13 assists which wasn't case last season.
Vesely had 9 assists from Nunnally the whole last season(35 games) In the same time Vesely gave 8 assists to Nunnaly. Is that normal that center and guard have the same number of assists to each other?
13 assists already from Guduric this season(16 games). Which means that Guduric Assists to Vesely three times more then player who had bigger role then him last season.
That is why Fener dominate this season, all players help each other to have better numbers. There are no more selfish and limited Americans in the roster.
Vesely is the same player from last season with just a little bit better ft percentage, he was the best center last season too but he had limited players around him
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