Fiba World Cup 2023 Philippines

[DenzelGreat8]

I have no idea if it willl play an affect on who gets in on the team but Kiefer is gonna be a global Jordan brand athlete like Guo

Kiefer as Jordan brand ambassador?

[Tuck]

Kiefer as Jordan brand ambassador?

Yes....

[lurklurk]

Kai at the 4, balti at the 5. There’s your point of difference.

[IPC]

Speaking of Arvin, he might be a good Swinger also... Not bad defensively actually and can rise up ro make those chase down blocks... Medyo may problem laterally running after quick guards like Casteo and Parks last night but can handle other e guys on Penetrations..Its a plus that he is a deadly 3 shooter and good enough handles. HEAD scratcher that Mike was chosen over him in the Cadets draft... Arvin would definitely be bettee than Navarro and Javi in this Gilas pool..

Arvin's actually a 23 for 2023 player. Hope he can develop further into a second option to Pringle or maybe even to Brownlee. He has the talent, just needs the consistency. I might add, looks like Cone taught him well on defense. His instincts are OK now. He's a perfect small-ball 4. He can even play as a 3.

Hope Chua can lend him in future international competitions. He'll be an asset.

[paulrenzo]

Yes....

Regardless of his skill/condition come 2023, He'll most likely make the lineup.

IMO, it's not really a problem, since he's not exactly a slouch. And worst case, make him a third string PG.

[NOiNU]

^
Actually every time i watch Pinoy basketball, i really do not see a traditional legit size PF playing anywhere , literally wala!
so i don't know where this confidence comes from , that all of a sudden we will hugot a center and tell him to play 4 right away and hope he will be effective, ive never seen that work... walang exposure to the role tapos we expect him to be effective... it defies logic

The 4/5 positions are interchangeable now more than ever. There’s a reason why basketball pundits collectively calls them bigs these days. The most important defining factor between the two positions lies on the defensive side, the mobility to defend perimeter players and the length that goes with it to contain the PnR. Then again, both the 4 and 5 are tasked and expected to be rim protectors and decent perimeter defenders as well, owing to the pace and space nature of the modern game. On the offensive side, where you are put is largely dependent on coaches’ perceptions of your best skill.

Now when you argue solely on the basis of a decent sized perimeter player as a 4, then that’s when the roles get’s more defined. That’s of course a defensive matchup problem. But seeing you put Kai as a 4 and continuously pick on his weakness of containing the perimeter on the other hand, that’s an oxymoron. Look at lurklurk’s post regarding point of difference. That sums up the contradictions. Your being overly passionate about repetition has clouded your judgement that you think Kai could play the 4 but is allergic to the same concept with a more mobile, more agile player in AJ Edu.

[analyzed]

Kai at the 4, balti at the 5. There’s your point of difference.

The reality is in terms of reps as a stretch big offensively, I think Kai will actually get the most reps

[DenzelGreat8]

Yes....

That's nice to know man. Kaya pala magkakaron ng Jordan outlet here in the Phil. Getting Kiefer as the brand ambassador ala Guo is a nice way to tap the Phil market even MORE. Kiefer knows how to promote, props to the kid for knowing the intricacies of the business side of basketball.

[analyzed]

The 4/5 positions are interchangeable now more than ever. There’s a reason why basketball pundits collectively calls them bigs these days. The most important defining factor between the two positions lies on the defensive side, the mobility to defend perimeter players and the length that goes with it to contain the PnR. Then again, both the 4 and 5 are tasked and expected to be rim protectors and decent perimeter defenders as well, owing to the pace and space nature of the modern game. On the offensive side, where you are put is largely dependent on coaches’ perceptions of your best skill.

.

Now when you argue solely on the basis of a decent sized perimeter player as a 4, then that’s when the roles get’s more defined. That’s of course a defensive matchup problem. But seeing you put Kai as a 4 and continuously pick on his weakness of containing the perimeter on the other hand, that’s an oxymoron. Look at lurklurk’s post regarding point of difference. That sums up the contradictions. Your being overly passionate about repetition has clouded your judgement that you think Kai could play the 4 but is allergic to the same concept with a more mobile, more agile player in AJ Edu.

I disagree, if there are 2 positions in recent times that has biggest change in terms of similarities its the 4 and 5 spot. The 4 spot actually is more similar to the 3 spot than it is the 5 spot in recent trends
It used to be the 4 spot is a big man position, no longer it is now more commonly called the Tall forward (Tatum like). Of course I'm not talking absolute but generally this is the trend

I'm talking about using Kai as 4 on offense only (situational) and hide him and partner big on defensively on the perimeter

The only reason we're talking about Kai at 4 on offense only is the lack of size from Filipinos who have a face up stretch game. This is not a discussion about what Kai's true position is and no one in the US with abundance of Tall players with perimeter skills will need to use Kai as a 4 like the Philippines needs to we're talking about using Kai limited to Gilas for FiBA, 2nd tier to Asian level only (not NBA players),

[NOiNU]

The reality is in terms of reps as a stretch big offensively, I think Kai will actually get the most reps

Offensively? If you’ve been paying attention there’s literally nothing that separates stretch 4s and 5s on that side. Even a slow assed Jokic attacks the closeout, doesn’t matter when he’s paired with Plumlee or Grant.

[NOiNU]

I disagree, if there are 2 positions in recent times that has biggest change in terms of similarities its the 4 and 5 spot. The 4 spot actually is more similar to the 3 spot than it is the 5 spot
It used to be the 4 spot is a big man position, no longer it is now more commonly called the Tall forward (Tatum like). Of course I'm not talking absolute but generally this is the trend

I’ve said the same. The role gets more defined if we talk about that in that context. Read it again.

Doesn’t change the fact you are banking on Kai but not on a quicker, more agile Edu to play the role. I get it, repetition. Never mind the physical attributes.

[lurklurk]

I disagree, if there are 2 positions in recent times that has biggest change in terms of similarities its the 4 and 5 spot. The 4 spot actually is more similar to the 3 spot than it is the 5 spot
It used to be the 4 spot is a big man position, no longer it is now more commonly called the Tall forward (Tatum like). Of course I'm not talking absolute but generally this is the trend

At some point, wont there be a contradiction between going with the trend (looking for our tall forward) vs maximizing our point of difference?

Talking about point of difference, i think our guard skills is still front and center especially now that we can field clarkson-parks-ramos. Objective of our frontcourt rotation is just to contain their counterparts while stretching the floor on offense for our guards. Kai and a 3&D big should work.

[analyzed]

Offensively? If you’ve been paying attention there’s literally nothing that separates stretch 4s and 5s on that side. Even a slow assed Jokic attacks the closeout, doesn’t matter when he’s paired with Plumlee or Grant.

Kuzma, Crowder, Tatum, KD these are all modern day 4s (the norm), there is nothing similar with those guys with an NBA center. You're thinking Davis, reality is he is now not a traditional PF anymore, but a normal big

As mentioned previously the trend description are

5. The one and only big
4., the Tall forward

[NOiNU]

Kuzma, Crowder, Tatum, KD these are all modern day 4s (the norm), there is nothing similar with those guys with an NBA center. You're thinking Davis, reality is he is now not a traditional PF anymore, but a normal big

As mentioned previously the trend description are

5. The one and only big
4., the Tall forward

Nasabi ko na rin nga yan. Basa ulit, dun sa part na sinabi ko yung dun sa decent sized perimeter player. That was them.

If the point isn’t clear to you, notice the Jokic example. Playing with Grant, he’s a 5. But with Plumlee he’s a 4, or at worse an interchangeable piece if you’re comfortable at pegging Plumlee as a 4. Can he replicate what Tatum could do? No. Can he play the 4? Yes.

Reread that reply you quoted. It is specifically stated, stretch 4s and stretch 5s. The players you are mentioning are not stretch 4s but combo forwards, if you wanna be precise technically.

[IPC]

Here's my take on this. I've said this a lot.

General rule is wing at the 4, like Crowder, Tatum, KD in the NBA, or Abueva, Aljon/Dillinger/Arvin, Javi, Kobe, Navarro, Oftana in the local setting.

However, if we have the size to competently match up, like for example an Edu type, and we feel that this offers a bigger advantage for us than if we go small, we go big.