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  • Originally posted by mathematicianrcg View Post
    Hahahaha.

    Just because I use the term "sayang" instead of "sana" the argument prolong.

    Anyway, We all wish the best for the National Team.

    Either "Sayang, di tayo pinili" or "Sana tayo ang pinili". Both will end up to not forming the best lineup we could form.

    But if nothing else we can do. Then, we need to use our own resources.

    At the end of the day. The best for National Team is the hope for all of us
    Sorry about that lol. I just wanted to say that we cant really feel regret of losing these players to ineligibility because they weren’t ours from the get go. We really should use our own resources from the very start. Sorry it has lead to this lol

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    • Originally posted by qwertyz View Post
      Sorry about that lol. I just wanted to say that we cant really feel regret of losing these players to ineligibility because they weren’t ours from the get go. We really should use our own resources from the very start. Sorry it has lead to this lol
      No worries.

      I think your definition of "sayang" is like if

      "Lebron Lopez play for Angola after we develop him here in the Philippines"


      Well it is true."Mas sayang yun". Hahahaha

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      • Brandon has all the time in the world but opted not to get RP passport before the age of 16.. like some of us always say some fil-foreign players and parents have different priorities in life. They have reasons not to do it.. would you blame me and my future son or daughter if he/she didn't get RP passport? My kid has reasons and i can't blame my kid..
        Philippine Malditas to FIFA Womens World Cup 2023

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        • Originally posted by astigram04
          Since you claimed that Brandon was being recruited in 2014 yet he refused. Isnt that unfair judgement and at the same time fake news.


          Look, I don't really mind if your perspective is "sayang" are the likes of kouame (if thry emd up playing for their own country) who even tho has no Filipino roots at all but were developed here while these players born and raised overseas who has Filipino roots but aren't eligible because they didnt acquire their passports before 16 arent sayang because we didn't spend a cent to develop them. Id respect that perspective even tho I do not agree, thats your preference and that's fine. But for you guys to say I hope these other people who think otherwise reads this so they get educated? E ang yabang yabang nyo daw pala sabi ni quiboloy
          Lol the guy who started this whole conversation agrees. If a player produced and developed by the Philippines and has the intent of playing for the national team, all of a sudden plays for whatever country that is sayang. “Mas sayang” pa nga daw. Ben Mbala was already 17 and a first year college student when he played here. Ange Kouame was 15 and a high school student when he got here. Ange Kouame showed interests playing for the Philippines when he was young. His mom was vocal about it too.

          Philippines is the only country in the world that has Basketball Programs in other countries. Philippines can get players from Japan, Australia, Italy, New Zealand, Ireland, Canada and of course USA as long as they have filipino blood. We may be the only country that has some sort of ‘recruitment factory’ from a number of countries. We’re the only country with that sort of advantage lol. Yet, you still cry over these ‘sayang’ filams. Do we need more filipino associations from other countries? Do we need all of these filams to play for us? Kulang pa ba? Even if it was just some sort of pc comment? Do you expect them to say no when they are asked? Of course they’ll say thats an option. SAYANG ang unti lang ng filipino associations from different countries. Wala ba sa Africa? SAYANG talaga. Favour nalang na may nakukuha tayo from other countries, To cover up Our poor grassroots program. We wouldn’t need to do that if our grassroots program was at least useful.

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          • day 3 of sayang-serye ��

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            • The pinoy nt will still need these filfors until it can steadily train 3-5 pinoy a year through the tsf-ewp program. There is no such thing as a grassroots program ( where is it? who runs it? who are employed for it? it who graduated from it?). High school and college development remains hopeless, as it is still every student for himself to develop, and no credible asian/world-grade competitors will ever be available for at least one hundred years more.

              There will be a lot more local pinoys in the nt if several dozens graduate from two-year tsf-ewp training programs. That will still be more than five years from now.

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              • Originally posted by ccharmed View Post
                The pinoy nt will still need these filfors until it can steadily train 3-5 pinoy a year through the tsf-ewp program. There is no such thing as a grassroots program ( where is it? who runs it? who are employed for it? it who graduated from it?). High school and college development remains hopeless, as it is still every student for himself to develop, and no credible asian/world-grade competitors will ever be available for at least one hundred years more.

                There will be a lot more local pinoys in the nt if several dozens graduate from two-year tsf-ewp training programs. That will still be more than five years from now.
                Who is it? As far as we know, the ewp-tsf route is not initiated by pinoy nt or SBP. What is SBP doing?

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                • Originally posted by lurklurk View Post
                  Who is it? As far as we know, the ewp-tsf route is not initiated by pinoy nt or SBP. What is SBP doing?
                  Yes it is not the sbp or any local baller organization. Thus, the attempt to show that there is some kind of focus in forming pinoy nts is just a story. The tsf-ewp program indirectly will be the key to a strong nt. The program can make money from talented pinoys and filfors. Their money-generating potential increases if tsf-ewp trainees have very good showing in tough fiba or olympic tournaments, and nba drafts. A win-win situation.

                  Other than direct volunteers like gs, the other nt members will again be whoever is made available.

                  As for those who like a lot of internally trained pinoys in the nt, which 2023 candidates among them are at least in the asian competitiveness levels of guys like hachimura, watanabe and those numerous aussie nba players?

                  Apparently "participation to gain experience" and some embarrassing beatdowns will still be acceptable. The best route to strengthen is still to suggest the most number of talented pinoy and filfor players for tsf-ewp "adoption" every year. The sbp will just organize tournaments as it is not well funded at all.

                  It really makes great sense to have just the well funded baller programs organize the nt. Im not from ateneo, but i think just letting ateneo organize and train the nt with its player choices is the smartest way to form a strong nt.

                  It is actually very easy to determine the best pinoy nt candidates. Who are top 2-3 fiba asia pgs and who are the pinoys who have the fiba or other credible stats to prove they are a match or better than these good players. Then you do this for each remaining position. For instance, hachimura and watanabe are 6'8 small forward and shooting guard, respectively, in the nba. Which pinoy sf and sg in 2023 can at least neutralize these two?

                  By the way, the "it" was grammatically correct in usage. I very clearly said the nt is the "it" and "it" needs filfors and to train these filfors for nt duties. I missed the part where "it" was referring to something else.
                  Last edited by ccharmed; 07-15-2020, 03:10 PM.

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                  • Blackwater eyes PBA exit, puts franchise up for sale for P150M
                    Blackwater Elite team owner Dioceldo Sy on Wednesday said he’s putting his six-year-old PBA franchise up for sale.

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                    • Originally posted by astigram04
                      Do you think he knew of the "before" 16 rule? The other poster here is claiming that Chot reached out to him in 2014 and at that time he's already 20 years old. Even harper who has inquired about playing for the NT has misunderstood it as by 16
                      For sure he knew but opted not to do it..
                      Philippine Malditas to FIFA Womens World Cup 2023

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                      • Originally posted by ccharmed View Post
                        Yes it is not the sbp or any local baller organization. Thus, the attempt to show that there is some kind of focus in forming pinoy nts is just a story. The tsf-ewp program indirectly will be the key to a strong nt. The program can make money from talented pinoys and filfors. Their money-generating potential increases if tsf-ewp trainees have very good showing in tough fiba or olympic tournaments, and nba drafts. A win-win situation.

                        Other than direct volunteers like gs, the other nt members will again be whoever is made available.

                        As for those who like a lot of internally trained pinoys in the nt, which 2023 candidates among them are at least in the asian competitiveness levels of guys like hachimura, watanabe and those numerous aussie nba players?

                        Apparently "participation to gain experience" and some embarrassing beatdowns will still be acceptable. The best route to strengthen is still to suggest the most number of talented pinoy and filfor players for tsf-ewp "adoption" every year. The sbp will just organize tournaments as it is not well funded at all.

                        It really makes great sense to have just the well funded baller programs organize the nt. Im not from ateneo, but i think just letting ateneo organize and train the nt with its player choices is the smartest way to form a strong nt.

                        It is actually very easy to determine the best pinoy nt candidates. Who are top 2-3 fiba asia pgs and who are the pinoys who have the fiba or other credible stats to prove they are a match or better than these good players. Then you do this for each remaining position. For instance, hachimura and watanabe are 6'8 small forward and shooting guard, respectively, in the nba. Which pinoy sf and sg in 2023 can at least neutralize these two?

                        By the way, the "it" was grammatically correct in usage. I very clearly said the nt is the "it" and "it" needs filfors and to train these filfors for nt duties. I missed the part where "it" was referring to something else.
                        SBP (particularly Gilas program director) already has a good handle on how to form the NT. They already know the main hurdle/s (PBA) and have tried different approaches to know which ones they can rely on.

                        Saying that it is "actually very easy", i think that's a little arrogant sir and unfair to SBP. Competition for each roster spot is much closer than we think. More often than not, decision comes down to familiarity with the system. Not skill or matchup.

                        What i am more interested is your take on who should spearhead the partnership with TSF/EWP to "steadily train 3-5 pinoy a year". In your initial statement, you were referring to "pinoy NT". But pinoy NT's responsibility is winning the games (from building the coaching staff, building the team, scouting the opponents, preparing gameplans,, etc), not player development or grassroots program. This responsibility should fall to a separate entity, hence my question, who is it?

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                        • Originally posted by astigram04
                          Wow this is on a totally different level
                          Well up to you.. different people, different priorities.. all fil-foreigns are..

                          Heard sbp tried to get fil-belgian wing guy but he mentioned he wants to make the cut for belgian u16 NT. But he didn't make it. I don't know if sbp contact him or the fil-belgian wing contact sbp after he got cut
                          Last edited by Silent Killer; 07-15-2020, 07:19 PM.
                          Philippine Malditas to FIFA Womens World Cup 2023

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                          • Originally posted by lurklurk View Post
                            SBP (particularly Gilas program director) already has a good handle on how to form the NT. They already know the main hurdle/s (PBA) and have tried different approaches to know which ones they can rely on.

                            Saying that it is "actually very easy", i think that's a little arrogant sir and unfair to SBP. Competition for each roster spot is much closer than we think. More often than not, decision comes down to familiarity with the system. Not skill or matchup.

                            What i am more interested is your take on who should spearhead the partnership with TSF/EWP to "steadily train 3-5 pinoy a year". In your initial statement, you were referring to "pinoy NT". But pinoy NT's responsibility is winning the games (from building the coaching staff, building the team, scouting the opponents, preparing gameplans,, etc), not player development or grassroots program. This responsibility should fall to a separate entity, hence my question, who is it?
                            Oh now the nt are just the players and the coach only? How can the nt exist without the sbp as automatic part of it? It was created to handle the nt wasnt it? So, who manages, finances and organizes the nt then?

                            Perhaps it was you who was a bit more than arrogant. I already posted that private institutions, even with profit motives, are possibly the best developers of nt players as schools are not the best routes for developing good baller habits and breaking bad habits too. This tsf-ewp venture does not require pinoy financing and support, eg, from the sbp.

                            Again, the grammar was clear. It is the nt organization - players, coaches, financiers and organizers who is the "it".

                            Trying to nitpick other posters to identify other "its" was just your style. None are volunteering "its" during these covidized times, as pinoy "spearhead" corporate donors very likely have other financing priorities. The "spearhead" was already mentioned - the tsf-ewp or similar private or foreign programs which can possibly finance development of 3-5 pinoy or filfor players a year, with or without interventions from others. That also was grammatically clear.

                            So answer then your own question, "who is it?" that should be it. Challenging other posters to do it is not it.

                            I did find your argument to ignore credible matchups with elite asian players per position very interesting. It is the first time ive heard about the sanity, or lack thereof, in ignoring per-position matchups in building competitive teams, that as you recognize can win. And yes, identifying matchup qualities is very easy, as there are not many nt candidates and most of them have pba or school records. If the matchup analyses are not favorable, then fans can be realistically informed where matchup problems are serious, and perhaps call for a "naturalized" player in the riskiest position.

                            What is it about matchup analyses that you find "arrogant" or unfair to sbp? Any baller fan naturally does this for their favorite players, eg, who is supposed to stop fajardo in the pba. It is you who are too prickly -- i never expected the sbp, with its few funds, to come up with winning nts on its own. And that was why private initiatives like the tsf-ewp are needed.

                            As for "familiarity with the system", i even suggested that perhaps a private team with a credible system already in place like ateneo should handle national team formation. See? No sbp even -- if the funding support is that bad today as very likely it is. It could be la salle, nu, ust or up next time.

                            Fans may fret that ateneo did not select their favorite players, eg a romeo or a perez. But the players themselves will be very realistic and recognize that a big nt pool is too expensive in the covid age, and familiarity with a chosen nt system is the main consideration.

                            Your no-matchup suggestion exactly is the argument for saying that the nt instead should use whoever is available.
                            Last edited by ccharmed; 07-15-2020, 11:59 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by ccharmed View Post
                              Oh now the nt are just the players and the coach only? How can the nt exist without the sbp as automatic part of it? It was created to handle the nt wasnt it? So, who manages, finances and organizes nt then?

                              Perhaps it was you who was a bit more than arrogant. I already posted that private institutions, even with profit motives, are possibly the best developers of nt players as schools are not the best routes for developing good baller habits and breaking bad habits too.

                              Again, the grammar was clear. It is the nt organization - players, coaches, financiers and organizers is the "it".

                              Trying to nitpick other posters to identify other "its" was just your view. None are volunteering "its" during these covidized times.

                              So answer then your own question, "who is it?".
                              woah the hostility! Anyway--

                              No, NT is not the players and coach only. NT is NT, players, coach, staff, management. SBP is not a subset of NT, NT is a program of SBP (that's why it has its own program director). SBP can also have other programs, and that's my point--SBP should create a player development template for the country and treat as another program with maybe its own program director.

                              My apologies that it sounded like nitpicking or like i'm attaking you, that's not the intention. The question is actually just a question because im curious about the expectations of the general public in regards to player development.

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                              • The general public will always worry and criticize. No nt ever pleased anyone. What the philippine sponsors can afford or like as a group is it. This is not about hostility. I was actually amused about the sbp and matchup things.

                                Sponsors? The best ones today would be the black swan hedge fund managers, like diego parilla (not pinoy). They make good money on economies crashing, hyperinflation, gold crushing fiat currencies like the usd, etc. There really are people who make good money in bad times, eg, mask/ppe manufacturers, tin can and staple food suppliers (there are massive runs on boxes of canned drinks, flour, pasta and rice in the usa already), etc who can be sponsors. Private hospitals also do not lose money during pandemics.

                                If i and my friends have a hundred million or more usds to bet and invest, we would sponsor the nt too. There is good money today in the pessimism business, and i certainly will bet big time on black swan disasters, hoarding of physical gold, investment in prepper/ food hoarders' supplier firms, etc.

                                Managers of vulture funds too. Central banks around the world have been very irresponsible, and created conditions for ultramega catastrophes.
                                Last edited by ccharmed; 07-16-2020, 01:10 AM.

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