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Thread: 2019 World Cup Qualifying Odyssey!

  1. #541
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    All of their lives Ulanovas was competing with Butkevicius starting back in youth days. In that 1992 generation Ulanovas was starter, Butkevicius was replacing him and basically was main player of the bench (energy guy). For my taste Ulanovas is just smarter player. But I have noticed not once Butkevicius plays well against Ulanovas usually, maybe he wants prove something? . He is best option in entire lkl to defend Ulanovas.Arnas is as strong and even faster compared to Edgaras. So Ulanovas favourite move back weaker sf doesn't work against Arnas. He holds his own inside no easy basket or faul needed.Jasikevicius doesnt even go to Ulanovas move againts Butkevicius.They both knows Arnas defends that very well.

    Butkevicius lacks shooting and basketball iq thats his big problem... but God gave him freakish athletic abilities as white kid,he easily could be in athletic field. I don't see him making nt, but as candidate he can be. Ulanovas will be member of nt team as usefull bench player.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 02-24-2019 at 08:20 AM.

  2. #542
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    So if Coach Adomaitis and the LKF are on the ball they'd already have arranged for the Neptūnas cheerleaders to help the Italian players celebrate their success in qualifying for the 2019 WC tournament tonight with a couple of cases of this:



    Strictly for its well known medicinal healing properties of course. For those tired aching joints and muscles. A few glasses of 999 combined with some deep relaxing massage therapy should be just the ticket for the Italian players....

    Last edited by Hepcat; 02-24-2019 at 07:54 PM.

  3. #543
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    I'm very much your typical fan.... Therefore actually watching more games won't make me more "learned".
    And you don't have to be scout or top level coach to see the player capabilities. I'm far from it too. You just have to have basic knowledge of the game and pay little bit more attention.
    What bewilders me is that out of the hundreds of thousands of Lithuanian-Canadians and Lithuanian-Americans on this side of the Atlantic Ocean, I'm the only one posting on this board. That always leaves me wondering whether I'm the most knowledgeable Lithuanian basketball fan among those born and raised here on this side of the Atlantic.


  4. #544
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    All of their lives Ulanovas was competing with Butkevicius starting back in youth days.
    Moreover it's perfectly natural to compare Kaunas' starting SF with Vilnius' starting SF. It's not as if I was making a bizarre comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Butkevicius lacks shooting and basketball iq thats his big problem....
    I wonder whether that's not one of those statements that comes to be accepted as fact simply because people have seen it somewhere (e.g. from Straightforward on this board) and it keeps getting repeated. Consider:

    1. Arnas Butkevičius is not one of the leading scorers on the Rytas team. But in LKL action he has the highest two-point shooting percentage at 75.3 and the second highest three-point shooting percentage at 46.2 on the team. That would seem to indicate that he's smart enough to play within himself and not force up bad shots.

    2. Butkevičius is not one of the bigs on the Rytas team. Yet in LKL action he's #3 on the team in Rebounds and #2 in Blocked Shots per game. Similarly he's not one of the ostensibly "quick" guards. Yet in LKL action he's #5 on the team in Assists and #1 in Steals per game. In fact he's easily #1 on the team when you add up Rebounds plus Assists plus Steals plus Blocked Shots per game in LKL action. (That's what made me sit up and take notice of his play this year.) How can he possibly be doing this without positioning skills, anticipation, basketball sense overall?

    Last edited by Hepcat; 02-26-2019 at 12:30 AM.

  5. #545
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Moreover it's perfectly natural to compare Kaunas' starting SF with Vilnius' starting SF. It's not as if I was making a bizarre comparison.
    It's a bit bizarre you know, cause nowadays it's probably more accurate to compare Vilnius' and Klaipeda starting SF

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    I wonder whether that's not one of those statements that comes to be accepted as fact simply because people have seen it somewhere (e.g. from Straightforward on this board) and it keeps getting repeated. Consider:

    1. Arnas Butkevičius is not one of the leading scorers on the Rytas team. But in LKL action he has the highest two-point shooting percentage at 75.3 and the second highest three-point shooting percentage at 46.2 on the team. That would seem to indicate that he's smart enough to play within himself and not force up bad shots.

    2. Butkevičius is not one of the bigs on the Rytas team. Yet in LKL action he's #3 on the team in Rebounds and #2 in Blocked Shots per game. Similarly he's not one of the ostensibly "quick" guards. Yet in LKL action he's #5 on the team in Assists and #1 in Steals per game. In fact he's easily #1 on the team when you add up Rebounds plus Assists plus Steals plus Blocked Shots per game in LKL action. (That's what made me sit up and take notice of his play this year.) How can he possibly be doing this without positioning skills, anticipation, basketball sense overall?

    Just to let you know - LKL would barely make it to European leagues Top10. Compare Butkevicius LKL and Eurocup stats and you'll see some big drop in some stats categories like efficiency, like shooting %. Also you don't have to have high bball IQ to have a good stats in some steals, rebounds. I.e. Rytas had Sutton this season, his numbers in LKL was really fine - rebounds, steals, but his bball IQ was lower than his number. The secret is - physical tools. Pretty much like Butkevicius, he simply is more gifted physically than most of his direct rivalsin LKL. I'm not sayin' that Butkevicius can't think on the floor, but he is surely not the mastermind there either


  6. #546
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Compare Butkevicius LKL and Eurocup stats and you'll see some big drop in some stats categories like efficiency, like shooting %.
    Yes, I had also noted the difference between the stats he's achieved in the LKL and Eurocup and I was wondering whether they might tend to even out by the end of the season. That's why I was waiting for the Playoffs to provide a better indication of his play. All this talk though about Butkevičius' low basketball IQ forced my hand and prompted me to pipe up about his play so far this season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Just to let you know - LKL would barely make it to European leagues Top10.
    Well that may have been true a decade ago, but I'm now beginning to wonder whether that's still the case. Consider:

    1. We've had several recent examples of good LKL players signing with foreign clubs and immediately exploding into stardom, e.g Marius Grigonis, Artūras Gudaitis, Rokas Giedraitis.

    2. The 11-1 record of Team Lietuva in qualifying was a very good indication of the depth of Lithuania's talent pool. Most of the participants play for LKL teams.


  7. #547

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    The hierarchy of SF position is like this today, IMO:

    1. Kuzminskas. 2. Ulanovas. 3. Mačiulis/Giedraitis. 4. Butkevičius
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  8. #548
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    The hierarchy of SF position is like this today, IMO:

    1. Kuzminskas. 2. Ulanovas. 3. Mačiulis/Giedraitis. 4. Butkevičius
    Giedraitis is currently undoubtedly better than Ulanovas and I don't think it's even close...although Rokas can play as a guard as well thanks to his quickness and athleticism, so maybe he will switch between those two positions during the WC as well

  9. #549
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Well that may have been true a decade ago, but I'm now beginning to wonder whether that's still the case. Consider:

    1. We've had several recent examples of good LKL players signing with foreign clubs and immediately exploding into stardom, e.g Marius Grigonis, Artūras Gudaitis, Rokas Giedraitis.

    2. The 11-1 record of Team Lietuva in qualifying was a very good indication of the depth of Lithuania's talent pool. Most of the participants play for LKL teams.

    It's still the case. Our league stays in Top10, but doesn't move up, like i.e. Germany made a big leap lately and overcame LKL. I'd say that Euroleague, Eurocup as continental competition is obviously above it all. Then Spain, Turkey, Russian VTB are top, a bit lower Greece, Italy, Germany, France. I'm not sure about Israel and Adriatic League, not following them much, but should be around our level.
    Talking about signings, Grigonis didn't become a star when he left Zalgiris as a teen. It took years in Spain and only in Alba he became a really good player. Giedraitis plays at similar level now after signing with the same Alba, he is not a star, but just a good player. He needs to work a lot on his defense first of all, on stability. Gudaitis is having decent season in Euroleague. He is closest to that "star" thing. But I'm not in a hurry to give someone a star status. There are bigger players in Euroleague these days, who deserves to be called a stars and actually if to remember how such Macijauskas, Siskauskas entered European scene after leaving LKL - thats who the stars actually were and the same Euroleague, international bbal in general, was in its golden age, the level was higher with wide pool of bball legends.
    Well regarding NT, it did good, the main goal was to quaify somehow, we reached it and that's great, but let's take into consideration that it was more of reserves competition than actual NTs playin'. Italy missed its best players in most occasions, Croatia too, Hungary played without their star Hanga, Poland missed Lampe, Slaughter in half of their games. Anyway, I'm happy with the result, the main job was to qualify to World Cup and we did it, but I wouldn't make any conclusions out of it


  10. #550
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    The hierarchy of SF position is like this today, IMO:

    1. Kuzminskas. 2. Ulanovas. 3. Mačiulis/Giedraitis. 4. Butkevičius
    Giedraitis is currently undoubtedly better than Ulanovas and I don't think it's even close...although Rokas can play as a guard as well thanks to his quickness and athleticism, so maybe he will switch between those two positions during the WC as well
    Could very well end up with all five on the team this summer with Mindaugas Kuzminskas and Jonas Mačiulis doubling up at PF and Rokas Giedraitis doubling up at SG depending upon who else is available.


  11. #551
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Also you don't have to have high bball IQ to have a good stats in some steals, rebounds. I.e. Rytas had Sutton this season, his numbers in LKL was really fine - rebounds, steals, but his bball IQ was lower than his number.
    Wasn't the problem with Dominique Sutton not so much his play on the court but more about his being a cancer in the locker room?


  12. #552
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Wasn't the problem with Dominique Sutton not so much his play on the court but more about his being a cancer in the locker room?

    It was both. At times he was pissed on the court, lacked motivation just cause coach didn't let him to play as much as he wants to and the way that he wants to. So he used to get lazy at defense, was shooting dumb shots, didn't share the ball and etc. That's when the arguments between him and Adomaitis started. It hurt all the team as other players obviously saw what's happening. Telling openly to coach to fck off during the game and during practices is enough. Even in new club now, in Spain, where he started really well statistically, he already got into argument with a coach in just his second game, when during one of decisive time-outs at the end of the game, coach ask team to defend, Sutton took it personally, cause he was the last one to make a mistake and started to scream at coach... Good for him that coach took it easy, but the whole time-out was wasted


  13. #553
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    It can easily be same situation like between Adomaitis and Sutton with Adomaitis and Motiejunas. The best team is not that one that combines best avalaible tallent.Best team is the ones that fight for each other and knows there roles and are ready to sacrifise for the team.Donatas is main player we have that is capable of f***ing up lockeroom chemistry with selfish ego.Rytas send their most tallented player to spain and begin to play like team together and good things begin to happening.Loockerooms cancers is very bad example to other players doesnt matter how good they are.

    Valanciunas,Sabonis,Kuzminskas + one veteran leadership from Jankunas/Kavaliauskas and one young Birutis/Echodas/Masiulis would be optimal big lineup in my eyes for 2019.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 03-02-2019 at 11:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Valanciunas,Sabonis,Kuzminskas + one veteran leadership from Jankunas/Kavaliauskas and one young Birutis/Echodas/Masiulis would be optimal big lineup in my eyes for 2019.
    Both Kavaliauskas and Jankunas are injury prone this season. It's very unlikely they will suit. Not to mention that I think Jankunas career is pretty much done, he just can't play the way he did last season.
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  15. #555
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Both Kavaliauskas and Jankunas are injury prone this season. It's very unlikely they will suit. Not to mention that I think Jankunas career is pretty much done, he just can't play the way he did last season.
    Sure he can't, 2017/18 was hell of the season for him, one of the best ever, but he still can be better than he is this one. Last summer he underwent some surgeries, so he had very poor preparations for season, then some really unlucky injuries that could never happened ruined it all. If he wants to continue club career and play, not just bury it and spend a season on bench as club symbol, he must rest this summer and prepare his body the best way he can. Bearing injuries, he still has couple of years left in him to play in EL. So I'm more than sure that his NT career is over.
    Kavaliauskas is similar story. He is having injury plagued season, so he must think twice if he is capable of another NT journey. He probably won't continue in Zalgiris, will go down to lower level, so there's a small chance he might join, but I'd doubt it, unless he is ready to take a such risk - another injury and he is done.

    Regarding Motiejunas, he gave nothing to NT to miss him. He simply doesn't care about it too much, never did, so even if invited, he might hide under this "coach hates me" story and never come. But I wouldn't care. Domas+JV, Maciulis, thn Kuzminskas might be used as PF in offense and we might be fine. Really pitty about Gudaitis, with him on board we wouldn't even discuss D-Mo


  16. #556
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Moreover it's perfectly natural to compare Kaunas' starting SF with Vilnius' starting SF. It's not as if I was making a bizarre comparison.
    It's a bit bizarre you know, cause nowadays it's probably more accurate to compare Vilnius' and Klaipeda starting SF
    Alright then. In LKL action so far this year here's the comparison:

    -----------------------GM---MPG---PPG---EFF

    Deividas Gailius------05--23:36--17.6---14
    Edgaras Ulanovas----23--21:46---8.3---10

    We don't have enough data points yet for Gailius to make a statistically significant comparison though.


  17. #557
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Alright then. In LKL action so far this year here's the comparison:

    -----------------------GM---MPG---PPG---EFF

    Deividas Gailius------05--23:36--17.6---14
    Edgaras Ulanovas----23--21:46---8.3---10

    We don't have enough data points yet for Gailius to make a statistically significant comparison though.

    Ulanovas plays for Zalgiris, not for Rytas


  18. #558
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Lets see what we got this 2018-2019 season

    Jonas Valanciunas NBA After trade to Grizzlies he is balling averages 10gm 19pts+9reb in 25minutes.When i saw how he tottaly destroyed arguably best nba defender Gobert,i thought to myself is there anybody that can guard Jonas 1 vs 1 ?

    Domantas Sabonis Nba 25min 14pts+9reb in a race for nba 6th men award.

    Mindaugas Kuzminskas euroleague 17min 8,5pts+3reb

    Marius Grigonis euroleague 20min 8,4pts+2assist

    Edgaras Ulanovas euroleague 25min 7,2pt+3,3reb

    Lukas Lekavicius euroleague 12min 4,3pts+1,6asist


    Mantas Kalnietis Uleb 25min 10,3pts+5,6asist having one of best season of his career in top 4 uleb team.It reminds me of 2013 Kalnietis with Lokomotiv.Rock solid PG.

    Rokas Giedraitis Uleb 28min 14,9pts+4,3reb really suprising how good Rokas plays for also uleb top4 team.I have to say he plays better than Grigonis looked last season

    Eimantas Bendzius Uleb 23min 9,9pts+3,1reb

    Jonas Maciulis champions league 25min 9pts+5,3reb

    Adas Juskevicius champions league 23min 11,5pts+2,1 asist


    Renaldas Seibutis acb 25min 11,1pts+1.9assit



    Others:

    Paulius Jankunas euroleague 16min 6,2pts+3,1reb

    Antanas Kavaliauskas euroleague 12min 5,9pts+2,6reb

    Arturas Milaknis euroleague 23min 7,1pts+0.8asist

    Donatas Motiejunas
    china league 35min 27.9pts+14reb. Motiejunas average 27,9pts is 13th result in chinas league

    Injury:


    Arturas Gudaitis
    euroleague 24min 12,5pts+7,1reb
    Last edited by Shawshank; 03-11-2019 at 06:17 PM.

  19. #559
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Ulanovas plays for Zalgiris, not for Rytas
    Whoops! Sorry, I got my eyes (brain?) crossed.


  20. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Mantas Kalnietis Uleb 25min 10,3pts+5,6asist having one of best season of his career in top 4 uleb team.It reminds me of 2013 Kalnietis with Lokomotiv.Rock solid PG.
    I hope we will see a good Kalnietis during WC, but this is maybe too early to know that. Indeed, he had a very good begining of season, be it in Jeep Elite or in Eurocup (he was arguably amongst the best players during Eurocup regular season). However, he has been struggling a lot for 1 month or 1,5 months (bad decisions, horrible shoot percentages, ...). I found him good during last game versus Le Mans though despite the loss, so maybe he can come back (ASVEL will need him to expect a win versus Andorra and reach next step.



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