View Poll Results: who is the best center in EL today?

Voters
41. You may not vote on this poll
  • Gustavo Ayon

    3 7.32%
  • Tarik Black

    1 2.44%
  • Brandon Davies

    3 7.32%
  • Bryant Dunston

    0 0%
  • Arturas Gudaitis

    5 12.20%
  • Othello Hunter

    0 0%
  • Nikola Milutinov

    0 0%
  • Walter Tavares

    1 2.44%
  • Jan Vesely

    27 65.85%
  • Vincent Poirier

    1 2.44%
  • Other

    0 0%
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 75

Thread: The best center in the EL today

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,661
    Country: Greece

    Default The best center in the EL today

    Davies is the best center in Europe.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    4,451
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly_fan View Post
    Davies is the best center in Europe.
    Because he played great last year against Oly?

    Gudaitis is much better rebounder and rim protector. Has 2x more blocks, 2x steals. Davies is better only in points, but that’s only because he plays more and has much higher usage. Gudaitis would have been offensive monster, if he had played with Spanoulis, Calathes or Teodosic. James just doesn’t know how to feed him with balls.
    previously known as Beno

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,661
    Country: Greece

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Because he played great last year against Oly?

    Gudaitis is much better rebounder and rim protector. Has 2x more block, 2x steals. Davies is better only in points, but that’s only because he plays more and have 10% points higher usage. Gudaitis would have been offensive monster, if he had played with Spanoulis, Calathes or Teodosic.
    Davies had a 27-10-4 game against Armani just last week. His usage is greater because he can actually create his shot and doesn't depend on offensive rebounding and being fed the ball. He can dance in offence and he's a better perimeter defender.

    Gudaitis is really good but Davies is simply the better player.

  4. #4
    Senior Member thegreekmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Lietuva (special for JGX)
    Posts
    666

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Because he played great last year against Oly?
    Last game 35 index ranking.
    Game before that - 39.
    Average 18-19.

    Just to point it out that last year was not the last time he posted numbers as your post sounds.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    4,451
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly_fan View Post
    Davies had a 27-10-4 game against Armani just last week. His usage is greater because he can actually create his shot and doesn't depend on offensive rebounding and being fed the ball. He can dance in offence and he's a better perimeter defender.

    Gudaitis is really good but Davies is simply the better player.
    Zalgiris has prepared plays for him. Armani hasn’t anything for Gudaitis, actually Armani doesn’t have prepared anything at all, except some shots for Micov. I agree that he’s better perimeter defender. Gudaitis looks like having 15 kg more.
    previously known as Beno

  6. #6
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    4,451
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thegreekmeister View Post
    Last game 35 index ranking.
    Game before that - 39.
    Average 18-19.

    Just to point it out that last year was not the last time he posted numbers as your post sounds.

    I was talking with Oly fan, that’s why I said that, because he really killed them last year. Maybe you should look too Gudaitis’s numbers too? Which are even more impressive knowing who his Pg is.
    previously known as Beno

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Kupiskis
    Posts
    286
    Country: Lithuania

    Default

    Though the outcome of the debate between Gudaitis vs. Davies would satisfy me if it went either way, because Gudaitis is lithuanian and Davies is from Lithuanian team, I gotta say Davies is better overall player in this modern game. Just the abiity to switch and have his own against BEST perimeter players, makes him great. Just look at what he did today switching to Spanoulis. TOTAL SHUTDOWN. Show me anoter player as dominant in the post with the same ability to guard perimeter. THERE ARE NONE.
    Though Gudaitis is awesome in his own way - I am really glad for him. And to remind you, he left Zalgiris few years ago, because he wanted to play PF and Zalgiris would have none of it. Guess he settled to just being C and dominant at that.

  8. #8
    Senior Member thegreekmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Lietuva (special for JGX)
    Posts
    666

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    I was talking with Oly fan, that’s why I said that, because he really killed them last year. Maybe you should look too Gudaitis’s numbers too? Which are even more impressive knowing who his Pg is.
    Why should I look at Gudaitis numbers? Did I say that his numbers were bad? Did I say that his numbers were worse than Davies?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    4,451
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thegreekmeister View Post
    Why should I look at Gudaitis numbers? Did I say that his numbers were bad? Did I say that his numbers were worse than Davies?
    so what’s your problem? I said that Gudaitis is better than Davies, nothing else.
    previously known as Beno

  10. #10
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    4,451
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrRager View Post
    Though the outcome of the debate between Gudaitis vs. Davies would satisfy me if it went either way, because Gudaitis is lithuanian and Davies is from Lithuanian team, I gotta say Davies is better overall player in this modern game. Just the abiity to switch and have his own against BEST perimeter players, makes him great. Just look at what he did today switching to Spanoulis. TOTAL SHUTDOWN. Show me anoter player as dominant in the post with the same ability to guard perimeter. THERE ARE NONE.
    Though Gudaitis is awesome in his own way - I am really glad for him. And to remind you, he left Zalgiris few years ago, because he wanted to play PF and Zalgiris would have none of it. Guess he settled to just being C and dominant at that.
    Modern big should be rim protector, Davies is not. It’s true that Gudaitis is not good enough perimeter defender. Davies could be great Pf, if he could shoot for 3. He’s not really a C.
    previously known as Beno

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Vilnius, Lithuania
    Posts
    704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Modern big should be rim protector, Davies is not. It’s true that Gudaitis is not good enough perimeter defender. Davies could be great Pf, if he could shoot for 3. He’s not really a C.
    funny that you mention that.
    Actually, Modern Big should be able to shoot 3s. Which Davies CAN. But Saras does not allow him to do this He's got extremely soft shot from long 2. He played like C last season, between seasons in that NBA-like friendly summer league and now.

    Brandon is just more versatile.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    4,451
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yessuz View Post
    funny that you mention that.
    Actually, Modern Big should be able to shoot 3s. Which Davies CAN. But Saras does not allow him to do this He's got extremely soft shot from long 2. He played like C last season, between seasons in that NBA-like friendly summer league and now.

    Brandon is just more versatile.
    sure modern big should shoot for 3, but firstly he should be a rim protector, Davies is not and he cannot shoot for 3 either.
    https://www.basketball-reference.com...daviebr01.html

    He’s good enough C. for Europe, where nowadays almost anybody plays a C. It’s similar like Randolph was in Lokomotiv, but Randolph is a better 3 point shooter.
    previously known as Beno

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2,661
    Country: Greece

    Default

    Going by blocks the only actual rim protector in Europe is Tavares and he's definitely neither 'a modern center' nor anywhere near to the top centers.
    The better way to see who's protecting the rim is by seeing opponents' field goal when marked by that person. I don't know the specifics on Gudaitis but Armani's defence in general doesn't seem too hot. Anything but.

    Davies is the better player but Killer Bob can spend months arguing he isn't against all reason so what's the point?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    4,451
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly_fan View Post
    Going by blocks the only actual rim protector in Europe is Tavares and he's definitely neither 'a modern center' nor anywhere near to the top centers.
    The better way to see who's protecting the rim is by seeing opponents' field goal when marked by that person. I don't know the specifics on Gudaitis but Armani's defence in general doesn't seem too hot. Anything but.

    Davies is the better player but Killer Bob can spend months arguing he isn't against all reason so what's the point?
    I just wonder, why that good C came in Europe? Oh wait, maybe because he was Pf, who couldn’t shoot. Just watch, when Davies goes somewhere else, where he won’t get 30% usage. And we will see Pangos story repeated again.
    previously known as Beno

  15. #15
    Senior Member markkanen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    227
    Country: Finland

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    sure modern big should shoot for 3, but firstly he should be a rim protector, Davies is not and he cannot shoot for 3 either.
    https://www.basketball-reference.com...daviebr01.html

    He’s good enough C. for Europe, where nowadays almost anybody plays a C. It’s similar like Randolph was in Lokomotiv, but Randolph is a better 3 point shooter.
    Hines, Hunter, Slaughter, Tyus, Dunston - some examples of modern undersized C. Neither of them have shooting ability, they are fast and athletic players with luck of any kind of ball handling.

    Randolph has nothing to do with this. He is very tall forward, not a center. He does not attack the basket with center technique, only after some penetration, with his three point shots or after ofenssive rebounds.
    Last edited by markkanen; 12-07-2018 at 02:40 AM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    740
    Country: Greece

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yessuz View Post
    funny that you mention that.
    Actually, Modern Big should be able to shoot 3s.
    Actually that's a big misconception. Although it would be nice if 5 people could shoot 3s, it is not necessary. Depending on the structure of the roster you can very well have a C that shoots zero 3s.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    612
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Zalgiris has prepared plays for him. Armani hasn’t anything for Gudaitis, actually Armani doesn’t have prepared anything at all, except some shots for Micov. I agree that he’s better perimeter defender. Gudaitis looks like having 15 kg more.
    Gudaitis using the adventage of Mike James's silly shots for the off rebounds. The opponents' center giving up from him to defend James at pick&rolls, he becomes free to collect off rebounds.

    Also you are giving too much attentions for blocking numbers. He is very slow for perimeter defence and he is one of reasons of why Milano's defence is below average.

    The best center in the league is Vesely. He was choosed 2 times all first euroleague team in last 3 years and this year one of the best candidates for it. He is better at both offence and defence than Gudaitis. He is the best perimeter defender along with Hines. Today's basketball it is more important than making one or two blocks in each game.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    612
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    Best Center is the league is clealy Vesely and it is not disputed. But as always some people like to underrate Fener and their players. Getting 2 all-euroleague first team award in last 3 years is not sufficient to be best center but being a stat beauty at average euroleague teams for 10 games is enough to be candidate for that lol. Davies, Gudaitis best center come on

    Vesely is playing one of the best teams in the league and making similar stats while keep winning. He is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and this is key of Fener success. He is winning awards not only because of his team is winning, he is key player when his team keep winning.

    When Langford making the best PIR and while being score leader, he was not better than Spanoulis or Ser-Rod. Gudaitis can not be better than Vesely only with same or slightly better stats. He should show more than stats to be best. Lower teams provides better stats and if better stats dont make his team winning side, it is not very meaningful.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    4,451
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by markkanen View Post
    Hines, Hunter, Slaughter, Tyus, Dunston - some examples of modern undersized C. Neither of them have shooting ability, they are fast and athletic players with luck of any kind of ball handling.

    Randolph has nothing to do with this. He is very tall forward, not a center. He does not attack the basket with center technique, only after some penetration, with his three point shots or after ofenssive rebounds.
    Players you mentioned are not moder undersized Cs, but just players, who, because of total lack of shooting ability, cannot play on any other position than C. And like I said almost anybody plays C nowadays in Europe.

    I mentioned Randolph, because he played similar role than Davies in Lokomotiv. And so good that his small team went in F4. He could shoot unlike Davies for 3. He’s forward off course, but in Europe he can play C too. Davies is forward, who cannot play Pf, because he cannot shoot, that’s why he’s here and not in Nba. That doesn’t mean he’s not one of the best players on his position.

    I never say that above mentioned players are not good enough for Europe, but just another sign how bad basketball really is nowadays in Euroleague.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 12-07-2018 at 08:04 AM.
    previously known as Beno

  20. #20
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    4,451
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cemalex View Post
    Gudaitis using the adventage of Mike James's silly shots for the off rebounds. The opponents' center giving up from him to defend James at pick&rolls, he becomes free to collect off rebounds.

    Also you are giving too much attentions for blocking numbers. He is very slow for perimeter defence and he is one of reasons of why Milano's defence is below average.

    The best center in the league is Vesely. He was choosed 2 times all first euroleague team in last 3 years and this year one of the best candidates for it. He is better at both offence and defence than Gudaitis. He is the best perimeter defender along with Hines. Today's basketball it is more important than making one or two blocks in each game.

    I just wonder why Vesely is playing in Europe and not in Nba? Because he has size, athleticism and like you said is pretty mobile. Maybe modern C has to do something more nevertheless. Udoh, who is incredibly limited player, dominated in Europe more than Vesely ever will. But still total lack of creating and shooting abilities, like Vesely, makes him a bench warmer in Nba.
    previously known as Beno

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •