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Thread: FIBA's President comments on the world cup/qualifying

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    Senior Member Dtown's Avatar
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    Default FIBA's President comments on the world cup/qualifying

    Saw this on FIBA's website, the comments were just so frustrating that I had to share. Two quotes in particular made my eyes roll hard.

    We're very happy with the system and we would have been delighted had it not been for the problem we had with the Euroleague. It really surprised us. We tried to work together and from the start they said no. We wanted to build, not to take away from anyone. I cannot understand how, some of Europe's biggest clubs, who allow their football players to join their national teams, don't do the same with basketball.
    He apparently still doesn't get that FIBA is not FIFA.

    As part of the FIBA Men's National Team Competition System, we have tied together the World Cup and Olympics. In the past, some national federations sent their best team to the Olympics but now they must have their best team where we want it to be, at our World Cup, which is our biggest event.
    And this apparent shot at the US, which still doesn't have to send their best team considering they only have to be the 2nd best Americas team at the tournament to get to the olympics.


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    What these Fiba officials don’t understand is that even if the Olympics placed some age requirement like FIFA thereby limiting the quality of player it would not result in those players now participating the World Cup instead. European players already value that tournament greatly, Americans don’t and never will. It won’t change anything so what’s the point ?

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    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    What these Fiba officials don’t understand is that even if the Olympics placed some age requirement like FIFA thereby limiting the quality of player it would not result in those players now participating the World Cup instead. European players already value that tournament greatly, Americans don’t and never will. It won’t change anything so what’s the point ?
    since when americans don't value World Cup greatly?
    The only time they did that was back in 1998 when they didn't bother sending a single NBA player to the competition and learnt the lesson the hard way, thus forming the US teams from NBA only players in all the subsequent tournaments. And it's not really worth discussing the pre-1990 years when euro and international basketball was far inferior to americans and even second rate americans and college guys could still win the Gold without breaking a sweat (even if those yugo and soviet teams were more than a match for them)

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    since when americans don't value World Cup greatly?
    The only time they did that was back in 1998 when they didn't bother sending a single NBA player to the competition and learnt the lesson the hard way, thus forming the US teams from NBA only players in all the subsequent tournaments. And it's not really worth discussing the pre-1990 years when euro and international basketball was far inferior to americans and even second rate americans and college guys could still win the Gold without breaking a sweat (even if those yugo and soviet teams were more than a match for them)
    Since always. Have you compared the Olympic rosters with the World Championships ? That's the difference between an A team and a B team. You never have and never will see teams like the '92, '96, '08, 'or '12 teams in the worlds. For the most part you get stars in their early 20's as opposed to stars in their prime. And even when it was college players participating, it was B level college players. The Olympic teams were the ones that were composed of all Americans, seniors and NBA draftees. The World's were made up of underclassmen.

    NBA players didn't participate in 1998 because of the lockout but that team as well was going to be a B team. And they still managed to win bronze in an event that nobody cared about or watched in the United States. It might be hard for a European to believe but the best NBA players will almost never give up a summer to compete in a tournament that nobody in their country cares about. If you don't believe me look up the ratings for world championship finals in 2010 and 2014. They are hysterical. Reruns of cartoons beat them.

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    Since I don't think we mentioned it here, how will Baumann's unexpected death affect this and other FIBA initiatives? Secretary General is the real power position in FIBA and he was the driving force behind all of this.

    TBH if FIBA could come to an agreement with the Euroleague on player availability the new system wouldn't be too bad. They knew they weren't going to get the NBA players, and that was sold as one of the positives--let the NBA guys out of qualifying and they'd be more likely to show up for the World Cup--but I think they were blindsided by the Euroleague thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    since when americans don't value World Cup greatly?
    The only time they did that was back in 1998 when they didn't bother sending a single NBA player to the competition and learnt the lesson the hard way, thus forming the US teams from NBA only players in all the subsequent tournaments. And it's not really worth discussing the pre-1990 years when euro and international basketball was far inferior to americans and even second rate americans and college guys could still win the Gold without breaking a sweat (even if those yugo and soviet teams were more than a match for them)
    It's not that Americans don't value the World Cup, it's that they don't value it as much as the Olympics.

    As Usagre pointed out, compare rosters of the Professional era Olympics vs World Cups. 92 vs 94, 00 vs 02, 08 vs 10, 12 vs 14. The only time I'd say the world cup team was stronger was comparing the 04 Olympic team with 06 WC and that was the start of the Colangelo era.
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    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    It's not that Americans don't value the World Cup, it's that they don't value it as much as the Olympics.

    As Usagre pointed out, compare rosters of the Professional era Olympics vs World Cups. 92 vs 94, 00 vs 02, 08 vs 10, 12 vs 14. The only time I'd day the world cup team was stronger was comparing the 04 Olympic team with 06 WC and that was the start of the Colangelo era.
    The difference of quality in those rosters was miniscule to begin with, with one team having a bit more "superstars" than the other. Only the 2002 team was really badly formed and coached, all of the others comprised of predominantly only multiple All Stars and superstars... The biggest difference between all of those teams was obviously the coaching and the attitude of NBA players who were participating

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    The difference of quality in those rosters was miniscule to begin with, with one team having a bit more "superstars" than the other. Only the 2002 team was really badly formed and coached, all of the others comprised of predominantly only multiple All Stars and superstars... The biggest difference between all of those teams was obviously the coaching and the attitude of NBA players who were participating
    You are so wrong about the quality of the rosters. You are looking back at names now and not who they were at the time.
    I’ll break it down further to illustrate how the most accomplished big name players never participate in the World’s as opposed to the Olympics.

    Using top 5 in MVP voting and 1st or 2nd team all NBA as a guide here are the numbers.

    The 5 NBA worlds teams had a combined 4 players coming off top 5 in MVP voting seasons and 8 first or second all nba seasons.

    The 7 Olympic teams in contrast have had a total of 21 players and 37 respectively. That’s not minuscule my friend it’s as pronounced as you can get. Why is it that Kobe or Duncan never participated in the World’s with numerous opportunities ?
    Or LeBron with opportunities in ‘10 and ‘14 and not when he was a far less accomplished 21 year old in 2006 ?
    That tournament is not valued as much, not even close. You will see at the end of this year when this trend continues.
    It is the difference between an A team ( your best possible team) and a B team ( any team that can be constructed with other players and be superior to this team).

    If the USA had sent A teams in those Worlds you would only get a handful of actual players
    From those teams make the team.

    1994 Shaq for sure maybe Reggie Miller and that’s it.
    2002 not a single player
    2006 LeBron and Wade, Carmelo a long shot.
    2010. Durant and nobody else
    2014 Harden, probably Curry and Anthony Davis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    It's not that Americans don't value the World Cup, it's that they don't value it as much as the Olympics..
    And the only value that it has now in my opinion with the players is that since 2006 it ties in with the Olympics that follow.
    Players participate in it hoping to get a shot in the upcoming Olympics. If you take away that Olympic carrot then the value and quality of player in the worlds would plummet. It will never be the premier stand alone tournament.

    Now from the fans perspective you can forget it. The tournament never has and never will have any juice.
    The TV ratings are a joke. Only hard core followers like us care about it. I will never forget trying to watch the 1990 tournament and despite having cable with 100 channels at the time it was nowhere to be found. The only games I got to see were USA vs Spanish speaking countries like Argentina and Puerto Rico on the Mexican channels that I had access to living in New York City. The final was also shown but I never watched the Usa-Yugoslavia semifinal since it wasn’t televised until many years later on tape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    What these Fiba officials don’t understand is that even if the Olympics placed some age requirement like FIFA thereby limiting the quality of player it would not result in those players now participating the World Cup instead. European players already value that tournament greatly, Americans don’t and never will. It won’t change anything so what’s the point ?
    And you are not exactly right about Europeans as well. For example, Lithuania perennial top 5 FIBA ranking team never field an elite team in WC. We screwed with qualification here and there, but even when we sent our teams we sent B ones. Also France, another perennial top 5 didn't care much about it as well. It's only Serbia who happened to send their best teams to WC made that impression that all Euro powerhouses care about WC greatly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGX View Post
    Since I don't think we mentioned it here, how will Baumann's unexpected death affect this and other FIBA initiatives? Secretary General is the real power position in FIBA and he was the driving force behind all of this.

    TBH if FIBA could come to an agreement with the Euroleague on player availability the new system wouldn't be too bad. They knew they weren't going to get the NBA players, and that was sold as one of the positives--let the NBA guys out of qualifying and they'd be more likely to show up for the World Cup--but I think they were blindsided by the Euroleague thing.
    Nothing will change. Simply cause they are money sucking organization from head to toes. Baumann died, the other will come into his place and the show will go on. It's just unbelievable that sane person, who is running such organisation (Muratore) would be so dumb to say that this system works great, it's exciting, when it's that obvious that it sucks that bad. How to explain it? Money. Those times when FIBA cared about bball are long gone. They didn't need any new system for years, but started to think about it ever since their beloved World Champ started to became more and more of an outcast in bball hierarchy. Not only NBA/USA didn't care about it, but whole bball world just chose Olympics as it always has been top tournament. Then bit by bit pre-Olympic Eurobasket took over, FIBA Ameri Cup took over. Major stars chose it as the only way to Olympics. That meant less money to those suckers pockets. So after making some stupid arguments about how local people in each country wants to see their teams playin', they decided to change it all, kill Eurobasket, kill AmeriCup, and make World Cup 2nd tournament, without even talking to NBA, Euroleague. They didn't give a fck that it will ruin it all, I'm sure they knew that it will happen, but who cares, only money was in their mind. Now World Cup is again 2nd tournament in the world, even if whole system crashed, but there will be stars, there will be more broadcasting, more sponsorship, more profit for these bastards. They reached their goal against all odds.
    This whole organisation needs huge shake-up. Get rid of all these old suckers, who are rotten there for decades and does nothing, just sucking money. The sad thing tho, that it won't happen


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