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Thread: 2019 World Cup Qualifying Odyssey!

  1. #721
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    Straight forward, i got lost in the last comment where you wrote that i lost, that's for sure. You mentioned tons of time hyping and i'm afraid i don't understund what it's supposed to mean exactly. If that's expectations by basketball fans in Lithuania then that's always high. I just looked through the rosters and years to sum up how strong were the teams on the paper. "Looked stronger and deeper than it actually was" - it's exactly about what was on the paper. If you think that nowadays team is sronger on the paper - let it be, but i'm not sure.

    P.S. What about 2012 team? How 2019 team should be "heads and shoulders above" the first one? Remember, only in the paper. An issue is that all the teams in the past already played and showed all their weaknesses, but the current one not yet. If some Kavaliauskas sucks, he will be the same "washed out" player like some others you mentioned from the past teams.

    P.S.2. Kuzminskas always was a better player playing sf - that's his natural position. He plays pf in NT, because it's needed as we don't have any better options nowadays. Kleiza is another case. In Europe he played pf.
    Last edited by Dreamcatcher; 05-04-2019 at 11:58 AM.

  2. #722

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher View Post
    Straight forward, i got lost in the last comment where you wrote that i lost, that's for sure. You mentioned tons of time hyping and i'm afraid i don't understund what it's supposed to mean exactly. If that's expectations by basketball fans in Lithuania then that's always high. I just looked through the rosters and years to sum up how strong were the teams on the paper. "Looked stronger and deeper than it actually was" - it's exactly about what was on the paper. If you think that nowadays team is sronger on the paper - let it be, but i'm not sure.

    P.S. What about 2012 team? How 2019 team should be "heads and shoulders above" the first one? Remember, only in the paper. An issue is that all the teams in the past already played and showed all their weaknesses, but the current one not yet. If some Kavaliauskas sucks, he will be the same "washed out" player like some others you mentioned from the past teams.
    By saying hyped, I mean conscious fans/BB community members having some substantial expectations on a player. Yes, it's stream-lined phrase, but I think you get the point. F.e. I'm hyping Grigonis, but I do not hyping Juškevičius when it comes down to a knock out stage.

    My point was, that I think you missed some details and deeper insights judging 2013EB on the paper. I tried to recover those expectations before the Eurobasket explicitly.

    As we continue to talk about apriori rosters, it's close, but I agree that on the paper 2012 OG looked more convincing than 2019. On the paper, we had very solid and deep backourt (legend Saras) and a star Kleiza in the frontcourt, complimented with such veterans as Songaila and overall very deep team. The only weak position of that team was 5. Young JV and Kavaliauskas. That's absolutely horrific defensive line-up and also limited offensively. But in reality this team struggled.

    I never said that such 2019WC team would win this or that. Our group is deadly. To got through it would be nice already. What I'm saying that my posted 2019WC team would have a shot providing the best NT basketball performance in 10's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher View Post
    P.S.2. Kuzminskas always was a better player playing sf - that's his natural position. He plays pf in NT, because it's needed as we don't have any better options nowadays. Kleiza is another story. In Europe he played pf
    I disagree. I like Kuzminskas at 4 the most. This way he has a shot beating his opponents cutting or slashing in from the corners which is his best trait in set offence. Also he can out run them in transition. Kuzminskas position varies. In NBA he played entire SF because was too soft for PF, in Zalgiris also SF, in Malaga 2-4 (his words), In Milano 4-3, in NT mainly 4.
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  3. #723
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    2012 team never showed it's real potential, no point in judging them. They played two serious tournaments in one month. They weren't at top shape as a team in OQT and weren't the same at Olympics. Some players peaked earlier, some later. Kleiza was hot as hell in Caracas, but he looked tired in London, his injured knee really started to bother him. Quite similar case to Maciulis, who was seriously injured in 2011 and it was still very tough for him to keep such pace. Another similar case was Jasikevicius - decent in Caracas, shadow in London. We lost Javtokas due to injury. There were teams which were good on paper, but fcked up, that team didn't really have a chance and favorable circumstances that year.

    2013/2015 vs 2019 - the main and enormous difference is Kazlauskas


  4. #724
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    To me 2015EB team is superior to 2013EB. In 2013 Lithuania had Kalnietis as the best player with 12ppg. With all respect to Mantas that's not the best sound to be honest. Kleiza already was washed out and struggled badly in the group stage, yet found his game in the knock out stage, but his 11ppg as second best player is nothing to brag about. Center's position was weak with washed out Javtokas (tiny role) and raw, young and overweight (Raps) JV. Our best big was softy stretch 5 veteran Darjus with 6.8ppg. Seibutis was basically the only solid helper for Kalnietis as Pocius and Delininkaitis both had a bad tournament (both washed out basically). This team badly overachieved as I see now with a nice stretch and fighting spirit in the knock out stage. Yet we had a good match-ups against free style Italy and young Croatia in 4finals and semifinals.

    2015EB is another story. JV stood as a true rock for the very first time with 16ppg, Maciulis had his career season with 14ppg, Kalnietis with 11ppg and lead the tournament with assists I believe, Jankunas was rock solid and Kuzminskas broke out as a good stretch 4. This team manhandled absolute powerhouse Serbia in the semis. 2013 never seen anything even close to 2015EB Serbia. That was a huge upset.

    As for 2019, I believe on the paper this team should be heads and shoulders above any team of 10's, even 2015EB. JV coming to his prime, Kuzminskas in his prime, Sabonis just had the best NBA season of all Lithuanians (and basically only few players in history provided his stats line in all basketball) at the age of 22 (he's way better than any player of 2013EB team for example), Gudaitis has been among best centers of EL this season, Grigonis has a braking out season in EL, we have EL's level back-up PG player for a very first time since 2012 (Jasikevicius, Kalnietis), Ulanovas is a solid EL wing who can be used 2-4 positions and brings flexibility and versatility and our veterans all had decent season which implies their are capable of dealing with their roles (I can't decide what is your strategy, you pathologically don't trust youngsters, but now also questioning veterans? ). Even with Gudaitis and Maciulis not being 100% in shape, this team has transcendent upside compared to other teams in 10's. Whenever all this will click it's another question, but on the paper, IMO, it's best we got since 2008, IMO.



    When the last time I put one? Do you have evidence?
    I'm not talking about statistics I'm not talking about pure talent.Delininkaitis today is like 37 and still scoring 15 pts in lkl easily and he was 6 years younger and he was last guard rotational player in that team...all 85 generation players were peaking at age of 28 in 2013..and of course Kleiza in playoffs he played like euroleague superstar When Kleiza was in zone nobody can't do anything,we don't have such tallents in todays team that can scored 20 pts easily.
    2015 team had no kleiza,no lavro brothers that could be dangerous stretch fours and could hold his own against pf on defence and today we don't have true stretch four...thats a problem ...For me this is main reason why we struggle so much in offense when real games begin since 2015...

    2013 Kleiza was washed up aha sure...and still was second best player in entire team and still he step and was making shots when we needed them most versus Bosnia when entire our ship was sinking,Kleiza step up and said NO our team is not going home with his play and saved us with his individual tallent from that balkan hell group.I dont know what wrong between you and Kleiza that always diminished him in your memories,but Linas was most gifted and tallented offensive player we had since 2008 by far...on his day Linas was true nba level professional scorer.

    2013 team didn't need everybody play well to win and was winning games not by 3 points...but by 12 etc.2015 need all players play well to win by couple points and had no bench, played 8 players in playoffs and on bench was sitting still kid Lukas,still kid domantas,gailius...look who was sitting on 2013 bench K.Lavrinovich was worst player on that team.Even your beloved and healthy motiejunas was on 2013 team bench,but no on 2015...
    For me 2013 obviously better compared to 2015...kleiza, lavro brothers,pocius, motiejunas was changed in 2015 team or with kids or lkl players like Milaknis or Gailius...

    2013 team was last one I could say they have tools to score 85 pts against euroleague defences.Since 2014 can't say that anymore...

    I believe alot of people don't appreciate what kleiza and lavro bros were giving us with shooting in pf-c positions,it open alot of things offensively.

    As i remember every Kazlauskas team little by little went down on tallent 2013 was best,2014 was still good and won almost all friendlies and lost Kalnietis on last day before tournament and still made semifinal...2015 with everybody steping up and playing on their full abilities + with lots of luck we won 3 playoofs by 2 points...2016 we were not even match for top 4 olympic tournament teams.Yeah 2015 nd 2016 were stronger tournaments,but we also had worse overall teams on tallent.

    2017 and 2019 other main players,but can i say we are more tallented than 2012-2013? NO i cant.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 05-05-2019 at 12:22 PM.

  5. #725

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    I'm not talking about statistics I'm not talking about pure talent.Delininkaitis today is like 37 and still scoring 15 pts in lkl easily and he was 6 years younger and he was last guard rotational player in that team...all 85 generation players were peaking at age of 28 in 2013..
    Even though Delininkaitis made little impact in 2013, I gave a slight advantage to this backcourt because Kalnietis and Seibutis were at their prime that year. Both were aggressive as hell and there still somewhat relevant Pocius, but he struggled. Now we'll have quite deep backcourt, but no-one is peaking except maybe Juškevičius, but you know my opinion on him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    and of course Kleiza in playoffs he played like euroleague superstar When Kleiza was in zone nobody can't do anything,we don't have such tallents in todays team that can scored 20 pts easily.
    False. That Kleiza you're talking about played the last tournament in Caracas. His legs started collapsing even in 2012OG already as Mindozas correctly noticed. A year later he was a shadow of himself, he lost his athleticism, explosiveness, ect. In knock out stage he found some shooting streak, but that was all. That's all what's left and his career was going down. And you overrate him in that tournament. Against Italy in quarterfinals he scored 5pts, in semis he nailed 22 and 20 in the final. Kleiza's highest scoring game was 22. While f.e. JV in 2015 scored 26 the quarterfinals against Italy and also dropped 25 against Belgium in the group stage. In 2017 JV dropped 27pts against Germany. Now Kuzminskas dropped 20pts against Greece in 4finals and had 18pts, 17pts games in 2017. Both of these were higher scoring players than Kleiza in 2013. You are reasoning on sentiments, not facts, my friend. And there's also Sabonis now who will be balling in some games like a star.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    2015 team had no kleiza,no lavro brothers that could be dangerous stretch fours and could hold his own against pf on defence and today we don't have true stretch four...thats a problem ...For me this is main reasons why we struggle so much in offense when real games begin since 2015...
    Wrong. We missed Kleiza, but Maciulis stepped up and played much better than Kleiza did in 2013 and Kuzminskas as a stretch 4 made bigger impact in 2015 than Darjus in 2013.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    2013 team didn't need everybody play well to win and was winning games not by 3 points...but by 12 etc.2015 need all players play well to win by couple points and had no bench, played 8 players in playoffs and on bench was sitting still kid Lukas,still kid domantas,gailius...look who was sitting on 2013 bench K.Lavrinovich was worst player on that team.Even your beloved motiejunas was on 2013 team bench,but no on 2015...
    For me 2013 obviously better compared to 2015...kleiza, lavro brothers,pocius, motiejunas was changed in 2015 team or with kids or lkl players....
    The depth of the team not always equals superiority. 2015EB team had more dominant individuals in JV, Maciulis, Kalnietis, Kuzminskas, Jankunas all had vert good tournaments. In 2013 JV and Kuzminskas made little impact and Maciulis was not even close to his 2015 self. But those teams are pretty close, let's not contradict them too much. I would just give an edge to 2015 team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    2013 team was last one I could easily could say they have tools to score 85 pts against euroleague defences.Since 2014 can't say that anymore...
    Wrong. 2013 was 73ppg team, 2015 was 74.4ppg. 2017 (without Sabonis, Seibutis, Jankunas Lekavicius) was 72,5.


    PS1: Forget about Ksistof in EB 2013. He played 1 minute in the knock out stage and scored zero points. He was locked to the bench. You really should start checking some facts instead of trusting your memory.
    PS2: Both 2013 and 2015 needed a lot of luck. Just remember group stage of 2013
    Last edited by Straight forward; 05-05-2019 at 12:58 PM.
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    BTW, 2013EB team was 74,6ppg in the knock out stage (3 games) and 2015 was 75ppg (3 games). It's interesting that in the knock out stage highest scoring game of 2013 team was 81pts (versus Italy 4-finals), while 2015 team nailed 95pts (also versus Italy 4-finals). So your theory collapses...
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  7. #727

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    Jamal Murray is cooking it for Nuggets in the PO. Couple of games over thirty points in a row, most dangerous Canada's player, IMO. If you let him going he can sink any team.

    Aussies Mills made from little to none impact for the Spurs though, his role is decreasing. But in WC he will play well again. He's also that kind of type as Murray, very important to slow him down early in the a game.
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  8. #728
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Now, 2015 Kazlauskas words...Do you have a precise quote?
    Of course not. But the quote would have have been from either Basketnews.lt or Krepsinis.net. Coach Kazlauskas' concerns with respect to Lekavičius' short stature explains why Kazlauskas opted to experiment with Vaidas Kariniauskas instead in 2016.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Did you notice it's it's 2019 already?
    Yes I have. And while some things have changed, his height has not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Do you realize that Kazlauskas said that in 2015, before 2016/2017 season when Lekavicius broke out in EL and attracted PAO's attention?
    Speaking of which he notched 8.5 points and 3.5 assists with an Efficiency Rating of 8.8 in an average of 17:38 minutes of play in that 2016-17 Euroleague season. In other words solid but not spectacular numbers. You though have been according him with superstar status ever since. Now I would indeed like to see Lekavičius blossom into a superstar, but that remains to be seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    You drag his argument for 4 years now as the only reason to cut him out of NT?
    Where did I say I'd necessarily cut him out of the team? I'd merely want him to prove at camp that he's a better option than Žygimantas Janavičius or whoever else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    You come here and discuss Lekavičius with serious face while admitting that you didn't see a single game of Lekavičius playing for Žalgiris in EL. You don't even know the player, except for few games in NT....
    Keep in mind that my stats driven bottom line approach (look up sabermetrics) allows me to stay objective about players. That in general is a positive. I don't allow personal observations/preferences to override the results a player actually delivers out on the floor. There is in fact too much "favouritism" when it comes to players shown by some posters on this board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    This is nonsense and you have no idea what you're taking about.
    What I "know" so far is that he's not delivered much yet in either Euroleague or for Team Lietuva but your expectations are already sky high. The other thing I know is that you're very touchy on the subject of certain players, particularly Lekavičius.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Lekavičius may suck, choke, fall, screw up in WC, but there's 2 best point guards in Lithuania - Kalnietis and Lekavicius - and literally no-one at the very moment is even close. Deal with that.
    If he turns out to be the best option at camp this summer, I'll be fine with that. If not, well I'll be fine with that too. I can deal with it either way.

    Like I say, a little objectivity is called for here. Let's wait and see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    When you notice some Liths wondering in the corner who can do that in Euroleague, let us know, at least I'm very curious

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtPbNgmMfUA
    Highlight films tell me next to nothing! They're highlights, i.e. a player at his best, meaning they're not indicative of a player's regular game-to-game performance. Worse yet I don't see anything in those highlight clips which would assuage my fears regarding his vulnerabilities on defence.

  9. #729

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Speaking of which he notched 8.5 points and 3.5 assists with an Efficiency Rating of 8.8 in an average of 17:38 minutes of play in that 2016-17 Euroleague season. In other words solid but not spectacular numbers. You though have been according him with superstar status ever since. Now I would indeed like to see Lekavičius blossom into a superstar, but that remains to be seen.
    How you (randomly?) came up with idea I treat Lekavicius as superstar? Some proves, quotes or "sure not" again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Keep in mind that my stats driven bottom line approach (look up sabermetrics) allows me to stay objective about players. That in general is a positive. I don't allow personal observations/preferences to override the results a player actually delivers out on the floor. There is in fact too much "favouritism" when it comes to players shown by some posters on this board.
    This "stats driven" approach has nothing to do with objectivity in your case. You're mixing different team without idea how wide the gabs between one or another. There's many different peace under the "LKL" umbrella. And most importantly - again, you have to watch a player, not a stat first, don't you think? I mean, if I have to tell you this, you are galaxies away from being objective.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    What I "know" so far is that he's not delivered much yet in either Euroleague or for Team Lietuva but your expectations are already sky high. The other thing I know is that you're very touchy on the subject of certain players, particularly Lekavičius.

    Highlight films tell me next to nothing! They're highlights, i.e. a player at his best, meaning they're not indicative of a player's regular game-to-game performance. Worse yet I don't see anything in those highlight clips which would assuage my fears regarding his vulnerabilities on defence.
    Lekavicius did in Euroleague more than Juskevicius, Janavicius, Kariniauskas, (different position, but Butkevicius or anyone else you're planning to fill Lekavicius spot with) ever did.

    And it's not highlights. It's a 29pts game in Euroleague, an important, close game. Mention few who did something like that from candidates to crack NT 2019 backourt, please? Fuck it, mention at least one player.
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  10. #730
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    How you (randomly?) came up with idea I treat Lekavicius as superstar?
    Well then why did you get so powerfully excited when I suggested he could face some competition in training camp? Isn't that like treating him as a sacrosanct superstar? Why would you not like to see Lukas Lekavičius being compared at camp to Žygimantas Janavičius (and perhaps Dovis Bičkauskis and Paulius Valinskas as well)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    This "stats driven" approach has nothing to do with objectivity in your case.
    Well it does enable me to change my mind when a player's performance changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    You're mixing different team without idea how wide the gabs between one or another.
    Come on. I do my best to compare stats only within the same league or tournament.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    And it's not highlights. It's a 29pts game in Euroleague, an important, close game. Mention few who did something like that from candidates to crack NT 2019 backourt, please? Fuck it, mention at least one player.
    Well I like to compare averages, not highs. I know players have their ups and downs from game to game, and I don't condemn a player when he has one bad game just because I was there to personally watch. I know these things happen.

    And the fact that these fellows play in different leagues is why I'd like to see Coach Adomaitis get the opportunity to compare them side-to-side.


  11. #731

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Well then why did you get so powerfully excited when I suggested he could face some competition in training camp? Isn't that like treating him as a sacrosanct superstar? Why would you not like to see Lukas Lekavičius being compared at camp to Žygimantas Janavičius (and perhaps Dovis Bičkauskis and Paulius Valinskas as well)?
    So if I say Kalnietis is a lock, I also treat him as a superstar? Why wouldn't you want than Kalnietis to compete with those guys you mention, or do you? I don't even treat JV as a superstar, he's a star, but not superstar, at least he has been so thus far. Does it also mean he shouldn't be a lock? Does it mean he also should be tested in the camp? You have no idea about real level of Lekavicius because he's absolute lock at the moment and a highly needed boost for the NT looking back to EB 2017. Why would I want a better player to compete with inferior players? The competition will be there inevitably, but Lekavicius is simply a lock. Besides, notice I do want Janavicius in the roster, but not replacing Lekavicius


    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Well it does enable me to change my mind when a player's performance changes.
    That only enables you to come here with cheer stats without watching actual games and producing inadequate comparisons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Come on. I do my best to compare stats only within the same league or tournament.
    Nope. F.e. you still can't figure out that to be a player of Zalgiris and to be a player for Rytas is 2 completely different things and it's 2 different things to average 10pts in Rytas and Zalgiris. It's the same league, but completely different situation. Off course, you can't figure it out because you watch only at stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Well I like to compare averages, not highs. I know players have their ups and downs from game to game, and I don't condemn a player when he has one bad game just because I was there to personally watch. I know these things happen.
    Ok, so who's those point guards that Lekavicius will compete with who have better averages in Euroleague?
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  12. #732
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    So if I say Kalnietis is a lock, I also treat him as a superstar? Why wouldn't you want than Kalnietis to compete with those guys you mention, or do you? I don't even treat JV as a superstar, he's a star, but not superstar, at least he has been so thus far. Does it also mean he shouldn't be a lock? Does it mean he also should be tested in the camp? You have no idea about real level of Lekavicius because he's absolute lock at the moment and a highly needed boost for the NT looking back to EB 2017. Why would I want a better player to compete with inferior players? The competition will be there inevitably, but Lekavicius is simply a lock.
    That's the real point on which we disagree though. I think a fellow has to be a superstar to be a lock. While we both regard Mantas Kalnietis as a lock on the basis of his past performances with the national team, I don't see that Lekavičius has earned that lofty designation yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Nope. F.e. you still can't figure out that to be a player of Zalgiris and to be a player for Rytas is 2 completely different things and it's 2 different things to average 10pts in Rytas and Zalgiris.
    There is the unfortunate detail that Brandon Davies, a foreigner, has been far and away the best player on the Žalgiris roster this year. Marius Grigonis and Edgaras Ulanovas have been a distant third and fifth respectively as measured by Efficiency per minute played in Euroleague games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    , so who's those point guards that Lekavicius will compete with who have better averages in Euroleague?
    The fact that there are no such Lithuanian PGs in Euroleague other than Lekavičius is precisely why I'd like to see Coach Adomaitis comparing him with other PGs. Just to make sure he's the real deal with the right stuff and not just another bench player on a somewhat better than average Euroleague team.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 05-14-2019 at 07:26 PM.

  13. #733

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    That's the real point on which we disagree though. I think a fellow has to be a superstar to be a lock. While we both regard Mantas Kalnietis as a lock on the basis of his past performances with the national team, I don't see that Lekavičius has earned that lofty designation yet.
    How about declining possibility? Arvydas Sabonis and Marciulionis had some nice past performances with NT, but unfortunately they wouldn't make NT today. You are locking a player who is playing at the lower level and has lower market value than Lekavicius. I do it also, but it surely contradicts youre philosophy to test everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    There is unfortunately the detail that Brandon Davies, a foreigner, has been far and away the best player on the Žalgiris roster this year. Marius Grigonis and Edgaras Ulanovas have been a distant fourth and fifth respectively.
    How this Davies argument relevant to our previous discussion? Can't follow really Are you suggesting that Grigonis had somewhat bad season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    The fact that there are no such Lithuanian PGs in Euroleague other than Lekavičius is precisely why I'd like to see Coach Adomaitis comparing him with other PGs. Just to make sure he's the real deal with the right stuff and not just another bench player on a somewhat better than average Euroleague team.
    Oh, I get it now. We have only 2 wanderers in NBA. We should test them with Ehodas and Gaben for good, just to make sure their for real. In Sabonis case it's a no brainer, because what had he done thus far to be a lock...
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  14. #734
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    How about declining possibility? Arvydas Sabonis and Marciulionis had some nice past performances with NT, but unfortunately they wouldn't make NT today. You are locking a player who is playing at the lower level and has lower market value than Lekavicius. I do it also, but it surely contradicts youre philosophy to test everyone.
    My locks I'd allow to coast through camp. My only locks right now other than Kalnietis are Jonas Valančiūnas, Domantas Sabonis, Mindaugas Kuzminskas and (if they come) Paulius Jankūnas and Jonas Mačiulis. The rest of the players need to show their stuff in camp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    How this Davies argument relevant to our previous discussion? Can't follow really
    Well you were the one who argued that a comparison between Žalgiris' and Rytas' players cannot/should not be made because the Žalgiris team is on a different level. But Žalgiris is on a different level largely because of the foreign component on the team. Žalgiris' two best players are foreigners. Therefore the Lithuanian players from each club can still be compared.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Are you suggesting that Grigonis had somewhat bad season?
    Marius Grigonis had a very good season. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't make the team this summer. Edgaras Ulanovas wasn't as good this season. Like I say, he was only the fifth best player on the Žalgiris' team this past season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Oh, I get it now. We have only 2 wanderers in NBA. We should test them with Ehodas and Gaben for good, just to make sure their for real. In Sabonis case it's a no brainer, because what had he done thus far to be a lock...
    Don't be asinine. It's not helping your argument, i.e. that Lekavičius is already intrinsically a "lock".
    Last edited by Hepcat; 05-14-2019 at 07:49 PM.

  15. #735

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Well you were the one who argued that a comparison between Žalgiris' and Rytas' players cannot/should not be made because the Žalgiris team is on a different level. But Žalgiris is on a different level largely because of the foreign component on the team. Žalgiris' two best players are foreigners. Therefore the Lithuanian players from each club can still be compared.
    And Rytas is lead by Lithuanians? And Rytas has three, four players in each positions? And Rytas is tuned in every tiny detail as Zalgiris? And other LKL teams wants Rytas' young players for a loan just as Zalgiris' players (some LKL team asked for Joubaitis and Uleckas).
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  16. #736
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Had a chance to rewatch 2016 and Australia and 2017 versus Greece playoffs.

    I take atleast 3 of 4 shooters with experience Bendzius,Giedraitis,Juskevicius,Milaknis to my 2019 team with 2 big elephants inside.We are not winning playoofs games with 65points scoring against elite teams no matter what we do on defence.We need shooting badly to disguise our huge lack of 1vs 1 offensive tallents in back court.

  17. #737
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    And Rytas is lead by Lithuanians?
    I'm not sure who the leaders are on the Rytas team but at least Arnas Butkevičius is right up there on the stats summaries. On Žalgiris though it's Brandon Davies who stands head and shoulders above the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    And Rytas is tuned in every tiny detail as Zalgiris?
    Don't know. I'll defer to Madmax on that question to get what may be a differing perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    And other LKL teams wants Rytas' young players for a loan just as Zalgiris' players (some LKL team asked for Joubaitis and Uleckas).
    Would not seven or eight teams like to borrow Deividas Sirvydis or Augustas Marčiulionis from Rytas?

    Mind you this is all beside the point which is the following:

    What has Lukas Lekavičius actually accomplished so far to deserve the exalted position of a lock on Team Lietuva? Yes, he was a decent player with Žalgiris two years ago and he was a decent backup to Mantas Kalnietis in four qualifying games, but that hardly merits "lock" status in my book. He'll have to do more than just show up at camp this summer. He'll need to show some game.
    Last edited by Hepcat; 05-15-2019 at 06:21 PM.

  18. #738
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    If anyone is itching for my 2 cents regarding every NT team player not named JV or Sabonis, I think they all have loads to prove in the upcoming training camp... Not even Kuzminskas or current Kalnietis get a free pass in my opinion

  19. #739

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    Simmons in. Well, that makes Australia ultimate favourite of the group.
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    So Australia should be strong, isn't? Already confirmed the NBA-core of the team (half of the roster) that destroyed Lithuania in the Olympics + Simmons. I don't watch NBA and basically didn't see him, but he's NBA star and should be very strong individually.

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