Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 41

Thread: The dawn of USA NT crisis?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Steadysoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    387
    Country: United States

    Default

    Team USA's biggest issues post Dream Team was always management and rarely players. They're well managed now. They'll be fine until that changes.

  2. #22
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    12
    Country: Vanuatu

    Default

    Individual Talent wise, the USA team that played in the 2008 Olympics was the best in recent memory. However the 2014 and 2016 team was by far the best. They simply towered over everyone because the players were perfectly suited to the international game.

    It is true that USA is going to field weaker teams going forward. But the Euro teams and Latin American teams are also in decline.

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,606
    Country: United States

    Default

    If anything I feel like it’s gotten easier as opposed to harder. In the Olympics 2008 final vs Spain was their toughest game and best chance at being eliminated. 2012 final was still extremely competitive but not as threatening as ‘08 since USA was up 11 with about a minute to go. And in 2016 there was really no threat at all at being eliminated. And that’s what it really comes down to. Close calls in preliminary round games really don’t mean that much. And in the world championships since the defeat to Greece in ‘06 the United States played 8 knockout games combined in ‘10 and ‘14 that were all decided before the fourth quarter. Never threatened at all.

  4. #24
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,326

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PetterJhon View Post
    Hello guys,,
    I don't think it's any secret that there was an unusually talented generation born between about 1984 and 1988, and that group is starting to age out of national team play. OTOH we ought to be able to put out teams at least as talented as the 2014 WC team, and they won the championship quite comfortably. Big question is whether Popovich (and his successor) will be as good a fit as K was.
    yup, that particular generation of US players is unusually talented even for their lofty standards, and seeing how most of these players are quickly aging out of NT play, I suspect there will be many more games and tournaments which are way too close and stressful for the muricans to sit through...And even if Pops is a great NBA coach, assembling and leading an international team takes completely different skills and people management abilities.

  5. #25

    Default

    Max don't quote guys who steal other users words from this thread Read the whole thread.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The flick from the future...

  6. #26
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Klaipeda
    Posts
    2,000
    Country: Lithuania

    Default

    hard to talk about crisis,when last game usa lost was in 2006...13 years...But if we look at history 1972-1988-2004-2020? every 16 years miracle happens

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,606
    Country: United States

    Default

    I think this summer there’s a much greater chance to pick off team USA than at 2020 Olympics. Historically the units are much more talented in the latter coupled with the increased value that the tournament has among the players.
    I think the transition away from Coach K to Popovich should also be taken into consideration. Easier to pick them off I think in year one of the program as opposed to later on.

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,276
    Country: Singapore

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    You have to be blind if you believe you have a superstar of Lebron/Durant/Kobe branch younger than 25yo. The last true superstar is Davis. Players like Brooker and Tatum just doesn't have the same upside, frame, uniqueness.

    Someone very well said, that Lebron was setting the tone, actually Kobe as well. Than Durant played some important role in some tournaments. Those lifted USA to the level of unbeatable. USA is massive, they will have best rosters in the world constantly, but the difference is that the new superstar generation in NBA is entirely International with Giannis, Embiid, Porzingis, ect.
    I really wont be afraid for team usa. They have the deepest talents. Like e.g Harden was a third string star on the thunders behind Durant and Westbrook when all of a sudden *boom* his a league leading scorer/mvp candidate and most unstoppable offensive force in the NBA.

  9. #29
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    1
    Country: Afghanistan

    Default

    It'll moreso be about which country's NBA players decide to actually play for the team.

    Australia has the most NBA talent, then Canada, and then Lithuania. JV turns into a legit superstar when playing for his national team though so we'll see.nox vidmate mobdro

  10. #30
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    7,363
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    @Straight forward, what's your take on this now?
    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

  11. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    @Straight forward, what's your take on this now?
    I wouldn't say current USA issues reflect my point in this thread directly. Current disturbances is more due to the USA player's attitude towards WC and ridiculous caution which increased lately. Obviously huge money, bigger impact of agents and teams lead to this and there's that traditional "attitude" towards WCs of Norh America as well. If USA had at least one legit superstar, this USA would be so much more stable. My point was rather that After Davis (will be 27yo in OG if will show up) there's no real superstars in the horizon. Sure, now there's Zion. But did you see how many people believe he will have a great career? I'm also sceptical, he's already way too fat being a kid. So imagine all current greats who are all around thirty years old now (except Davis), retires from NT in a year or two and we suddenly are facing much more vulnerable USA teams than it used to be. Let's face it, such players as Russell, Mitchell, Booker, Brown, Tatum are not the same in terms of a talent what USA used to have with Lebron, Durrant, Curry and such. The situation may change quickly, but again, after Davis there's yet not a single TRUE SUPERSTAR in the USA at the moment. Mix that with current bad attitude towards playing for the NT and it may be much worse times for USA coming up.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The flick from the future...

  12. #32
    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    1,444
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    I wouldn't say current USA issues reflect my point in this thread directly. Current disturbances is more due to the USA player's attitude towards WC and ridiculous caution which increased lately. Obviously huge money, bigger impact of agents and teams lead to this and there's that traditional "attitude" towards WCs of Norh America as well. If USA had at least one legit superstar, this USA would be so much more stable. My point was rather that After Davis (will be 27yo in OG if will show up) there's no real superstars in the horizon. Sure, now there's Zion. But did you see how many people believe he will have a great career? I'm also sceptical, he's already way too fat being a kid. So imagine all current greats who are all around thirty years old now (except Davis), retires from NT in a year or two and we suddenly are facing much more vulnerable USA teams than it used to be. Let's face it, such players as Russell, Mitchell, Booker, Brown, Tatum are not the same in terms of a talent what USA used to have with Lebron, Durrant, Curry and such. The situation may change quickly, but again, after Davis there's yet not a single TRUE SUPERSTAR in the USA at the moment. Mix that with current bad attitude towards playing for the NT and it may be much worse times for USA coming up.
    The caution expressed by US NBA players certainly has a lot to do with money (or the fear of losing it due to injury), but also keep in the mind the timing of this tournament dissuaded many of our stars from competing. At its conclusion on Sept. 15th, NBA training camps begin two weeks later. That's a lot to add to an already physically enduring schedule of 82 regular season games along with post-season play.

    As far as a drop in talent, perhaps there's a lull, but I think we've become so spoiled by the greatness of previous generations that this latest crop by comparison doesn't measure up. It kinda reminds me of the half generation in-between the original Dream Team and its predecessor in '94...Larry Johnson, Derrick Coleman, Shawn Kemp and Steve Smith were all fine players, but they weren't on the level of Scottie Pippen, Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone or Larry Bird. If you look at other countries, Spain, Lithuania and the such, they typically keep the same unit of players for years...the US is the only program that frequently swaps out its core, usually for younger, less experienced players. Yes, star players aren't always eager to participate, but more than anything it's the lack of maintaining a stable core that hurts, not declining talent.

    There's plenty of depth in the US high school and collegiate level, but it's a matter of developing what's there. For the purpose of FIBA play, I've long advocated that American players need to pick up more team concepts, especially as the world is catching up with us athletically.

  13. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    59
    Country: Venezuela

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Federoy View Post
    The caution expressed by US NBA players certainly has a lot to do with money (or the fear of losing it due to injury), but also keep in the mind the timing of this tournament dissuaded many of our stars from competing. At its conclusion on Sept. 15th, NBA training camps begin two weeks later. That's a lot to add to an already physically enduring schedule of 82 regular season games along with post-season play.

    As far as a drop in talent, perhaps there's a lull, but I think we've become so spoiled by the greatness of previous generations that this latest crop by comparison doesn't measure up. It kinda reminds me of the half generation in-between the original Dream Team and its predecessor in '94...Larry Johnson, Derrick Coleman, Shawn Kemp and Steve Smith were all fine players, but they weren't on the level of Scottie Pippen, Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone or Larry Bird. If you look at other countries, Spain, Lithuania and the such, they typically keep the same unit of players for years...the US is the only program that frequently swaps out its core, usually for younger, less experienced players. Yes, star players aren't always eager to participate, but more than anything it's the lack of maintaining a stable core that hurts, not declining talent.

    There's plenty of depth in the US high school and collegiate level, but it's a matter of developing what's there. For the purpose of FIBA play, I've long advocated that American players need to pick up more team concepts, especially as the world is catching up with us athletically.
    I agree with what you say Federoy is one of the most accurate comments I read on this subject.

    But of something if I am sure the players who are in this world are those who have the commitment and love for the national shirt of their country, and I know that this world will change the mentality of many of the players who face this tournament, because they will be at a maximum level and will be subject to pressure that can only general FIBA international basketball.

    When I see one of these players who begin to stand out in their respective selections in a high-level competition such as the World Cup or the Olympics, we can see that after the tournament ends, when the player returns to his local league is noticeable in an obvious way the improvement that imprints a player this type of tournaments, so we can see very interesting confrontations where we will observe the best in the world stand out.

  14. #34
    Senior Member Tesla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    176
    Country: Bosnia Herzegovina

    Default

    Team USA from the previous World Cup in 2014.

    Kyrie Irving
    James Harden
    Kenneth Faried
    Stephen Curry
    Anthony Davis
    Klay Thompson
    Rudy Gay
    DeMarcus Cousins
    DeMar DeRozan
    Andre Drummond
    Mason Plumlee
    Derrick Rose

    This team didn't even need a coach.

  15. #35
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    4,486
    Country: Serbia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
    Team USA from the previous World Cup in 2014.

    Kyrie Irving
    James Harden
    Kenneth Faried
    Stephen Curry
    Anthony Davis
    Klay Thompson
    Rudy Gay
    DeMarcus Cousins
    DeMar DeRozan
    Andre Drummond
    Mason Plumlee
    Derrick Rose

    This team didn't even need a coach.
    You are looking at that team from the perspective of now, 2019. You have 3 NBA MVPs etc. But, that is not the reality. This is reality in 2014.

    Guards
    - Derrick Rose was already washed up at that point, bothered by injuries. Not nearly a great player he once was.
    - Curry was just coming into his own, this was before his MVP season and first GSW title.
    - Klay Thompson, this was him before his breakout season, same like Curry
    - Kyrie Irving, eventual MVP of the competition, was coming off his worst professional season, with career lows in FG%, 3pt%, EFF etc. This is pre-Lebron Kyrie.
    - Harden was on top of his game more of less, but this was pre-D'Anthony Harden, before his MVP form

    Forwards
    - Rudy Gay has already lost most of his athleticism due to injuries, playing only 50 games in 2 years before the tournament
    - DeRozan was well what he always is.
    - Anthony Davis was just a 2nd year player, nowhere near what he is now. 21 yrs old
    - Faried, who had a heck of a tournament, was off of his best season in Denver, still nowhere near an All-Star caliber player.

    Centers
    - Drummond was a second year player, 21yrs old
    - Cousins was coming off of his breakthrough year in Sacramento 24 yrs old
    - Plumlee was a rookie in Brookly with 15mins a game, he was there because of Coach K.

    Overall, this team ended up being a monster with 10 All Stars out of 12 players, 3 NBA MVPs etc. but at the time it was a growing team. The oldest player was Rudy Gay, age 28. Curry followed with 26. Harden, DeRozan, Rose 25. Everybody else was 24 and under. Just a bunch of young players, none of them were in their prime, outside of let's say Boogie.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    1,444
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    You are looking at that team from the perspective of now, 2019. You have 3 NBA MVPs etc. But, that is not the reality. This is reality in 2014.

    Guards
    - Derrick Rose was already washed up at that point, bothered by injuries. Not nearly a great player he once was.
    - Curry was just coming into his own, this was before his MVP season and first GSW title.
    - Klay Thompson, this was him before his breakout season, same like Curry
    - Kyrie Irving, eventual MVP of the competition, was coming off his worst professional season, with career lows in FG%, 3pt%, EFF etc. This is pre-Lebron Kyrie.
    - Harden was on top of his game more of less, but this was pre-D'Anthony Harden, before his MVP form

    Forwards
    - Rudy Gay has already lost most of his athleticism due to injuries, playing only 50 games in 2 years before the tournament
    - DeRozan was well what he always is.
    - Anthony Davis was just a 2nd year player, nowhere near what he is now. 21 yrs old
    - Faried, who had a heck of a tournament, was off of his best season in Denver, still nowhere near an All-Star caliber player.

    Centers
    - Drummond was a second year player, 21yrs old
    - Cousins was coming off of his breakthrough year in Sacramento 24 yrs old
    - Plumlee was a rookie in Brookly with 15mins a game, he was there because of Coach K.

    Overall, this team ended up being a monster with 10 All Stars out of 12 players, 3 NBA MVPs etc. but at the time it was a growing team. The oldest player was Rudy Gay, age 28. Curry followed with 26. Harden, DeRozan, Rose 25. Everybody else was 24 and under. Just a bunch of young players, none of them were in their prime, outside of let's say Boogie.
    Well said

  17. #37
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Klaipeda
    Posts
    2,000
    Country: Lithuania

    Default

    That USA 2014 team had 5 all star players from 2014 all star game.Curry and Irving was starters , already voted best pointguards in their respected conferences .Harden was already best NBA SG in 2014,he didn't start because old Kobe fans voted him in.

    Klay that fits fiba perfectly and Cousins didn't even made all star game that year because in west is always star players crowded .That 2014 was one of best World cup teams USA have sended overall tallent wise.

    2019 USA team have two all star players from 2019 game comming both from less starless weak east side.

    2019 USA team scores in pre games is not convincing at all +9,+16,-4,+16 that's normal basketball scores.It used to be +30,+35 againts anybody except maybe Spain.

    It feels more like pre NBA players, USA team would be favorite, but other elite teams on good day could give them a seriuos fight.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 08-26-2019 at 12:06 PM.

  18. #38
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    4,486
    Country: Serbia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    That USA 2014 team had 5 all star players from 2014 all star game.Curry and Irving was starters , already voted best pointguards in their respected conferences .Harden was already best NBA SG in 2014,he didn't start because old Kobe fans voted him in.

    Klay that fits fiba perfectly and Cousins didn't even made all star game that year because in west is always star players crowded .That 2014 was one of best World cup teams USA have sended overall tallent wise.

    2019 USA team have two all star players from 2019 game comming both from less starless weak east side.

    2019 USA team scores in pre games is not convincing at all +9,+16,-4,+16 that's normal basketball scores.It used to be +30,+35 againts anybody except maybe Spain.

    It feels more like pre NBA players, USA team would be favorite, but other elite teams on good day could give them a seriuos fight.
    It was not a comparison to 2019 team, which is less talented. It's just a notion that in 2014, that team was super strong and didn't need a coach. It was a growing team, played really well together. Great selection process.

  19. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,606
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    It was not a comparison to 2019 team, which is less talented. It's just a notion that in 2014, that team was super strong and didn't need a coach. It was a growing team, played really well together. Great selection process.
    It cracks me up how people do this all the time. They can’t look back and remember how the team was perceived and who they were at the time. You nailed it with your breakdown of the players and who they were at that time.
    It’s also funny that if you go back and read the 2014 USA team comments made here during their exhibition games and you’ll see how everyone except me was singing a different tune. They played no defense, they weren’t as good as the 2010 team and now we look back and they were the Dream Team. As I said at the time they had incredible fire power and shooting and they would outscore people whenever they needed to. This team is a lot closer to 2010 than 2014 obviously but I think they will score just as much if not more than ‘10. They also have the ability to be just as good defensively.
    I think they are the solid favorite to win this tournament and like I’ve been saying all along only Serbia seriously scares me.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Buzissa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    1,426
    Country: Portugal

    Default

    Just today revisited the final of 2010 against Turkey. Durant, just coming off his first NBA playoff appearance, was simply a matchup nightmare. He didn't even need to get a lot of touches.
    This time around I don't see who can fill those shoes of go-to, unstoppable scorer when the games get tough.

    '19 Serbia is also a much better team than '10 Turkey or any team of that tournament.
    This is a team that has reached two finals and now has a top 10 NBA player in the squad. In my book, and meaning no disrespect to the World and Olympic champs, they would be the favorites in a potential matchup against the USA.
    Last edited by Buzissa; 08-29-2019 at 01:37 AM.
    Bronze Medal - IBN 2014 FIBA Basketball World Cup Prediction Game

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •