Page 3 of 30 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 594

Thread: 2019 PBA All Filipino Cup

  1. #41
    Senior Member reamily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    22,403

    Default

    We arent doing the step to immediately cleanse it but force them eventually after public clamor. imagine theres a salary floor in pba of 27 million a year so kia has to pay on the average of 150 k a month for a 15 man roster...and thats salary floor..People can counter that theres win game bonus import pay, thats why pba needs to transparent so that some rumors can be validated to facts.

    For One JP erram is a pba mythical selection.. in nba a guy who become an all nba team has a luxury of putting a higher maximum pay... in pba they can easily rule that if erram is traded to another team he cannot take a pay cut just to make him fit to the "hard cap implemented " by pba you have to match his salary..As a restricted fa.. erram will receive max and if he is traded it will count on the hard cap of the team...
    To becomes Asia's Best, we need to compete against the World's Best..

  2. #42
    Senior Member Jay P. Mercado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reamily View Post
    We arent doing the step to immediately cleanse it but force them eventually after public clamor. imagine theres a salary floor in pba of 27 million a year so kia has to pay on the average of 150 k a month for a 15 man roster...and thats salary floor..People can counter that theres win game bonus import pay, thats why pba needs to transparent so that some rumors can be validated to facts.

    For One JP erram is a pba mythical selection.. in nba a guy who become an all nba team has a luxury of putting a higher maximum pay... in pba they can easily rule that if erram is traded to another team he cannot take a pay cut just to make him fit to the "hard cap implemented " by pba you have to match his salary..As a restricted fa.. erram will receive max and if he is traded it will count on the hard cap of the team...
    You can put in all the rules that you like pertaining to salaries - make these even more stringent than the NBA's - but ultimately, the final decision rests with the very parties who violate these...

    It's not like the salary cap / floor issue is only being discussed now. It's been around dating back the early 90's when Alvin Patrimonio received a multi-million peso contract worth P21M for 2.5 years at P500k a month. It was further reinforced when Tanduay gave Danny Ildefonso a P96M, 16-year contract in 2001. One can conclude that what Bong Tan did was to test the limits of the PBA rules, just like what you're proposing. In the end, Jun Bernardino revoked the offer sheet given...

  3. #43
    Senior Member reamily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    22,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay P. Mercado View Post
    You can put in all the rules that you like pertaining to salaries - make these even more stringent than the NBA's - but ultimately, the final decision rests with the very parties who violate these...

    It's not like the salary cap / floor issue is only being discussed now. It's been around dating back the early 90's when Alvin Patrimonio received a multi-million peso contract worth P21M for 2.5 years at P500k a month. It was further reinforced when Tanduay gave Danny Ildefonso a P96M, 16-year contract in 2001. One can conclude that what Bong Tan did was to test the limits of the PBA rules, just like what you're proposing. In the end, Jun Bernardino revoked the offer sheet given...
    But again all of these news were in pre internet era.. now information must be easily be accessible by the fans...

    And that Danny Ildefonso contract if happened in the social media era.. Jun Bernandino woould be accused of protecting smc's interest on finding loopholes on the danny ildefonso contract..
    To becomes Asia's Best, we need to compete against the World's Best..

  4. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    558

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    I really have no interest on putting people down, I don't t believe on that at all so that's not the intent, hoops is for everyone who enjoys the game and shoud be promoted but I do think there is a certain standard required to play to be a full time professional and 6 foot forwards isn't really of a minimum standard
    College sports is different as they're there for the education
    Is there any league that has a standard on only allowing certain height to play a certain position or a league disallowing a player because of its height. Even in the NBA today, no such rule o standard exists.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Jay P. Mercado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reamily View Post
    But again all of these news were in pre internet era.. now information must be easily be accessible by the fans...

    And that Danny Ildefonso contract if happened in the social media era.. Jun Bernandino woould be accused of protecting smc's interest on finding loopholes on the danny ildefonso contract..
    You can clutch on thin straws and hope that this would work. But this is an entirely different problem - even worse or complicated than the trading of marquee players for crumbs or "protect the bigs" rule. If you use this as basis, then the other rule won't fly when it can easily be dispensed with by using the factors that were mentioned earlier, plus more.

  6. #46
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    15,049

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    Is there any league that has a standard on only allowing certain height to play a certain position or a league disallowing a player because of its height. Even in the NBA today, no such rule o standard exists.
    You're missing my point, I would never suggest legislating a rule whether that be a mimimum or maximum hight (BTW the PBA has a maximum height for imports).
    My point is the over.commercialism of basketball in the Philippines to the detriment of people have a false sense of security that the sport will give them livlyhood at the expense of developing regular careers. If for example the MPBL is convincing college players to drop out to play professionaly, I'm in disagreement with that if that was the case (I'm not saying that the case I'm just using it as an illustration of the dangers of over.commercialism)
    For. Basketball if the countries private resources all go to funding 12 PBA teams at the expense of very little being left.for other sports and especially if the quality level is way below world class completion (6 foot forwards and 6 3 big men) and your paying them.300,000 pesos a. Month for that level, while a medal contender.for another sport can't even get. 100,000.support.a.month and he's the only contender is the sport, then I will say indeed there is misuse of our private resources and funds and over. Commercialism

  7. #47
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    15,049

    Default

    The problem of hoops in the Philippines is liga na liga tayo, (one pay for play league is starting after another) there is no lacking of participation especially with publicity and commercialism, yet the money allocated to real basketball development (honest to goodness academy style development) is very very scarce and limited. That is indeed a problem and a flaw. Yes it is an issue and it does matter and is of importance.

    We really don't need more leagues or more paid professional basketball players, that money is better used elsewhere. In fact I have no issues if the top players even get paid more if there world class competitors
    Or Batang Gilas , and train equivalent to a 24 man pool fully funded, now that well use of funds
    Think about it why would you fund a. Fake PBA team like Kia if the. Money could be use for Batang Gilas
    Last edited by analyzed; 01-15-2019 at 07:51 AM.
    NBTC- Team New Zealand - Camp David: vision "To provide a basketball Pathway for Filipino Kids in NZ while building men of character and leadership. I can do all things ...
    https://www.facebook.com/teamNZBasketball/

  8. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    340
    Country: Philippines

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    I really have no interest on putting people down, I don't t believe on that at all so that's not the intent, hoops is for everyone who enjoys the game and shoud be promoted but I do think there is a certain standard required to play to be a full time professional and 6 foot forwards isn't really of a minimum standard
    College sports is different as they're there for the education
    The unfortunate part about this is coaches will always prefer undersized skilled players over the tall ones with limited skill in w/c you can't blame them.
    Last edited by bluenote49; 01-15-2019 at 08:15 AM.

  9. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    340
    Country: Philippines

    Default

    * double post sorry

  10. #50
    Senior Member reamily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    22,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay P. Mercado View Post
    You can clutch on thin straws and hope that this would work. But this is an entirely different problem - even worse or complicated than the trading of marquee players for crumbs or "protect the bigs" rule. If you use this as basis, then the other rule won't fly when it can easily be dispensed with by using the factors that were mentioned earlier, plus more.
    Big things start from small beginnings, every successful journey begins in one step. And if there is a animosity between pba reform and pba leaders then its like a chess match you cant win if you do not initiate the first move.

    Notice how much pba spent on a Parokya ni Edgar concert just to entice pba audience to watch a Ginebra game? Its like Willie Marcial still doesnt't get it or in better term in self denial that a little transparency is needed for the league, notice how pba is so much in detail when it comes to dealing fines but not in details when star player one renews or sign his contract.
    To becomes Asia's Best, we need to compete against the World's Best..

  11. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reamily View Post
    notice how much pba spent on a Parokya ni Edgar concert just to entice pba audience to watch a Ginebra game? Its like Willie Marcial still doesnt't get it or in better term in self denial that a little transparency is needed for the league, notice how pba is so much in detail when it comes to dealing fines but not in details when star player one renews or sign his contract.
    The current commissioner is way out of his element. Hed rather showbizize the league than fix its persistent problems. He potentially is another yesman for the moneyed franchises.

  12. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    558

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    You're missing my point, I would never suggest legislating a rule whether that be a mimimum or maximum hight (BTW the PBA has a maximum height for imports).
    My point is the over.commercialism of basketball in the Philippines to the detriment of people have a false sense of security that the sport will give them livlyhood at the expense of developing regular careers. If for example the MPBL is convincing college players to drop out to play professionaly, I'm in disagreement with that if that was the case (I'm not saying that the case I'm just using it as an illustration of the dangers of over.commercialism)
    For. Basketball if the countries private resources all go to funding 12 PBA teams at the expense of very little being left.for other sports and especially if the quality level is way below world class completion (6 foot forwards and 6 3 big men) and your paying them.300,000 pesos a. Month for that level, while a medal contender.for another sport can't even get. 100,000.support.a.month and he's the only contender is the sport, then I will say indeed there is misuse of our private resources and funds and over. Commercialism
    Let me answer this point by point

    1. "You're missing my point". I was reacting to your first post in this thread and it wasn't about over commercialism. Look over again your post, you never mention it and more so you just said that players should just have other careers if they are 6 foot forward and basketball is not sustainable career. I agree they should pursue their education and even have a master degree but I will not stop them from playing basketball as a living as long as it is a viable source of income. Most of them know that basketball is not a long term career like corporate jobs. I mean in this age of information, they will know after 35 years old they will either be a coach or have a different job for the rest of their lives.

    2. Based on my research, most countries with similar GDP, % of rich, middle class or poor like in the Philippines usually have just one major team sports. Like Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia who have only football as a prime time team sport. While US, Germany will have multiple team sports on their prime time.

    3. Basketball is the most watched sport in Philippines because of the love of the people, which make companies want to have a team or advertise their products because people will watch it. This is just economics. I also wish some big companies will pool their fund to support other sports but they are businesses. They what something in return for their investment. Look at football, unfortunately people didn't show too much support. The companies eventually pulled out of them. Again return on investment, economics. Why don't you try to support a sport and let see if its worth it if you don't see a return on investment (not only in monetary value). ROI is a reality, unless government will support the sports. Government is not after the ROI so much.

    4. My point is we can't just tell audiences what sport to support. The love of the sport should be organic and not force. Only professional leagues that can support men in this country are basketball leagues.

  13. #53
    Senior Member reamily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    22,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crenshaw View Post
    The current commissioner is way out of his element. Hed rather showbizize the league than fix its persistent problems. He potentially is another yesman for the moneyed franchises.
    cant blame the guy as he is at mercy if this 2 empires..what makes you a good kume us for you to revolutionize the league and tiptoing the thin line if being at mercy to the three kind of pba stakeholders..
    Last edited by reamily; 01-15-2019 at 01:11 PM.
    To becomes Asia's Best, we need to compete against the World's Best..

  14. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,576

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reamily View Post
    cant blame the guy as he is at mercy if this 2 empires..what makes you a good kume us for you to revolutionize the league and tiptoing the thin line if being at mercy to the three kind of pba stakeholders..
    God I miss Jun Bernardino

  15. #55
    Senior Member reamily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    22,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CoJ View Post
    God I miss Jun Bernardino
    History has been very kind to the bernandino's but on how he treated tanduay, he is lucky to leave in pre internet/social media age..
    To becomes Asia's Best, we need to compete against the World's Best..

  16. #56
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    15,049

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    Let me answer this point by point

    1. "You're missing my point". I was reacting to your first post in this thread and it wasn't about over commercialism. Look over again your post, you never mention it and more so you just said that players should just have other careers if they are 6 foot forward and basketball is not sustainable career. I agree they should pursue their education and even have a master degree but I will not stop them from playing basketball as a living as long as it is a viable source of income. Most of them know that basketball is not a long term career like corporate jobs. I mean in this age of information, they will know after 35 years old they will either be a coach or have a different job for the rest of their lives.

    2. Based on my research, most countries with similar GDP, % of rich, middle class or poor like in the Philippines usually have just one major team sports. Like Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia who have only football as a prime time team sport. While US, Germany will have multiple team sports on their prime time.

    3. Basketball is the most watched sport in Philippines because of the love of the people, which make companies want to have a team or advertise their products because people will watch it. This is just economics. I also wish some big companies will pool their fund to support other sports but they are businesses. They what something in return for their investment. Look at football, unfortunately people didn't show too much support. The companies eventually pulled out of them. Again return on investment, economics. Why don't you try to support a sport and let see if its worth it if you don't see a return on investment (not only in monetary value). ROI is a reality, unless government will support the sports. Government is not after the ROI so much.

    4. My point is we can't just tell audiences what sport to support. The love of the sport should be organic and not force. Only professional leagues that can support men in this country are basketball leagues.
    1. Without saying it directly resorting to having to pay full time salaries over 300k a month and running an expensive PBA frachice with 6 foot forwards is a result of over commercialism. (it's money not well spent)

    2. It's not just about putting money into other sports but it's also about channeling the money where it matters most in the sport of basketball ( grass roots development) over so called liga labas or MPBL or whatever on grown men rather than honest youth development that can use the money to better use . Can't Batang Gilas or high school basketball draw crowds? It can still be an avenue for decent return of investment. look Cooks to Go is sponsoring all these youth and grass roots stuff and the national team aren't they spending their money with good return of investment rather than putting all their money to run a PBA team. ( i think a PBA team actually cost more and I don't thin Kia for example or whatever there name is get's as good media milage or return on investment as Cooks to Go, SM is another company that puts money into basketball that reaps better dividents in things that really matter ( youth developement and education)
    NBTC- Team New Zealand - Camp David: vision "To provide a basketball Pathway for Filipino Kids in NZ while building men of character and leadership. I can do all things ...
    https://www.facebook.com/teamNZBasketball/

  17. #57
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    15,049

    Default

    BTW the UAAP games and broadcast really are good investments , they get good returns to have more programmes ( schools) that are well funded and even bringing it to high school competition and all the international youth representation I'm certainly for supporting that... more funds should be diverted from professional leagues of grown men who can't develop and have zero value for international competition ( excpet for Gilas - senior team) to moving the funds to "youth and college programs. I certainly support that.. we need a change of paradigm of doing things.. we can't just continue doing things the same way, which is the definition of "madness" doing the things the same way and expecting different results. Move the funds to younger age.. and force 3/4 of the player population of those who finish college to get regular jobs and only the best few deserve to get paid full time professional playing jobs.
    NBTC- Team New Zealand - Camp David: vision "To provide a basketball Pathway for Filipino Kids in NZ while building men of character and leadership. I can do all things ...
    https://www.facebook.com/teamNZBasketball/

  18. #58
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    15,049

    Default

    I actually like the development that the PBA d league has like 20 teams, yea the more players at semi pro the better.

    Call me radical but I honestly believe around 4 PBA teams should be relegated to the d league and put a cap limit on age to around 26 yrs old, bawal na yung matanda
    Then have the top 2 or 3 PBA teams promoted to compete in regional Asia league club competition, that way there is an honest to goodness real conpetition
    Not PBA style where half the teams are really pretenders, not real pro teams with players of real professional decent standards
    I know people will think this is radical or crazy but to me its really rationalising things to the appropriate levels. Honestly
    NBTC- Team New Zealand - Camp David: vision "To provide a basketball Pathway for Filipino Kids in NZ while building men of character and leadership. I can do all things ...
    https://www.facebook.com/teamNZBasketball/

  19. #59
    Senior Member ja.he's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    2,664
    Country: Philippines

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    BTW the UAAP games and broadcast really are good investments , they get good returns to have more programmes ( schools) that are well funded and even bringing it to high school competition and all the international youth representation I'm certainly for supporting that... more funds should be diverted from professional leagues of grown men who can't develop and have zero value for international competition ( excpet for Gilas - senior team) to moving the funds to "youth and college programs. I certainly support that.. we need a change of paradigm of doing things.. we can't just continue doing things the same way, which is the definition of "madness" doing the things the same way and expecting different results. Move the funds to younger age.. and force 3/4 of the player population of those who finish college to get regular jobs and only the best few deserve to get paid full time professional playing jobs.
    MPBL and PBA D-League should be a full-pledge juniors-youth league ala eurostyle. Skills should be developed there not only for them to be ready for the pba but also for gilas. pba should bear in mind that the success of gilas is also the success of pba and the failure of gilas spells doom for the pba. when they will realize this fact? this is how the people in kbl-korea sees their league. for them, KBL=Korean National Team.
    "If you can't beat them, join them." - kevin durant

  20. #60
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    15,049

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ja.he View Post
    MPBL and PBA D-League should be a full-pledge juniors-youth league ala eurostyle. Skills should be developed there not only for them to be ready for the pba but also for gilas. pba should bear in mind that the success of gilas is also the success of pba and the failure of gilas spells doom for the pba. when they will realize this fact? this is how the people in kbl-korea sees their league. for them, KBL=Korean National Team.
    There really is a need to rationalize things for the better good of the sport. to say not bahala na , no controls needed and anything can be done by commercial entities isn't sound governence for the better good . In a sense the sprotting of malls everywhere in the Philippine is a microcosum of this effect. it's false that you can just do anything without controls. Proper planning and control and rationalizing is a must. or else wala, it's just ineffective results , puro laro loro lang..
    NBTC- Team New Zealand - Camp David: vision "To provide a basketball Pathway for Filipino Kids in NZ while building men of character and leadership. I can do all things ...
    https://www.facebook.com/teamNZBasketball/

Page 3 of 30 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •