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Thread: Qualification Tracking (all zones)

  1. #21
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    So basically fiba is saying it doesn't matter what place you took in qualification 1st or 3rd...some teams would have sended u-18 teams to last window if they knew that...

    Obviously from okenasia side Australia should have been in pot 1 not China. Chinas place in 3 pot by both rating and results in qf.
    Not exactly true. Every win counted in qualifiers and it had impact on ranking, which was updated after each window. Final place in standings wasn't crucial, but wins/losses ratio was


  2. #22
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Not exactly true. Every win counted in qualifiers and it had impact on ranking, which was updated after each window. Final place in standings wasn't crucial, but wins/losses ratio was
    Even if wins counted in fiba rankings I didn't see moving up for lithuanian in rankings with 11 wins. It's seems like one win in qf is worth less than 1 point in rankings... Slovenia lost almost all games still up there in same place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Even if wins counted in fiba rankings I didn't see moving up for lithuanian in rankings with 11 wins. It's seems like one win in qf is worth less than 1 point in rankings... Slovenia lost almost all games still up there in same place.
    I believe the QF games matter but they are just worth very little points.
    Canada I think was flat at 23rd (or maybe even moved down a spot or two) even after going 10-2, winning the pool and even had a better point differential than the USA (so technically we may have won the FIBA Americas but moved no where in the rankings). Still too much weight on what happened 4, 6, 8 years ago.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Steadysoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Indeed. I don't remember any host bein' in top pot lately, just cause it's hosts. Nor in Olympics, nor in World Cup. Now, with especially such a big gap between China and other 1st seeds - it looks like a nonsense. China will be like a gift for lower seeded teams
    They announced the change before days before the window

  5. #25
    Senior Member Steadysoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    I believe the QF games matter but they are just worth very little points.
    Canada I think was flat at 23rd (or maybe even moved down a spot or two) even after going 10-2, winning the pool and even had a better point differential than the USA (so technically we may have won the FIBA Americas but moved no where in the rankings). Still too much weight on what happened 4, 6, 8 years ago.
    I wish they posted the point changes instead of the position changes. It would make it easier to understand for everyone involved.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Dtown's Avatar
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    For some stupid reason they don't archive their full rankings, however fiba had some articles from the different windows giving us some idea of the point changes

    Present window. http://www.fiba.basketball/news/top-...ld-ranking-men

    December window. http://www.fiba.basketball/news/gree...ld-ranking-men

    September window http://www.fiba.basketball/news/fran...sented-by-nike


    US for example jumped from 767.1 in September to 793.7 now

    while Spain fell from 704.1 in september to 703.4 now.

    As to why, I have no idea lol. Both had similar records, though the US played a top 5 team in Argentina twice so that might have been a factor *shrug*.
    Last edited by Dtown; 02-26-2019 at 09:13 PM.
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  7. #27
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Even if wins counted in fiba rankings I didn't see moving up for lithuanian in rankings with 11 wins. It's seems like one win in qf is worth less than 1 point in rankings... Slovenia lost almost all games still up there in same place.
    Of course it counted, that's what FIBA was sayin' ever since qualifiers started. They always were writing about updated ranking after each window, but since I don't care about it, I never paid attention. I think you can find how it works on ranking page


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    For some stupid reason they don't archive their full rankings, however fiba had some articles from the different windows giving us some idea of the point changes

    Present window. http://www.fiba.basketball/news/top-...ld-ranking-men

    December window. http://www.fiba.basketball/news/gree...ld-ranking-men

    September window http://www.fiba.basketball/news/fran...sented-by-nike


    US for example jumped from 767.1 in September to 793.7 now

    while Spain fell from 704.1 in september to 703.4 now.

    As to why, I have no idea lol. Both had similar records, though the US played a top 5 team in Argentina twice so that might have been a factor *shrug*.
    Even though FIBA's ranking formula is very simple--too simple--it is apparently too complicated for me as I can't figure out how the US rating could possibly have improved over each of the last two windows.

    Anyway, while the FIBA ranking is stupid, trying to divine some sort of qualification rankings between teams that played in different groups against different opponenents is even more stupid, so using FIBA ranking for the draw with some mechanism for ensuring geographical diversity in the groups is a reasonable way to go.
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    There are so many mediocre/bad teams in this extended field that for me if you can’t finish second in your group I have no sympathy for you.

  10. #30
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    3 out of the 8 groups are gonna be extremely weak. If you consider that Iran, Philippines, and South Korea will be in Pot 3. If you factor the geographical principles and the teams in Pot 4 that means those 3 teams will probably be grouped with an African team in Pot 4 or New Zealand. Now that makes those 3 groups really weak. So the top two teams in those groups definitely have no excuses.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    There are so many mediocre/bad teams in this extended field that for me if you can’t finish second in your group I have no sympathy for you.

    You say that but Australia is a really good 2 and Canada and even Germany are very good threes. There is the possiblity of death pools.

    If fact it looks to me like Canada will be in a pool with either Australia, Turkey, Italy or Russia as a 2 to avoid the other fiba America’s teams. Which of the 1 seeds wants that? Since it can’t be Argentina or USA, unless it is China then there is your death pool.

    Add Nigeria to it as a 4 seed to more of a party. But I hope they stick Nigeria in Greece’s pool as a laugh. They could be quite the 4 seed.
    Last edited by mojo13; 02-27-2019 at 01:10 AM.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Dtown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    You say that but Australia is a really good 2 and Canada and even Germany are very good threes. There is the possiblity of death pools.

    If fact it looks to me like Canada will be in a pool with either Australia, Turkey, Italy or Russia as a 2 to avoid the other fiba America’s teams. Which of the 1 seeds wants that? Since it can’t be Argentina or USA, unless it is China then there is your death pool.

    Add Nigeria to it as a 4 seed to more of a party. But I hope they stick Nigeria in Greece’s pool as a laugh. They could be quite the 4 seed.
    Greece
    Australia
    Canada
    Nigeria

    Can you imagine the rage?
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  13. #33
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    How about this one ?

    China
    Dominican Republic
    Poland
    Ivory Coast

  14. #34
    Senior Member Steadysoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGX View Post
    Even though FIBA's ranking formula is very simple--too simple--it is apparently too complicated for me as I can't figure out how the US rating could possibly have improved over each of the last two windows.

    Anyway, while the FIBA ranking is stupid, trying to divine some sort of qualification rankings between teams that played in different groups against different opponenents is even more stupid, so using FIBA ranking for the draw with some mechanism for ensuring geographical diversity in the groups is a reasonable way to go.
    From what I could understand the events are now weighted. So the older the event the less it's worth. USA has frequently skipped the Americup. They haven't this cycled and they won. Plus the qualifier games.

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