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Thread: Fiba World Cup 2023 Philippines

  1. #721
    Senior Member thatweirdguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allan_373 View Post
    My point is what happens to Tab Baldwin and Rajko Toroman,They have FIBA Experiences,they lead our national team last year,only Chot Reyes makes it to beat one team in FIBA which I remembered is Senegal.I think Tim Cone has a capability like Chot Reyes,
    That WC team was probably our best formed GILAS team. JC and Blatche were in their prime. Guys like RDO,Ping, Chan, Gabe were slightly past their prime but still playable and their game were made for the international game. It sucks that we weren't able to find suitable replacements for those guys..

    TC doesn't have the international experience that Chot has. Remember Chot has been in the international scene for a long time.

  2. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatweirdguy View Post
    That WC team was probably our best formed GILAS team. JC and Blatche were in their prime. Guys like RDO,Ping, Chan, Gabe were slightly past their prime but still playable and their game were made for the international game. It sucks that we weren't able to find suitable replacements for those guys..

    TC doesn't have the international experience that Chot has. Remember Chot has been in the international scene for a long time.
    Yes. And it is a neccessity that our gilas 2023 will be 2x or 3x better than 2014 world cup.


    It will have 3 nba players Kai/Edu/JC, potentially 4 if jc will be considered local. We have very talented young players that it is not in pba.
    They must be get by gilas before pba put them into cage.

    In a perfect world, SBP,PBA,MVP,SMC will sacrifice and ignore their rivalry in the sake of our reputation as host in fiba 2023

    Gilas must train for a YEAR, yes a YEAR. That is the only way we can compete against top 10.

    We have talent, we almost beat an argentina team 2014 that is better than the argentina that place 2nd last year. Shows you that we have the talent to belong in top 10 in basketball

  3. #723
    Senior Member NOiNU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathematicianrcg View Post
    Yes. And it is a neccessity that our gilas 2023 will be 2x or 3x better than 2014 world cup.


    It will have 3 nba players Kai/Edu/JC, potentially 4 if jc will be considered local. We have very talented young players that it is not in pba.
    They must be get by gilas before pba put them into cage.

    In a perfect world, SBP,PBA,MVP,SMC will sacrifice and ignore their rivalry in the sake of our reputation as host in fiba 2023

    Gilas must train for a YEAR, yes a YEAR. That is the only way we can compete against top 10.

    We have talent, we almost beat an argentina team 2014 that is better than the argentina that place 2nd last year. Shows you that we have the talent to belong in top 10 in basketball
    I admire your optimism that both Edu and Kai are NBA bound. However, I think we should hold our horses here and not view (and declare) it as something imminent.

    How is 2014 Argentina better than their last WC team?
    Never look too far ahead. You might stumble on a block right in front of you.

  4. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatweirdguy View Post
    That WC team was probably our best formed GILAS team. JC and Blatche were in their prime. Guys like RDO,Ping, Chan, Gabe were slightly past their prime but still playable and their game were made for the international game. It sucks that we weren't able to find suitable replacements for those guys..

    TC doesn't have the international experience that Chot has. Remember Chot has been in the international scene for a long time.
    Aside from the better preparation, Chot found a formula that worked like magic and it's not a triangle offence. We know the triangle doesn't cut for the international games, it never worked. I seriously didn't expect Tim cone to ever be suggested here in IBN, thought it only happens on Facebook. No hate but Tim is outdated

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    Quote Originally Posted by astigram04 View Post
    Aside from the better preparation, Chot found a formula that worked like magic and it's not a triangle offence. We know the triangle doesn't cut for the international games, it never worked. I seriously didn't expect Tim cone to ever be suggested here in IBN, thought it only happens on Facebook. No hate but Tim is outdated
    The best tool of chot why they perform well in fiba world cup 2014 is the element of surprise, basketball world are not familiar in philippines during that time, notice after that, our performance start to decline because we are already scouted and chot nothing to offer more

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlon View Post
    The best tool of chot why they perform well in fiba world cup 2014 is the element of surprise, basketball world are not familiar in philippines during that time, notice after that, our performance start to decline because we are already scouted and chot nothing to offer more
    The element of surprise will always be one of the weapons in international basketball but I will not use that to downplay what our squad achieved there. After they almost beat Croatia which happened to be our first opponent, the next teams to play sure reviewed the game tape. And ironically, the lone game we won was even the last game we played. That squad was pretty well prepared, the next tournaments they were practicing for a just a few days and blatche neve showed up with the same form

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOiNU View Post
    I admire your optimism that both Edu and Kai are NBA bound. However, I think we should hold our horses here and not view (and declare) it as something imminent.

    How is 2014 Argentina better than their last WC team?
    2014 Argentina is better than 2019 Argentina.

    2014 have ACTIVE NBA Players and a Slightly Prime Scola. 2019 team have a VERY OLD SCOLA as their BEST player.

    It is just there are better teams in 2014 than 2019. So 2019 finishes better.

    Kai and Edu are sureball nba draftees/players barring injuries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astigram04 View Post
    The element of surprise will always be one of the weapons in international basketball but I will not use that to downplay what our squad achieved there. After they almost beat Croatia which happened to be our first opponent, the next teams to play sure reviewed the game tape. And ironically, the lone game we won was even the last game we played. That squad was pretty well prepared, the next tournaments they were practicing for a just a few days and blatche neve showed up with the same form
    As far as I remember greece was our 2nd opponent. And they did scouted us well. They beat us by 12-15 points?

    Argentina,Puerto Rico failed to scout us. I think they try to copy greece playstyle but they dont have the personnel. So they decided to just play their game.

    Senegal and african teams are in the same level as Philippines. Philippines is even better than ivory coast. Nigeria is the only african team that is better than philipines.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathematicianrcg View Post
    As far as I remember greece was our 2nd opponent. And they did scouted us well. They beat us by 12-15 points?

    Argentina,Puerto Rico failed to scout us. I think they try to copy greece playstyle but they dont have the personnel. So they decided to just play their game.

    Senegal and african teams are in the same level as Philippines. Philippines is even better than ivory coast. Nigeria is the only african team that is better than philipines.
    Greece played us the next day, Argentina and the other teams had longer time to get those materials to study our plays. You can't simply assume that they failed to scout us because it will fit your argument while common sense dictates that they have reason to scout us closely and they had the time to do so, more than greece actually.

    Oh the Senegal argument, if we use the logic you used to prove that 2014 Argentina was better than the 2019 Argentina because there were more nba players then, then Senegal should be a very strong team. I think they had at least 2 nba veterans while we had just 1. And Senegal actually finished much higher than us, 16th compared to 21st. Nigeria didn't even qualify. The other Africas that qualified were Angola, finished 17th and Egypt, finished dead last.
    Last edited by astigram04; 03-11-2020 at 04:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by curtaincall View Post
    Hmmm so based on what youíre saying.

    PG: Remy Martin/
    SG: Jordan Clarkson/CJ Perez
    SF: Chris McCullough/
    PF: AJ Edu/
    C: Kai Sotto/Ange Kouame

    Then just plug in the kiefer cadet core. Ray Parks Jr., Kiefer Ravena, Troy Rosario, RR Pogoy, Matthew Wright. Then some of the current cadets Thirdy Ravena, Juan GDL, Javi GDL, Dwight Ramos, Kobe Paras. Also some of the past gilas players who could still be serviceable such as June Mar Fajardo, Poy Erram,Robert Bolick, Terrence Romeo, Ian Sangalang and Raymond Almazan. Then we have ourselves a (dream)pool.
    You are forgetting about Jarod Lucas.

    He is a freshman at Oregon State right now, in the Pac-12, he is probably a top 5 Filipino shooter right now, and we all saw last year how the team needs shooters.
    He just hit the game winner in the Pac-12 tournament for his team to advance to the next round.

    He should be on the team in 3 years imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tootch View Post
    plus tim cone’s team are mostly veterans so more matured and experienced. won by 27 i think (indonesians fans think they are catching up). while dickel’s team mostly inexperienced with the help of coach tab won by 30. mostly pinoy hoop fans thinks a hall of fame coach in the PBA will be good in international game.lol. what if Coach Tim was the head coach of the 1st window team for a two weeks of practice. we all know he’s depending more on veterans and not good developing young players.
    Tim Cone also picked some players with more international experience.

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatweirdguy View Post
    That WC team was probably our best formed GILAS team. JC and Blatche were in their prime. Guys like RDO,Ping, Chan, Gabe were slightly past their prime but still playable and their game were made for the international game. It sucks that we weren't able to find suitable replacements for those guys..

    TC doesn't have the international experience that Chot has. Remember Chot has been in the international scene for a long time.
    I agree. They were phenomenal to watch to even when they lost games.

    I think the only downside with Chot is, he is less firm in international plays. I mean, he could have insisted that FIBA control the game with Australia before the start off the game since the tension was already brewing...when he told the player "just don't mind it". It went downhill. And FIBA refs aren't exactly the best either.

    There was a game in the Jones cup, I think it was 2016 against a third-rate Russian team and things were escalating just in the first few minutes. (This was when some Russian players were ganging up on Terrence Romeo)

    But Tab Baldwin insisted with the officials to control the game before it gets uglier and he regrouped with Gilas on how to address the rather weird temper of some Russians.

    Filipino coaches need to be assertive than reactive(when things go down).

  13. #733
    Senior Member NOiNU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathematicianrcg View Post
    2014 Argentina is better than 2019 Argentina.

    2014 have ACTIVE NBA Players and a Slightly Prime Scola. 2019 team have a VERY OLD SCOLA as their BEST player.

    It is just there are better teams in 2014 than 2019. So 2019 finishes better.

    Kai and Edu are sureball nba draftees/players barring injuries.
    11th place compared to 1st runner up? Sorry, but you can do better than gauging a team’s strength by name recognition and throwing out another baseless claim of having stronger teams back then to complement that narrative. If a team’s strength is determined by the number of NBA players, the 2019 edition has no business beating Australia, much more ending up 2nd place.

    If you think Edu is a surefire NBA player, then so be it. I’m hoping he would be but I’m not banking on it.
    Never look too far ahead. You might stumble on a block right in front of you.

  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOiNU View Post
    11th place compared to 1st runner up? Sorry, but you can do better than gauging a teamís strength by name recognition and throwing out another baseless claim of having stronger teams back then to complement that narrative. If a teamís strength is determined by the number of NBA players, the 2019 edition has no business beating Australia, much more ending up 2nd place.

    If you think Edu is a surefire NBA player, then so be it. Iím hoping he would be but Iím not banking on it.
    You just supported my argument that there is more talented teams in 2014. Australia and Serbia(With nba players) was beaten by Argentina(No nba players). In 2019.

    2014 has elite to average nba players. 2019 has borderline to average nba players. In fact the best players in 2019 are Gasol,Scola, Jokic, Fournier. 2014 have all star team usa, strong spain team, etc.

    I think all of us will agree that 2014 have more talented teams/players than 2019. Hence better competition.

    Are you saying that 2019 fiba world cup is more competitive than 2014?

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    Quote Originally Posted by astigram04 View Post
    Greece played us the next day, Argentina and the other teams had longer time to get those materials to study our plays. You can't simply assume that they failed to scout us because it will fit your argument while common sense dictates that they have reason to scout us closely and they had the time to do so, more than greece actually.

    Oh the Senegal argument, if we use the logic you used to prove that 2014 Argentina was better than the 2019 Argentina because there were more nba players then, then Senegal should be a very strong team. I think they had at least 2 nba veterans while we had just 1. And Senegal actually finished much higher than us, 16th compared to 21st. Nigeria didn't even qualify. The other Africas that qualified were Angola, finished 17th and Egypt, finished dead last.
    Sure. But you forget that Blatche is a better nba player than the 2 senegal nba players. Thats why I said 2014 has better teams. Even Gilas have a better team. I am not saying senegal is a bad team. Just because I level up gilas with them doesnt mean they are weak. It is like saying gilas is weak.

    To be clear, my argument that "more nba players" is dependent if that nba players are borderline, average, or elite nba players.

    Argentina have average nba players. Senegal have borderline nba players. Even JMF outplayed one senegal nba player.

  16. #736
    Senior Member NOiNU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathematicianrcg View Post
    You just supported my argument that there is more talented teams in 2014. Australia and Serbia(With nba players) was beaten by Argentina(No nba players). In 2019.

    2014 has elite to average nba players. 2019 has borderline to average nba players. In fact the best players in 2019 are Gasol,Scola, Jokic, Fournier. 2014 have all star team usa, strong spain team, etc.

    I think all of us will agree that 2014 have more talented teams/players than 2019. Hence better competition.

    Are you saying that 2019 fiba world cup is more competitive than 2014?
    Or the 2019 Argentina squad is like a well oiled machine it played better as a team compared to the more talent laden squads it faced?

    Lol here you go again with your self made tiers. Elite, borderline, average. I find it amusing how easy it is for you to label things to fit your argument. Aside from Team USA, other teams like Australia, Serbia, France and many more are bannered by NBA players. But then again, having NBA players in your team doesn’t equate or translate to strength. If that was the case, Team USA would’ve gotten away with the cup because it’s an all NBA lineup! This is a team sport, not individual competition.

    2019 is more competitive definitely. It is an open, free for all race because USA is not anywhere close to full strength.
    Never look too far ahead. You might stumble on a block right in front of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOiNU View Post
    Or the 2019 Argentina squad is like a well oiled machine it played better as a team compared to the more talent laden squads it faced?

    Lol here you go again with your self made tiers. Elite, borderline, average. I find it amusing how easy it is for you to label things to fit your argument. Aside from Team USA, other teams like Australia, Serbia, France and many more are bannered by NBA players. But then again, having NBA players in your team doesn’t equate or translate to strength. If that was the case, Team USA would’ve gotten away with the cup because it’s an all NBA lineup! This is a team sport, not individual competition.

    2019 is more competitive definitely. It is an open, free for all race because USA is not anywhere close to full strength.
    Well, I agree that 2019 have better teamwork. But 2014 still have stronger players.

    Ofcourse, there are tiers. It is like you are saying that all nba players are equal. LOL.

    Exactly. 2019 is weaker. Team usa(borderline) lost. 2014 Usa is WAY BETTER.

    For ex. 2019 spain finish first. 2008 spain finish 2nd. 2014 finish 3rd/4th(not sure)

    But 2008 spain and 2014 spain are clearly better than 2019.

    Well, YOU Can also do better than judging a team's strength by their finishes especially if they have different oppositions.

    You can have the last word. We are good bro.

    My point is that just because 2014 argentina place 11th and 2019 argentina placed 2nd doesnt mean 2019 are better/stronger.

  18. #738
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    Edu is good but he is not nba player material. Maybe late second round if he is lucky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenoloxy View Post
    Edu is good but he is not nba player material. Maybe late second round if he is lucky.
    As of now, I think Edu has more potential to enter the NBA than Kai. Let's see in 2021 if that still holds true, although I prefer that both of them enter the NBA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaVi View Post
    As of now, I think Edu has more potential to enter the NBA than Kai. Let's see in 2021 if that still holds true, although I prefer that both of them enter the NBA.
    His injury sustained last year is already a red flag.
    "If you can't beat them, join them." - kevin durant

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