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Thread: 2019 World Cup Qualifying Odyssey!

  1. #841
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Kuzminskas, Ulanovas, Maciulis are more SF than anything else.

    Same as Butkevicius,even for Giedraitis I believe his main position in the future on normal situation will be SF.

    5 SF type players is too much, we need different type players.I dont see place for Butkevicius or even Giedraitis depending how he looks mentally in friendly games.

    I would go for deadly shooter at pf like Bendzius or very big body like Geben, but definitely wouldn't go with half of the team with wings.When you think even Grigonis with 1m98 has tools to play SF that's way too much similar position players.

    We need to find right mix and shooting shouldn't be forgotten either.We had problems with that in very recent past.

  2. #842
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    In recent Grigonis long interview he was asked who is your best friends on Nt team.He mentioned Ulanovas as his roommate and closest one and after couple seconds he also mentione Seibutis.I was what? Usually people that compete in same position and are from different generations players they don't friend too much each other, we all are humans and easy to understand why.

    Now I'm looking at video when Kalnietis comes to camp and shaking hands.And further from anybody near the bar what you know Seibutis and Grigonis chatting only those 2 at that area.

    Renaldas is perfect example of true teammate,now more in mentor role who realise his days is coming to end in NT and he trying to share his knowledge with Marius as much as he can, knowing well he is who gonna replace him .This is big but very humble men , definitely my favourite player in our NT team history.From first time I saw him with nt jersey defending Teodosic like there is no tommorow in 2010 to this day.Always admired how that men competes/ed.

  3. #843

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Kuzminskas, Ulanovas, Maciulis are more SF than anything else.

    Same as Butkevicius,even for Giedraitis I believe his main position in the future on normal situation will be SF.

    5 SF type players is too much, we need different type players.I dont see place for Butkevicius or even Giedraitis depending how he looks mentally in friendly games.

    I would go for deadly shooter at pf like Bendzius or very big body like Geben, but definitely wouldn't go with half of the team with wings.When you think even Grigonis with 1m98 has tools to play SF that's way too much similar position players.

    We need to find right mix and shooting shouldn't be forgotten either.We had problems with that in very recent past.
    Bendzius deadly shooter In which league? Again, the dude is terrible at D and to me it would be a waste of spot. F.e. Kuzminskas is a soft defender at 4 (still better than Bendzius though), but he can be decent defender at SF, so if we have Maciulis or even Ulanovas (or Butkevicius) in the line-up together with Kuzminskas they can easily switch at D and we are pretty comfortable with Kuz at 4 (defensively at SF). With Bendzius you can't do the same, the guy sucks both defending PF and SF, I would even argue that he can't guard SF at all.

    Bendzius shooting does not transit to pre-Olympic WC tournament. So I would argue about Juskevicius, but even he would have much more chances to knock down few shots. To me Bendzius can provide only chucking and horrid defence at this level, IMO, at least the odds that he would deliver shouldn't be notable.

    And don't mix everything into one. It's obvious Kuz will play 4. Why to bother even say that we have 5-6 SFs? Grigonis won't even move an inch from SG position, it's a no-brainer. Ulanovas and Maciulis will play SF. If Giedraitis will be taken, he will be taken as SG. He's by far better shooter than Ulanovas and Maciulis and he's much more agile and more of a guard than those 2. Now why I would still like to have Butkevicius? Because he basically can guard 1-4. Butkevicius literally can be thrown against taller PGs defensively. Even if he wouldn't be used, you know that you have a legit defensive role player who would come off the bench and legitimately do his job. besides he's a glue guy defensively, he covers much more space defensively than regular defender, he's a defensive specialist. I can't say this about Bendzius, he istantly creates a miss-match for us. It's strange that you level everything into once, I thought NT is a topic that you could provide a bit more subtle analysis
    Last edited by Straight forward; 07-22-2019 at 04:15 PM.
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  4. #844
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Jonas Maciulis is in.

    "1985" generation Maciulis, Jankunas,Seibutis, Kalnietis will try to catch their last Olympic dream.Last 4 players left of that unforgetable 2010 team.

    Jonas Kazlauskas in previuos Olympic cycle 2015-2016 in tough moments or closing games went alot with JV,Jankunas,Maciulis,Seibutis,Kalnietis lineup

    Its good that we would have an option for some moments return to lineup that have seen it all you can see in basketball.

    It can work for couple minutes and stop the bleeding when younger fellas gonna look lost at some tough moments in a tournament ( at that happens in every tournament). That lineup will not panic ,they have seen way too much.Every team need such grown ups if you want to make long playoof run
    Paulius Jankūnas, Jonas Mačiulis and Renaldas Seibutis were (together with Artūras Jomantas, Antanas Kavaliauskas, Marius Prekevičius and Darius Silinskis) also on the team that won the FIBA U-21 World Championship in 2005. Hopefully we can count on them therefore to lead Team Lietuva to a medal in September!


  5. #845
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Bendzius deadly shooter In which league? Again, the dude is terrible at D and to me it would be a waste of spot. F.e. Kuzminskas is a soft defender at 4 (still better than Bendzius though), but he can be decent defender at SF, so if we have Maciulis or even Ulanovas (or Butkevicius) in the line-up together with Kuzminskas they can easily switch at D and we are pretty comfortable with Kuz at 4 (defensively at SF). With Bendzius you can't do the same, the guy sucks both defending PF and SF, I would even argue that he can't guard SF at all.

    Bendzius shooting does not transit to pre-Olympic WC tournament. So I would argue about Juskevicius, but even he would have much more chances to knock down few shots. To me Bendzius can provide only chucking and horrid defence at this level, IMO, at least the odds that he would deliver shouldn't be notable.

    And don't mix everything into one. It's obvious Kuz will play 4. Why to bother even say that we have 5-6 SFs? Grigonis won't even move an inch from SG position, it's a no-brainer. Ulanovas and Maciulis will play SF. If Giedraitis will be taken, he will be taken as SG. He's by far better shooter than Ulanovas and Maciulis and he's much more agile and more of a guard than those 2. Now why I would still like to have Butkevicius? Because he basically can guard 1-4. Butkevicius literally can be thrown against taller PGs defensively. Even if he wouldn't be used, you know that you have a legit defensive role player who would come off the bench and legitimately do his job. besides he's a glue guy defensively, he covers much more space defensively than regular defender, he's a defensive specialist. I can't say this about Bendzius, he istantly creates a miss-match for us. It's strange that you level everything into once, I thought NT is a topic that you could provide a bit more subtle analysis
    All I can say here is that it was pretty clear by the end of the season that Arnas Butkevičius was a more valuable part of the Rytas team than was Eimantas Bendžius. Still Coach Adomaitis has about fifteen locks plus reasonable prospects for the team and he's going to have to cut three loose.


  6. #846
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Oh my - from Bendzius being deadly shooter to Butkevicius being elite defender Both are far from that. I don't care who will make it at the end as any would have close to none influence on final results, but as I predicted - Bendzius has more chances simply cause we lack shooter in frontcourt. Adomaitis might go with him. Butkevicius can bring nothing new to the team. Stop kidding with that defensive skills, it's not Eurocup or LKL anymore. If there would be no Maciulis, then maybe he would take that bench spot, but now - not likely, unless Adomaitis has different plan, but doubt it


  7. #847

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Oh my - from Bendzius being deadly shooter to Butkevicius being elite defender Both are far from that. I don't care who will make it at the end as any would have close to none influence on final results, but as I predicted - Bendzius has more chances simply cause we lack shooter in frontcourt. Adomaitis might go with him. Butkevicius can bring nothing new to the team. Stop kidding with that defensive skills, it's not Eurocup or LKL anymore. If there would be no Maciulis, then maybe he would take that bench spot, but now - not likely, unless Adomaitis has different plan, but doubt it
    He's a good defender. I believe you underrate him a little bit. If we are about to play Ulanovas for some serious minutes and ageing Maciulis, Butkevicius is right there along with those in terms of the defence and he's most universal of all three as he can even guard PGs. I saw him enough this season to say that his game transit to NT level pretty well. You maybe taking LKL finals too seriously where he didn't suck BTW, but came already after a marathon of hell of a playing time. Not that I'm super high on him, but I can surely see him coming of the bench, hustling and really helping at the D end if he will be needed, while also he is very good at open court. Bendzius will come, and you can only guess whenever he'll nail one triple or will suck entirely. That's my take anyway.
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  8. #848
    Senior Member LuDux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    more subtle analysis
    Great idea

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuDux View Post
    Great idea
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  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    He's a good defender. I believe you underrate him a little bit. If we are about to play Ulanovas for some serious minutes and ageing Maciulis, Butkevicius is right there along with those in terms of the defence and he's most universal of all three as he can even guard PGs. I saw him enough this season to say that his game transit to NT level pretty well. You maybe taking LKL finals too seriously where he didn't suck BTW, but came already after a marathon of hell of a playing time. Not that I'm super high on him, but I can surely see him coming of the bench, hustling and really helping at the D end if he will be needed, while also he is very good at open court. Bendzius will come, and you can only guess whenever he'll nail one triple or will suck entirely. That's my take anyway.
    I got a feeling that your hype about Butkevicius is more of a fact that you hate Bendzius to be on a team, that's it. I can't explain it otherwise. Guy is decent on LKL level, average on Eurocup, how on earth he suddenly becomes so good option for NT... I'm fine if Adomaitis sees him in his plans and will take him to China, as I wrote I don't care much who will warm the bench, but no way I can see him as some rotation player who can defend that well or contribute. The same goes with Bendzius


  11. #851

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    I got a feeling that your hype about Butkevicius is more of a fact that you hate Bendzius to be on a team, that's it. I can't explain it otherwise. Guy is decent on LKL level, average on Eurocup, how on earth he suddenly becomes so good option for NT... I'm fine if Adomaitis sees him in his plans and will take him to China, as I wrote I don't care much who will warm the bench, but no way I can see him as some rotation player who can defend that well or contribute. The same goes with Bendzius
    You're probably just watched Rytas too little. I don't hate Bendzius, he just sucks at D badly and I don't see how one can throw him into the competition we're facing. That's it. To me Butkevicius is much more ready and his skillset is more of a real deal than Bendzius, that's it.
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  12. #852
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Guy is decent on LKL level, average on Eurocup, how on earth he suddenly becomes so good option for NT....
    Arnas Butkevičius was better than decent on the LKL level this past year; he was excellent. And he would add a needed element of hustle and athleticism on defence to the team. The problem I see though is his presence would necessitate going into the tournament without a dedicated backup center, i.e. Martinas Geben, and a combo guard, i.e. Adas Juškevičius or Žygimantas Janavičius, who could in an emergency play some PG. So I just don't know.

    But with Domantas Sabonis, Paulius Jankūnas and Mindaugas Kuzminskas available for the team, I don't see that Eimantas Bendžius is needed.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 07-23-2019 at 04:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    May you?
    Come on, I am Mr Subtle Analysis of Interbasket, record breaking 7th year in a row

  14. #854
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    odds to make to final roster:

    Jonas Valančiūnas 1,005
    Domantas Sabonis 1,005
    Mantas Kalnietis 1,01
    Mindaugas Kuzminskas 1,01
    Lukas Lekavičius 1,02
    Marius Grigonis 1,02
    Edgaras Ulanovas 1,02
    Renaldas Seibutis 1,1
    Jonas Mačiulis 1,15
    Rokas Giedraitis 1,23
    Paulius Jankūnas 1,6


    mystery how come Giedraitis chances better than Jankunas.Maybe they dont believe he can stay healthy

    Adas Juškevičius 1,62
    Arnas Butkevičius 1,9
    Eimantas Bendžius 2,35
    Martinas Gebenas 2,5

    which one is needed most from this 4?

    Martynas Echodas 4,4
    Gytis Masiulis 4,4
    Žygimantas Janavičius 7

    this 3 are just sparing partners
    Last edited by Shawshank; 07-23-2019 at 06:42 PM.

  15. #855
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    You're probably just watched Rytas too little. I don't hate Bendzius, he just sucks at D badly and I don't see how one can throw him into the competition we're facing. That's it. To me Butkevicius is much more ready and his skillset is more of a real deal than Bendzius, that's it.
    I've watched enough of Rytas in Eurocup and vs Zalgiris, so I have a fine picture of Butkevicius against not LKL midgets, but against higher level clubs. I won't argue who is more ready, none of them is, but Bendzius might be more suitable for Adomaitis as shooting option, that's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Arnas Butkevičius was better than decent on the LKL level this past year; he was excellent. And he would add a needed element of hustle and athleticism on defence to the team. The problem I see though is his presence would necessitate going into the tournament without a dedicated backup center, i.e. Martinas Geben, and a combo guard, i.e. Adas Juškevičius or Žygimantas Janavičius, who could in an emergency play some PG. So I just don't know.

    But with Domantas Sabonis, Paulius Jankūnas and Mindaugas Kuzminskas available for the team, I don't see that Eimantas Bendžius is needed.

    Man, I bet you didn't see a single game of Butkevicius, how do you know that he was excellent? Stop with this stats stuff, enough of it already, it's been discussed dozen of times. With all due respect, I guess, you don't have an idea of LKL level, of Eurocup level, the differences between it. Stats sheets won't show you that, especially if you don't know how to read it. Then "needed athleticism"? We are fine with that, we have Ulanovas, who was toying with Butkevicius in finals, we have healthy Maciulis, at 4 we even have Sabonis. Athleticism is the last thing we lack. Shooting touch is way more problematic. I'm not saying that Bendzius would solve it tho. But he might have advantage in coaches plans just cause he is better shooter. And what he has to do with Sabonis, Jankunas? Nothing. Maybe Kuzminskas can come into discussion here as he can stretch the floor well. Overall, I feel awkward of being some kind of advocate for Bendzius, cause I'm not, just a pure guess of mine that Adomaitis will seriously consider him as an option. Tbh I wouldn't pick any of them to my team


  16. #856
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    odds to make to final roster:

    Jonas Valančiūnas 1,005
    Domantas Sabonis 1,005
    Mantas Kalnietis 1,01
    Mindaugas Kuzminskas 1,01
    Lukas Lekavičius 1,02
    Marius Grigonis 1,02
    Edgaras Ulanovas 1,02
    Renaldas Seibutis 1,1
    Jonas Mačiulis 1,15
    Rokas Giedraitis 1,23
    Paulius Jankūnas 1,6


    mystery how come Giedraitis chances better than Jankunas.Maybe they dont believe he can stay healthy
    It's just an opinion from one bookmaker guy, don't take it for granted


  17. #857
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    I guess, you don't have an idea of LKL level, of Eurocup level....
    Actually I do have an "idea". Rytas was a way above average LKL team this past year and only a very slightly above average Eurocup team. Rytas may of course have done better at year's end in both the Eurocup and LKL playoffs had their starting PG not gone down with an injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Stop with this stats stuff, enough of it already, it's been discussed dozen of times.
    Stats are valuable insofar as they're an objective measure. They're only good for comparing like with like though. But that's the only way I use them. And in this instance I only used Butkevičius' LKL stats to assess his LKL play this past year - which is right and proper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    I'm not saying that Bendzius would solve it tho. But he might have advantage in coaches plans just cause he is better shooter. And what he has to do with Sabonis, Jankunas? Nothing.
    Well given that they all played largely in the PF position this past season, it's fair to compare these players one to another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    I wouldn't pick any of them to my team
    So then you'd just go with eleven players?

    But incidentally, I thought you were a "Moderator" here? Why then are you deliberating going out of your way to provoke another member (me in this case) with immoderate comments in response to a rather mild-mannered post of mine in which I put down no one? I'm now rather irked to put it mildly.
    Last edited by Hepcat; 07-24-2019 at 02:04 PM.

  18. #858
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Actually I do have an "idea". Rytas was a way above average LKL team this past year and only a very slightly above average Eurocup team. Rytas may of course have done better at year's end in both the Eurocup and LKL playoffs had their starting PG not gone down with an injury.
    Stats are valuable insofar as they're an objective measure. They're only good for comparing like with like though. But that's the only way I use them. And in this instance I only used Butkevičius' LKL stats to assess his LKL play this past year - which is right and proper.
    Stats are valuable only as a filler for full picture, they can only help a bit, but you can't rate players on stats only. You do that and that's wrong. There are lot of other components you simply don't put into consideration this way, like competition level, team level, role of the player and etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Well given that they all played largely in the PF position this past season, it's fair to compare these players one to another.
    Again you are talking what it's like in theory, like never watched them playing. If even players plays in the same position at some point, doesn't mean they has the same characteristics. Sabas and Jankunas aren't floor stretching players, they are more PF/C. Bendzius is PF/SF, who's main weapon at PF is exactly shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    So then you'd just go with eleven players?
    Do we have just 13 players in preliminary list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    But incidentally, I thought you were a "Moderator" here? Why then are you deliberating going out of your way to provoke another member (me in this case) with immoderate comments in response to a rather mild-mannered post of mine in which I put down no one? I'm now rather irked to put it mildly.
    That's very cheap shot from you. I'm discussing here as regular user, not as moderator and nobody was provoking you. Or I should say you're provoking me too with your reply? This is discussion forum, so prepare to face different opinion or I should add smileys after each sentence? C'mon


  19. #859
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Stats are valuable only as a filler for full picture, they can only help a bit, but you can't rate players on stats only. You do that and that's wrong. There are lot of other components you simply don't put into consideration this way, like competition level, team level, role of the player and etc.
    Quite simply I do not take only stats into consideration. I posted these very words a few posts ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    The only reason I mentioned Arnas Butkevičius' name a few months ago is that I noticed he was registering not only pretty good but rather unusual numbers for a SF. If however in a few weeks time Adomaitis decides that Adas Juškevičius and/or Martinas Geben are a better fit for the team than Butkevičius, I won't protest. I'll just shrug.

    That after all is the purpose of training camp. We'll all have a better idea of which players are best at executing whatever system and game plans Adomaitis has devised in a few short weeks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Arnas Butkevičius was better than decent on the LKL level this past year; he was excellent. And he would add a needed element of hustle and athleticism on defence to the team. The problem I see though is his presence would necessitate going into the tournament without a dedicated backup center, i.e. Martinas Geben, and a combo guard, i.e. Adas Juškevičius or Žygimantas Janavičius, who could in an emergency play some PG. So I just don't know.

    But with Domantas Sabonis, Paulius Jankūnas and Mindaugas Kuzminskas available for the team, I don't see that Eimantas Bendžius is needed.
    Didn't my words indicate that I understood that different players bring different skill sets to the team and that Coach Adomaitis was going to have to decide which skill set can help the team the most?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Again you are talking what it's like in theory, like never watched them playing. If even players plays in the same position at some point, doesn't mean they has the same characteristics. Sabas and Jankunas aren't floor stretching players, they are more PF/C. Bendzius is PF/SF, who's main weapon at PF is exactly shooting.
    Okay. Fair enough, although Mindaugas Kuzminskas is I believe a SF/PF type of player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Do we have just 13 players in preliminary list?
    But you didn't mention then which player you'd suggest as the twelfth man on the squad instead of either Bendžius or Butkevičius!


  20. #860
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Quite simply I do not take only stats into consideration. I posted these very words a few posts ago:

    Didn't my words indicate that I understood that different players bring different skill sets to the team and that Coach Adomaitis was going to have to decide which skill set can help the team the most?
    Yeah, you wrote that you will judge by camps, that's how it should work of course, but for now as I understood and you wrote it some time ago, you are judging how good player is only by stats, cause you don't (can't) watch the games. Not a big deal, but don't take it personally when we are trying to correct you at some points

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Okay. Fair enough, although Mindaugas Kuzminskas is I believe a SF/PF type of player.
    He is, I wrote about it in my first reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    But you didn't mention then which player you'd suggest as the twelfth man on the squad instead of either Bendžius or Butkevičius!

    I didn't, there was no need to, but if you are interested, now I would take Juskevicius


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