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Thread: Former Greek Minister: The only good Turk is a dead Turk

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    Senior Member iskoch's Avatar
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    Default Former Greek Minister: The only good Turk is a dead Turk

    Former Greek foreign minister Theodoros Pangalos has sparked controversy after using the phrase “the only good Turk is a dead Turk” in a radio interview on Tuesday.

    Speaking to Skai radio, Pangalos argued that Greece faced a “huge” problem with Turkey. “The enemy is relentless and will not be overcome, regardless of how much good faith we show,” he said.

    “The only good Turk is a dead Turk. I believe this because I have not come across a good Turk. They lack basic appreciation. The Turk does not have a sense for justice.”

    Pangalos, who served as foreign minister between 1996 and 1999, is known for making controversial comments.

    In the 1990s, he claimed Germany was “a giant with bestial force and a child's brain” and accused Turkey of “dragging its bloodied boots across the carpets of Europe.”

    He sparked a backlash in 2010, when he claimed that there was shared responsibility between politicians and citizens for the Greek crisis. “We ate it [the money] all together,” he said at the time.

    In 2013, he claimed Greece had been eavesdropping on US ambassadors in Athens and Ankara in the late 1990s.

    In 2014, Pangalos said he did not like looking at the face of SYRIZA’s candidate for Athens governor, Rena Dourou, on posters. He suggested that he would prefer to see a full-body picture of her in a bikini instead.

    http://www.ekathimerini.com/225782/a...nt-about-turks
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    Senior Member iskoch's Avatar
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    I wonder, how many per cent of Greece think that way?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    I wonder, how many per cent of Greece think that way?
    Just your usual empty headed people "patriots" that you'll find in every country. Unfortunately, a big consequence of the economic crisis (has always been) is the rise of nationalistic parties and ideas that only spread hatred against our fellow man.

    I don't like talking politics in a forum (so I won't continue here) but because I've seen some posts from you with strong language and ideas, just know that most people understand that they have nothing against the people of other countries. Governments might act out, and news will of course report with a high component of subjectivity (in favor of the country's policy) but the people, don't see nationality. It's about being a good person. I firmly believe that Turks and Greeks have more in common than differences.

    In the US where I live, I have a couple of Turkish friends. Wonderful people. If I see a greek person being a dick, I'll call him out. Nationality has no place when judging an individual.

    A couple of people in a forum don't represent an entire nation. Of course this holds for everything. You need to have a sufficiently big sample size to infer something about the whole population.

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    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
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    If we start posting provocautive statements from Turkish politicians the list will be endless.
    1997 - 2012 - 2013

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    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    sounds like an old "somebody" who wants to be relevant again.

    this rise of clueless nationalism is widespread. I'm personally quite familiar with that BS in Turkey and Hungary. Every one is suddenly "nationalists", and anyone who dares to call them out is a traitor. what a world we're living in now.
    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

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    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    sounds like an old "somebody" who wants to be relevant again.

    this rise of clueless nationalism is widespread. I'm personally quite familiar with that BS in Turkey and Hungary. Every one is suddenly "nationalists", and anyone who dares to call them out is a traitor. what a world we're living in now.
    He's hatred amongst the people just to know.
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    Senior Member iskoch's Avatar
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    if something is bad; it’s people who think that nationalism is bad; not nationalism...

    personally i am a nationalist. my hatred list in this order;

    1. arab
    2. american
    3. french
    4. greek
    5. armenian
    6. kurd
    7. serbian
    8. german
    9. english
    10. bulgarian
    11. swiss
    12. belgian
    13. dutch

    of course i dont like these nations doesnt mean i hate everybody from these countries. i may like or even love individuals but individuals change nothing in the rest...
    world is not somewhere peaceful with beautiful blue sky and flowers in forests...
    every country has own interests, every government exists to serve a better life to it’s citizens...
    sometimes they kill people in other countries, sometimes use people there, sometimes bring their resources to their country.
    why?
    to serve a better life to their nations...
    hundreds of massacres and millions of dead in africa, south america, middle east brought the wealthy to europe and usa.
    people spend blood there, because their money is blood of millions, millions of poor people...
    and these fucking bloody money provides them a comfortable life while millions of people die for their beautiful life...

    we are a lot of people from turkey, greece, israel, serbia, lithuania, russia here.
    we all communicate in english here.
    this is english nationalism, english imperialism...
    or we use $ everywhere, this is american nationalism, american imperialism.

    but imperialists impose the world that nationalism is a shit, stay away from it...
    because nationalism is the biggest enemy of imperialism...

    if one day poor nations wake up and understand that nationalism is the only way to defend their rights, their labor, their resources and this is the only way for them to live a wealthy and peaceful beautiful life, it will be end of imperialism, end of 3-4 developed western countries...

    but “intellectual” idiots in every country stay against nationalist. these are ignorants that are not aware of how ignorant they...
    don’t take offence but who says that nationalism is something bad, he is an idiot in my eyes...
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    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    but “intellectual” idiots in every country stay against nationalist. these are ignorants that are not aware of how ignorant they...
    don’t take offence but who says that nationalism is something bad, he is an idiot in my eyes...
    I suggest that you read up on the negative conotation of "nationalism", It's funny how you claim that others are ignorant when some of the brightest minds of our world have expressed anti-nationalistic views.

    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    if one day poor nations wake up and understand that nationalism is the only way to defend their rights, their labor, their resources and this is the only way for them to live a wealthy and peaceful beautiful life, it will be end of imperialism, end of 3-4 developed western countries...
    Do you want to live a healthy and peaceful life on the expense of other people? Supporting your fellow man because he happened to be born in the same area as you is a concept that I can't wrap my head around.

    You know, that's the only arguments that nationalists make. "Make our country great by getting rid of everything foreign". Statistically this is bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    but imperialists impose the world that nationalism is a shit, stay away from it...
    because nationalism is the biggest enemy of imperialism...
    Either you have no idea what imperialism is, or you are completely confused on how things work. Being a nationalist reinforces imperialism. See the USA for example. US nationalists are happy that their country is the global pimp.
    On the other hand, being a nationalist in country A, makes you think that country B is after you, creating friction between countries A and B. This way, country B might express imperialistic ideas over country B, and son on and so forth. An endless cycle. You see how the Balkans are a complete mess because of countries wanting/defending their ground with historical ownership being very blurry.

    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    we are a lot of people from turkey, greece, israel, serbia, lithuania, russia here.
    we all communicate in english here.
    this is english nationalism, english imperialism...
    or we use $ everywhere, this is american nationalism, american imperialism.
    Ok, so now I'm sure you have no idea what imperialism is.

    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    if something is bad; it’s people who think that nationalism is bad; not nationalism...

    personally i am a nationalist. my hatred list in this order;

    1. arab
    2. american
    3. french
    ...
    After this comment, I'm afraid I can't continue the discussion with you. Talking about hatred towards countries, that's madness. I explained to you that the views of Pangalos are only shared by a few of empty headed nationalists that believe that Turkey is our enemy. Ideologies which are as perforated as swiss cheese (do you hate that too by the way?).

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    Yes I agree we should outlaw Olympic Games, world championships etc and all competitions that designate teams based on one’s nationality. We are all one global community and such delineations foster evil Nationalism.

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    Senior Member iskoch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    I suggest that you read up on the negative conotation of "nationalism", It's funny how you claim that others are ignorant when some of the brightest minds of our world have expressed anti-nationalistic views.
    what anti-nationalists wish is an utopia my friend..
    no place in cruel real world...
    if you are weak, strong will hammer you...
    isnt it same in wild nature too?


    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    Do you want to live a healthy and peaceful life on the expense of other people?
    it’s the only way...
    for example you live in the biggest ever terrorist organisation of the world, but happy to live in wealthy with bloody money.
    right?
    so, being anti-nationalist is easy for you...
    that terrorist organisation killed at least 10m poor people in last 20 years, and forced 15-20m people leave their homes...
    what did you or american nation do to stop it?
    nothing...


    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    Supporting your fellow man because he happened to be born in the same area as you is a concept that I can't wrap my head around.
    no, not because of this...
    you share same history, same future and same fate with these people.
    that’s why...


    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    You know, that's the only arguments that nationalists make. "Make our country great by getting rid of everything foreign". Statistically this is bullshit.
    i don’t think something like this...


    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    Either you have no idea what imperialism is, or you are completely confused on how things work. Being a nationalist reinforces imperialism. See the USA for example. US nationalists are happy that their country is the global pimp.
    do you know why the biggest ever terrorist in the world couldnt attack on iran?
    because they are a nation.
    they have a lot opposites of the regime but know what being a nation is...
    and they are ready to die to defend homeland...
    so, we cant say that being a nationalist reinforces imperialism.
    nationalism is the biggest enemy of imperialism...
    if you are a nation, nobody can exploit you, so simple...


    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    On the other hand, being a nationalist in country A, makes you think that country B is after you, creating friction between countries A and B. This way, country B might express imperialistic ideas over country B, and son on and so forth. An endless cycle. You see how the Balkans are a complete mess because of countries wanting/defending their ground with historical ownership being very blurry.
    there is a butcher in front of my office.
    so, a group of dogs live around...
    whenever passes another dog from this street, all together they attack him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    what anti-nationalists wish is an utopia my friend..
    no place in cruel real world...
    if you are weak, strong will hammer you...
    isnt it same in wild nature too?
    Fortunately, we don't live in a jungle though. We live in a society, and we help the ones that are less fortunate than us.

    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    it’s the only way...
    for example you live in the biggest ever terrorist organisation of the world, but happy to live in wealthy with bloody money.
    right?
    so, being anti-nationalist is easy for you...
    that terrorist organisation killed at least 10m poor people in last 20 years, and forced 15-20m people leave their homes...
    what did you or american nation do to stop it?
    nothing...
    I moved here 2 years ago When I was in Greece, I would take part in protests against the wars that the US would wage on Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Iraq.
    Your reasoning is completely flawed. You are mixing and confusing accusations, while questioning my choice to be an immigrant, away from my house and family as using blood money? What kind of thinking is that? I wish I would live wealthy though. I'm very far from that

    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    no, not because of this...
    you share same history, same future and same fate with these people.
    that’s why...
    Just because you share the same history, doesn't mean you same the same future and fate. That's very fatalist of you.
    Each is his own man. Our actions define us. Not what are fathers did. I share the same history with some of the greatest thinkers of the ancient world. Does that make me smart? Of course not. Does it make me proud? Of course not. We just happened to be born in the same geographical area. You can't be proud of something that is attributed to complete chance. Like George Carlin used to say:
    "Being Irish isn’t a skill. It’s a fucking genetic accident. You wouldn’t say, “I’m proud to be 5’11”. I’m proud to have a predisposition for colon cancer. So, why the fuck would you be proud to be Irish or proud to be Italian or American or anything? "
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOmQP9guIl0

    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    do you know why the biggest ever terrorist in the world couldnt attack on iran?
    I'll set aside the fact that your simplistic argument doesn't take into account the delicate diplomatic issues of this conflict, and tell you that one major reason is that they don't know what's going on with the nuclear program that Iran possesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    so, we cant say that being a nationalist reinforces imperialism.
    Your arguments did nothing in (dis)proving this implication.

    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    whenever passes another dog from this street, all together they attack him.
    That's your dream world?

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    Senior Member iskoch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    I moved here 2 years ago When I was in Greece, I would take part in protests against the wars that the US would wage on Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Iraq.
    Your reasoning is completely flawed. You are mixing and confusing accusations, while questioning my choice to be an immigrant, away from my house and family as using blood money? What kind of thinking is that? I wish I would live wealthy though. I'm very far from that
    i want a meditarrenean cruize, but dont realize...

    if eu presidents send their identity details, bank details, how much they earn, finger-print; to me to visit their countries, i will go. but i wont give them my details to visit their countries...

    if you dont like usa, wouldnt live there too...


    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    Just because you share the same history, doesn't mean you same the same future and fate. That's very fatalist of you.
    Each is his own man. Our actions define us. Not what are fathers did. I share the same history with some of the greatest thinkers of the ancient world. Does that make me smart? Of course not. Does it make me proud? Of course not. We just happened to be born in the same geographical area. You can't be proud of something that is attributed to complete chance. Like George Carlin used to say:
    "Being Irish isn’t a skill. It’s a fucking genetic accident. You wouldn’t say, “I’m proud to be 5’11”. I’m proud to have a predisposition for colon cancer. So, why the fuck would you be proud to be Irish or proud to be Italian or American or anything? "
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOmQP9guIl0
    i wish you had a chance to ask poor people that died in america’s terror acts, if they shared the same fate or not...

    i guess you left greece due to financial reasons, and i am sure that a lot of people shared the same fate in your country due to economical crisis...


    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    That's your dream world?
    will you cheer for us if we take islands from greece?
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    Anyway, this conversation leads nowhere. We have no common ground to build an argument constructively. The way I see it, everything is a mess in your head, you need to straighten things out before making statements because you condradict your own ideas. This is my last post here and i'll leave you with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    will you cheer for us if we take islands from greece?
    Generally I don't give a shit about borders and nationalities but seeing how it would make nationalistic imperialist Turks happy, I would oppose it. I would also do the same if Greece wanted Istanbul back by the way. If it makes greek fascists happy, I'm against it

    Hope we can have better basketball discussions in the future. See you around.

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    Senior Member iskoch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    Anyway, this conversation leads nowhere. We have no common ground to build an argument constructively. The way I see it, everything is a mess in your head, you need to straighten things out before making statements because you condradict your own ideas. This is my last post here and i'll leave you with this:



    Generally I don't give a shit about borders and nationalities but seeing how it would make nationalistic imperialist Turks happy, I would oppose it. I would also do the same if Greece wanted Istanbul back by the way. If it makes greek fascists happy, I'm against it

    Hope we can have better basketball discussions in the future. See you around.
    I liked you although you are a Greek.
    Then we can say that the only good Greek is an anti-nationalist Greek.
    I guess nationalist Greeks think the same about anti-nationalist Turks. lol

    See you...
    Republic of FENERBAHÇE

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