View Poll Results: Who will overthrow Spain as the #2 team in the world?

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • France

    3 18.75%
  • Serbia

    5 31.25%
  • Brazil

    0 0%
  • Argentina

    0 0%
  • Lithuania

    0 0%
  • Croatia

    0 0%
  • Australia

    1 6.25%
  • Greece

    3 18.75%
  • Nigeria

    0 0%
  • Senegal

    0 0%
  • Turkey

    3 18.75%
  • Other Europe

    0 0%
  • Other Americas

    1 6.25%
  • Other Africa

    0 0%
  • Other Asia

    0 0%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32

Thread: Who (If Anybody) Will Overthrow Spain As The #2 Team In The World?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,273
    Country: United States

    Default Who (If Anybody) Will Overthrow Spain As The #2 Team In The World?

    With the World Championships finally a little over a year away, I've gotten to thinking about the seemingly inevitable shift at the top from Spain to some rising power, and wondering who that might be.

    So I now pose this question to my fellow Interbasket members. Who is your pick?

    Edit: Tried to add a poll but the window expired.
    Last edited by Levenspiel; 06-16-2018 at 08:55 AM. Reason: Poll added.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,219

    Default

    I think with back to back silver medals behind the United States in the last two world events that Serbia already has. A possible lineup with a quartet of Teodosic, Bogdanovic, Bjelica and Jokic and all the other talent Serbia can compliment those guys with is superior to anything else anyone else can field.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,273
    Country: United States

    Default

    I don't think you can ignore Australia's combination of talent, size, and athleticism though. If everybody who is eligible plays, they are going to be a handful. Even without Ben, you have potentially a young core of Exum, Bolden, and Maker to complement the experienced team that put the world on notice in Rio.

    That's without even getting into teams like France, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, or the extremely talented young Latvian frontcourt.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Dtown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Metro Detroit, MI
    Posts
    3,385
    Country: United States

    Default

    I'd say Serbia already has. They finished higher than Spain in the World Cup, Olympics and Eurobasket, and finished second to the US in two of them. The only thing they haven't done is seal the deal. If they had won gold against Slovenia I don't think this would be up for debate.

    Beyond that I agree that the one to watch in the future is Australia. They're undergoing a renaissance of sorts, and arguably should have beaten Spain in 2016. Growing NBA talent, noteworthy college talent, solid home league to develop other players. They're basically what we thought Canada might turn into with actual results to back it up.
    Pistons: 2018-2019 In the middle of nowhere

    Bronze medal 2013 Eurobasket prediction Game.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    51
    Country: Australia

    Default

    Most people in Australia are bullish about the Boomers' prospects in not just the short term, but the medium to long term also. From a talent perspective, in addition to aforementioned players, there are continual outstanding youngsters coming though, Josh Green, Tamuri Wigness, Will McDowell-White etc and emerging players in their mid-20s including Mitch Creek, Mitch McCarron, Majok Deng etc . But what most people not in the know don't realise is the growth in Australian coaching, scouting, use of analytics (on a par with anything the NBA does) and the growth of Australian backroom staff in local and NBA circles (analytics, conditioning, physios etc). Never before has Australian basketball been so close to the coal face of the NBA, which is what Europe was doing two decades ago. it is possible that the level of overall professionalism is higher than in the Euroleague atm...(big statement, but a lot is being done right).

    I respect what Serbia officially have done over about a five year period now. They are definitely the best of the rest right now in FIBA competition and although they don't routinely produce lottery picks, they produce solid talent that gets better with age and they should continue to be a menace. One thing annoyed me about watching them after beating Australia in the Olympic semi-final (I watched with Serbian friend lol) and that was their degree of celebration. To them, winning silver was effectively winning gold. I don't believe Australia have that second is first mentality. Regarding Canada, apart from last years' FIBA Under 19 crown, they have done precious little at men's senior level. If they ever get their act together, watch out....

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,273
    Country: United States

    Default

    Yeah no doubt.

    Though I wonder how Canada might have fared if this new expanded World Cup had been the case in 2014. With all that talent. Their only real issue is no true big other than TT, just talented guys like Olynyk.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    619
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CHBB View Post
    Yeah no doubt.

    Though I wonder how Canada might have fared if this new expanded World Cup had been the case in 2014. With all that talent. Their only real issue is no true big other than TT, just talented guys like Olynyk.
    Tristan Thompson is well down my list of Canadian bigs. Kelly Olynyk is a fantastic FIBA bigman and after KO there is Dwight Powell, Trey Lyles and maybe even Khem Birch before TT (he is just not well suited to FIBA ball).

    Our issues are not bigmen its coaching, FIBA experience, systems, federation management and our player's desire to play.

    If we can get Andrew Wiggins, Jamal Murray, Cory Joseph, Kelly Olynyk, Trey Lyles, Dillon Brooks, Dwight Powell, RJ Barrett together on a team and add whatever filler of low level NBA players (Tyler Ennis, Nik Stauskas, Khem Birch, Shai Alexander, Chris Boucher, Xavier Rathan Maynes, Naz Long) and EuroLeague-type players (Kevin Pangos, Kyle Wiltjer, Phil Scrubb, Melvin Ejim etc.) and we can take down anyone outside the U.S.

    I doubt we ever get everyone at the same time, but if we can get most of the top players, then look out.

    We had 14 players play in the NBA this year, the most of any non-US country in any given year. Yes, many of them were barely cracking rosters, but still there is depth of talent many don;t realize - we should have another 6-8 players drafted in the next two years.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,273
    Country: United States

    Default

    A few things...

    Wouldn't you say that has at least a little something to do with the fact that Euro players who are barely making NBA rosters have a major and lucrative league to go back home to if the NBA doesn't work out? I mean I can think of quite a few NBA caliber players from each major Euro country's national squads. Canadian players on the other hand can only go home to the NBL.

    Second, the problem is none of those guys other than Tristan are traditional bigs. You need one in order to beat the big boys.

    Some good points about Australia, Roofman. They have the kind of ideal combination of NBA prospects, a major national league, and high level coaching that causes a country to become a power.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    619
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CHBB View Post
    A few things...

    Wouldn't you say that has at least a little something to do with the fact that Euro players who are barely making NBA rosters have a major and lucrative league to go back home to if the NBA doesn't work out? I mean I can think of quite a few NBA caliber players from each major Euro country's national squads. Canadian players on the other hand can only go home to the NBL.

    Second, the problem is none of those guys other than Tristan are traditional bigs. You need one in order to beat the big boys.

    Some good points about Australia, Roofman. They have the kind of ideal combination of NBA prospects, a major national league, and high level coaching that causes a country to become a power.
    You are absolutely correct - I am stating that more to make a point about the depth. The NBA is the 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice league for most Canadian players and there are loads of European players who choose not to play in the NBA but could. I firmly believe a good European league player, like Kevin Pangos, is more valuable to our national team than a very low level NBA player like Tyler Ennis. Still, Tyler Ennis is a pretty good player and it is a short list of national teams where he wouldn't be in their top 12. Canada is still missing that star player like Giannis, Jokic, the Gasols, Ben Simmons (will be) and Tony Parker (was). Wiggins hasn't really panned out but like Wiggins many of our top guys are still pretty young. Jamal Murray, RJ Barrett, Dillon Brooks, Trey Lyles and with many more on the way.

    Second - what do you need traditional bigs for in todays game? Its more about mobility and shooting. Who is out there that would steamroll over a front court of Olynyk, Powell, Thompson, Birch etc? That list is fairly short. Anyways, no worries about debating these hypotheticals - hopefully we can "put up, or shut up" in 2019.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,273
    Country: United States

    Default

    Honestly your front line isn't all that intimidating. Most Euro squads and definitely the US would steamroll over them. As much as people talk about the "modern game", you can't win without dominant size. It's why France and Brazil continue to finish lower than they should.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    619
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CHBB View Post
    Honestly your front line isn't all that intimidating. Most Euro squads and definitely the US would steamroll over them. As much as people talk about the "modern game", you can't win without dominant size. It's why France and Brazil continue to finish lower than they should.
    I get what you are saying. We don’t have much defensive strength inside or rim protection. Offensively it’s a nonissue but even last night we struggled to contain a traditional big inside with the Chinese center. Given Olynyk and Powell didn’t pay and it was mostly Boucher, Ejim and Bennett.
    Boucher had about 5 blocks and 11 bourds but was pushed around allot for positioning. I can see where a Tristan Thompson would help but he is undersized as a center and doesn’t offer rim protection.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,273
    Country: United States

    Default

    And that to me is why Canada isn't on the level of the strongest NTs despite producing so much high level wing and forward talent. Khem Birch is probably the closest thing to a two-way big you all have, entirely due to his athleticism. And TT is the only one who can bang down low. Boucher is a good shot-blocker but crazy skinny. I did notice Bhullar has been playing though, which is interesting. If Canada can ever produce a dominant big man though then I think they'll be a force to be reckoned with.

  13. #13
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Ljubljana
    Posts
    12,728
    Country: Slovenia

    Default

    Basketball is becoming more and more a guards game.

    In this aspect I believe europe is lagging behind badly, since there are less servicable or exceptional guards produced as in the past. I could say something simmilar for Serbia and to some lesser degree Spain.

    Serbia has Bodganović for years to come, followed up by Jaramaz that could devlop into a really good PG to be honest, I like him a lot, Marinković a decent SG, maybee we could wait for a while before giving up on Stevan Peno. All those are very good prospects for european circumstances, but when it comes to competing in the world, apart from Bogdanović, they are kind of underwhelming in a sense, they likely won't enable an edge against top5 teams in the world. But overall, as far as Europe goes, Serbia actually has it well in this regard

    Spain needless to say, along with some players that still have few years on their NT as Rodriguez, llull, Rubio has quite some guards to pick from. All playing in ACB they eventualy develop into servicable players. They surely got great talents in the youth stages, I doubt they would be extraordinary perimeter players, needed to keep their no.2 world status.

    When it will definately be interesting to see the rise of Ukraine, that might in 4-5 years finaly get decent perimeter in Mihayluk and Sanon, to see Czech adding up some servicable players to their Satoransky+Vesely core, Finland with developing Markannen and overall a lot of decent players coming into Dirk-less German NT, lack of concentrated and extraordinary perimeter players will hurt europe to the extent, I believe Canada and Australia, properly coached, prepared and players developing chemistry are likely the ones to challenge the current "bball world order".
    Out of european NT's, I believe France will be up there if they manage to combine their athleticism with some coaching and a system finally.

    Even though those guards that europe is developing are over here considered as some major talents, in reality there is no other aspect of basketball, which when put on the world stage, becomes as mediocre as european guard play.

    Solutions for that, such as cutting those kids some slack with selections at the age of 15 which are often determining their careers way too early, getting coaches to aknowledge some good aspects of other bball schools, improving transition from U18 and U20 to seniors (the biggest black hole out there, unless the player goes to NCAA) and widening up the base... are the problems I haven't yet seen being answered systematicaly in europe. Unless they are, it's clear: europe will lag behind it's potential.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,273
    Country: United States

    Default

    You know what's funny is the European country who's producing those athletic guards outside of France and Germany is the UK. They're also producing some undersized but fairly dominant bigs like Olaseni, Jesse Chuku, etc (and not so undersized ones like Bigby-Williams) and dynamic forwards like Yeboah and some others. If they can get some real coaching and funding, they can do some damage one day. That's without even getting any kind of commitment from Prince Ibeh or OG Anonuby.

  15. #15
    Junior Member tillency's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    1
    Country: Poland

    Default

    I think Serbia.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    619
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Interesting year for Canada.
    Shai Gilgeous Alexander is turning out to be something special relegating Milos Teodosic to the discard heap (Patrick Beverly too!)

    The NCAA has a number of surprises too. I have seen all the following on various mock drafts projected as 2019 first round picks:
    RJ Barrett
    Lugeuntz Dort
    Simi Shittu
    Nickeil Alexander Walker
    Ignas Brazdeikis
    Brandon Clarke
    Oshae Brissett
    Lindell Wigginton
    Andrew Nembhard


    Of course not all of them will be drafted and/or turn into good NBA players, but it seems a few will. Not sure what other countries are producing anything close to this volume of NBA talent.

    Chris Boucher is another interesting one as well - he has been the best player in the G-League by far this season. Check out these stats:
    https://gleague.nba.com/player/chris-boucher/


    The talent is already there - this crop of youngster is fuel to the fire....
    Further I am seeing more and more signs of most NBA guys buying into the national program (except Andrew Wiggins and Trey Lyles).

  17. #17

    Default

    We'll your in WC. Nice stage to show off.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The flick from the future...

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Khimki City
    Posts
    969
    Country: Russian Federation

    Default

    I suspect that France and Canada have the best chances due to the fact that, I believe, depth of the roster should become more and more of a factor in determining who can become the second to US. For the first of the mentioned teams the main problem is finding a proper system and managing a forthcoming generation change and for the latter it's a question if their star players will finally become integral parts of a well-coached, strong-willed team.

    I'm quite surprised to see Australia getting mentioned here - most of their "potential NBA star" prospects are rapidly turning into busts and there is not much quality behind those. Right now there are almost none Australian players in European top competitions and that says a lot. And while NBL progresses a lot, it's still far, far behind top European leagues. I mean, let's take four leading teams of this NBL season. These are United, Kings, Wildcats and Bullets. And let's look at domestic output in these teams: in the first one leading scorers among Australians are David Barlow (35 y.o.), Chris Goulding (30 y.o.) and Mitch McCarron (26 y.o.); in the second one there are Kevin Lisch (32 y.o.), Andrew Bogut (34 y.o.), Brad Newley (33 y.o.) and Daniel Kickert (35 y.o.); in the third one we have just Nick Kay (26 y.o.) and Mitch Norton (25 y.o.) while in the fourth one NT eligible players with decent output are Cameron Gliddon (29 y.o.), Reuben Te Rangi (24 y.o.), Cameron Bairstow (28 y.o.), Jason Cadee (27 y.o.) and Matt Hodgson (27 y.o.). Some of these guys, mostly the older ones, played in Europe and some had decent seasons here but the fact that they are back in Australia is hardly due to the fact that NBL stalwarts are winning a race with top European teams to secure services of these brilliant players. So, speaking frankly, who of these guys can transfer their game successfully to the best European standards? Having in mind that Americans who dominate this league weren't dominating any competition worthy of mention here in Europe, that doesn't look to me like a quality-packed league brimming with tons of up-and-coming domestic talents. And those Aussies in NBA are mostly nonremarkable players aside from Ben Simmons. Exum, for example, was drafted fifth back in 2014 and he averages less than 17 minutes per game (and less than 8 points) this season, while another lottery pick, Thon Maker, plays garbage time and Dellavedova finally hit the predictable deadend of his fairytale-turn-true story. Behind Simmons, ageing Patty Mills and totally mediocre Joe Ingles are Aussie "best" NBA players. It's not a good sign, for sure.
    2013/2014 IBN Euroleague Prediction Game Winner

    Thrash 'till Death!

  19. #19
    Senior Member Tevfik1907's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    İstanbul / Türkiye
    Posts
    1,156
    Country: Turkey

    Default

    Serbia or France.

    If Greek Freak joins Greece, then they also have chance to reach the finals, but somehow I don't think he will join and risk an injury in national team.
    FENERBAHÇE BASKETBALL
    --- 1967, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2019 Turkish Cup Champion ---
    --- 1991, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018 Turkish League Champion ---
    --- 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019 Euroleague Final Four ---
    --- 2017 Euroleague Champion ---

  20. #20
    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    2,179
    Country: Greece

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tevfik1907 View Post
    Serbia or France.

    If Greek Freak joins Greece, then they also have chance to reach the finals, but somehow I don't think he will join and risk an injury in national team.
    He is joining this year. But we're weak in center position so we'll need Koufos to join as well.
    1997 - 2012 - 2013

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •