The best center in the EL today

[paspalj]

funny that you mention that.
Actually, Modern Big should be able to shoot 3s.

Actually that's a big misconception. Although it would be nice if 5 people could shoot 3s, it is not necessary. Depending on the structure of the roster you can very well have a C that shoots zero 3s.

[Cemalex]

Zalgiris has prepared plays for him. Armani hasn’t anything for Gudaitis, actually Armani doesn’t have prepared anything at all, except some shots for Micov. I agree that he’s better perimeter defender. Gudaitis looks like having 15 kg more.

Gudaitis using the adventage of Mike James's silly shots for the off rebounds. The opponents' center giving up from him to defend James at pick&rolls, he becomes free to collect off rebounds.

Also you are giving too much attentions for blocking numbers. He is very slow for perimeter defence and he is one of reasons of why Milano's defence is below average.

The best center in the league is Vesely. He was choosed 2 times all first euroleague team in last 3 years and this year one of the best candidates for it. He is better at both offence and defence than Gudaitis. He is the best perimeter defender along with Hines. Today's basketball it is more important than making one or two blocks in each game.

[Cemalex]

Best Center is the league is clealy Vesely and it is not disputed. But as always some people like to underrate Fener and their players. Getting 2 all-euroleague first team award in last 3 years is not sufficient to be best center but being a stat beauty at average euroleague teams for 10 games is enough to be candidate for that lol. Davies, Gudaitis best center come on

Vesely is playing one of the best teams in the league and making similar stats while keep winning. He is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and this is key of Fener success. He is winning awards not only because of his team is winning, he is key player when his team keep winning.

When Langford making the best PIR and while being score leader, he was not better than Spanoulis or Ser-Rod. Gudaitis can not be better than Vesely only with same or slightly better stats. He should show more than stats to be best. Lower teams provides better stats and if better stats dont make his team winning side, it is not very meaningful.

[Killer Bob]

Hines, Hunter, Slaughter, Tyus, Dunston - some examples of modern undersized C. Neither of them have shooting ability, they are fast and athletic players with luck of any kind of ball handling.

Randolph has nothing to do with this. He is very tall forward, not a center. He does not attack the basket with center technique, only after some penetration, with his three point shots or after ofenssive rebounds.

Players you mentioned are not moder undersized Cs, but just players, who, because of total lack of shooting ability, cannot play on any other position than C. And like I said almost anybody plays C nowadays in Europe.

I mentioned Randolph, because he played similar role than Davies in Lokomotiv. And so good that his small team went in F4. He could shoot unlike Davies for 3. He’s forward off course, but in Europe he can play C too. Davies is forward, who cannot play Pf, because he cannot shoot, that’s why he’s here and not in Nba. That doesn’t mean he’s not one of the best players on his position.

I never say that above mentioned players are not good enough for Europe, but just another sign how bad basketball really is nowadays in Euroleague.

[Killer Bob]

Gudaitis using the adventage of Mike James's silly shots for the off rebounds. The opponents' center giving up from him to defend James at pick&rolls, he becomes free to collect off rebounds.

Also you are giving too much attentions for blocking numbers. He is very slow for perimeter defence and he is one of reasons of why Milano's defence is below average.

The best center in the league is Vesely. He was choosed 2 times all first euroleague team in last 3 years and this year one of the best candidates for it. He is better at both offence and defence than Gudaitis. He is the best perimeter defender along with Hines. Today's basketball it is more important than making one or two blocks in each game.

I just wonder why Vesely is playing in Europe and not in Nba? Because he has size, athleticism and like you said is pretty mobile. Maybe modern C has to do something more nevertheless. Udoh, who is incredibly limited player, dominated in Europe more than Vesely ever will. But still total lack of creating and shooting abilities, like Vesely, makes him a bench warmer in Nba.

[Cemalex]

I just wonder why Vesely is playing in Europe and not in Nba? Because he has size, athleticism and like you said is pretty mobile. Maybe moder C has to do something more nevertheless.

This is his personal choice, he got some offers from nba team but decided to refuse. He is an emotional player and wants to be loved by fans and team. Fans are singing songs for him, playing at one of best teams in the league under the management best coach with pretty nice contract. He is happy and happiness is more important than nba thing.

He is capable to play nba right now after he improved his shots. He is modern big man with good size and athletic aspects. He could be role player at today's some nba teams.

[Killer Bob]

This is his personal choice, he got some offers from nba team but decided to refuse. He is an emotional player and wants to be loved by fans and team. Fans are singing songs for him, playing at one of best teams in the league under the management best coach with pretty nice contract. He is happy and happiness is more important than nba thing.

He is capable to play nba right now after he improved his shots. He is modern big man with good size and athletic aspects. He could be role player at today's some nba teams.

Vesely is not a real C even in Europe. He’s forward more. And please stop with this nonsense, he’s modern C because he can defend perimeter. Modern C is Jokic, who can pass, create for him and others and shoot. And that doesn’t mean shoot Fts.

[Oly_fan]

Players you mentioned are not moder undersized Cs, but just players, who, because of total lack of shooting ability, cannot play on any other position than C. And like I said almost anybody plays C nowadays in Europe.

The hottest take. They should give you a TV show, I'd tune in to see the next bone-headed point you're about to make.
People in the US have had careers as basketball pundits based on that you know.

[Cemalex]

Vesely is not a real C even in Europe. He’s forward more. And please stop with this nonsense, he’s modern C because he can defend perimeter. Modern C is Jokic, who can pass, create for him and others and shoot. And that doesn’t mean shoot Fts.

No, Jokic is just exceptional example. He is very extraordinary player. You are talking like every nba center create his shot and set-up the game. How many center fits with your definiation. Also even tough Vesely is not a game setter he has good asist avg 2,9 at EL.

Modern nba C is mobile, athletic with around 2,10 height. Mobile nba C runs the floor well, has high level energy with good motor. Mobile nba C has shooting threat, Vesely is not good enough at shooting but he is not terrible anymore and his shooting doesnt hurt his nba chance. He could be a role player at right team.

[Tevfik1907]

Vesely is not a real C even in Europe. He’s forward more. And please stop with this nonsense, he’s modern C because he can defend perimeter. Modern C is Jokic, who can pass, create for him and others and shoot. And that doesn’t mean shoot Fts.

Vesely can't pass?

9 EL games 2.8 ast average.

[Killer Bob]

The hottest take. They should give you a TV show, I'd tune in to see the next bone-headed point you're about to make.
People in the US have had careers as basketball pundits based on that you know.

if I understand you right, Hines, Slaughter, Tyus, Dunston, Hunter...are modern undersized Cs? Really?

[Killer Bob]

This is his personal choice, he got some offers from nba team but decided to refuse. He is an emotional player and wants to be loved by fans and team. Fans are singing songs for him, playing at one of best teams in the league under the management best coach with pretty nice contract. He is happy and happiness is more important than nba thing.

He is capable to play nba right now after he improved his shots. He is modern big man with good size and athletic aspects. He could be role player at today's some nba teams.

we will continue this conversation after/if he returns in NBA and proves, he can even get in rotation . now we can agree that we disagree.

[Oly_fan]

if I understand you right, Hines, Slaughter, Tyus, Dunston, Hunter...are modern undersized Cs? Really?

They are modern undersized centers, some of whom have been integral parts in great teams.

Sabonis did what Jokic does, nothing modern about Jokic. He's a great, great, old-fashioned center.
A modern center is someone who can move his feet to deal with the increasing importance of guards and defending the 3 in the game.
That is what changing in the game and that's what being modern implies.

Having a skilled center who has range, can post-up, pass when doubled etc that is always preferrable.
It's not like centers used to be unskilled and now some modern ones can do things for themselves. The game was originally centered around the big man's skills.

[Killer Bob]

Vesely can't pass?

9 EL games 2.8 ast average.

his career avg. is 1.3.

[Killer Bob]

They are modern undersized centers, some of whom have been integral parts in great teams.

Sabonis did what Jokic does, nothing modern about Jokic. He's a great, great, old-fashioned center.
A modern center is someone who can move his feet to deal with the increasing importance of guards and defending the 3 in the game.
That is what changing in the game and that's what being modern implies.

Having a skilled center who has range, can post-up, pass when doubled etc that is always preferrable.
It's not like centers used to be unskilled and now some modern ones can do things for themselves. The game was originally centered around the big man's skills.

All this players were listed forwards, before they came in Europe. If I remember right Hines even try to play Sf at the beginning. but they're extremely unskilled for forward position. they cannot create or shoot. the only atribute they have is, that they're very athletic for European standards and that's why they finished as C. I'm not saying that they cannot be useful in Europe, but they cannot even dream to play in Nba.