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  • Jonas is really bad in pikenroll defence even compared to other centers thats clear to most teams how they are attacking him.

    But saying that Jonas is huge force offensively way bigger than Domantas is.But with Domas as center and 4 mobile players defence becomes really tough to beat.



    Number says that playing them together was minus for entire our team againts both elite teams we played,we simply were too slow .

    Our coaches must find right formula for Jonas offence and Domas all around game+defence.This tournament shown playing two bigs that cant shoot is bad idea,elite teams gonna take advantage of that.

    Comment


    • Mačiulis got healthy just before camp, he may be better after healthy season. Or more tired
      The Moon Is A SCAM(http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm)!

      Comment


      • You can find minutes and +/- of V+S playing together here:
        Naujojo rinktinės trenerio paieška tikrai nebuvo paskutiniųjų Arvydo Sabonio ir Mindaugo Špoko darbo metų planuose. Po Tokijo olimpinių žaidynių baigsis dabartinio LKF prezidento kadencijos terminas ir šalies krepšinis rinks naują vadą, o su juo greičiausiai ateis ir naujas generalinis sekretorius. Viskas buvo suderinta taip, kad tada turėjo baigtis ir Dainiaus Adomaičio kontraktas su federacija.

        11 minutes on average is pretty much what we were predicting.

        Them not playing well together is worse news for 3rd center than for team, I think
        The Moon Is A SCAM(http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm)!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Shawshank View Post
          But saying that Jonas is huge force offensively way bigger than Domantas is.But with Domas as center and 4 mobile players defence becomes really tough to beat.
          What comes to pure scoring, JV is more reliable, consistent and predictable option than Sabonis. JV is elite low post scorer and has great hands, always had, one of the best at it in the world. He also is very efficient scorer. But mind that it was pretty much first Sabonis season in the NT with a big role. He also was forced to get out of his comfort zone often. With time he will polish his game better and will adjust to system better, likely playing more on more center in the future.

          As of now Jonas is more reliable scorer, but he's impact offensively will always also be limited because he doesn't play within the flow. That means we should stop the vital and natural basketball and set the offence entirely for JV. He won't generate a lot of assists, never happened. I think Nurse, the guy who had JV for all these years, nailed it and polished JV's usage last season. He played him for active 18minutes and really tried to feed him. As LuDux correctly found, he was the most utilized player per minute in the Raptors offensively. So that's JV's usage for any winning elite team, be it NBA or FIBA. You can play him more of that's Grizzlies or Lithuania, but it's not winning basketball these days.

          Look at the numbers, JV scores 14 and 1 assist in WC. Sabonis cores 10,5 and 4 assists. It means JV generated 16-17ppg, Sabonis 18,5- 22,5ppg. Plus, Sabonis does playing within the flow much more, you don't need to simply post him up, he gets some of his points with the drives from the perimeter, quick p'n'r, hustle and so on. That means others feel more comfortable playing with Sabonis, even if he doesn't score or assist, we don't need to make mechanic, slow, post up sets every time, and with current JV it's basically the only way.

          Force feed JV for 18-20minutes and expect that he will have a monster game offensively, shooting 60-65%. That's the best and all you can get from JV. And we should do that, but I'm not holding the breath. Aside the miracle of 2015, other tournaments in 2016, 2017 and 2019 where we emphasized the game through JV were bad for us and it's probably the worse or second worst stretch in Lithuanian basketball history. Actually it's the worst.

          Love our JV boy, I created the thread when he was 17yo and was very high on him many years, but basketball went to different direction. 90s was JV's type of centers era.
          LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

          Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
          Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
          Buzelis, Lelevicius
          Murauskas, Sirvydis
          Tubelis, Krivas

          Comment


          • Valanciunas is basically unguardable 1 vs 1 you must double team him no other way...If Gobert had seriuos problems defending him when it was crunch time that says alot.

            Valanciunas played less time than Domantas and both got similiar touches ,Jonas just shooted way better and scored more and looked bigger force inside.

            Domantas looked way better in defence.

            When we dont have world class guards that can take over in last 5 minutes,Jonas is still our main option to score when defences toughen up.That this is not winning basketball in modern basketball I will not argue.

            Sabonis already was in team since 2015 he is no rookie by no means...it was his 3rd tournament.He was loosing his temper to often to my taste and was looking very shaky in 4 querters.Jonas played his best basketball in both 4 querters againts Aus and Fra.

            Jonas is coming to his peak years and I loved his emotions and fighters character he shown in 4 querters, he begin to feel moments when it really matters ( he was very close to will our team to win both times).Not in every tournament Mills and Fournier gonna make those really tough shots and close games.

            How it looks now our NT result wise had bad tournament,but if both Fra and Aus reach finals in such case we were very unlucky with draw and still had our chances even againts best teams of entire tournament.

            We played through guy who is our best player I don't believe that's a mistake.Btw I liked how Adomaitis used Jonas 22min it sounds right.

            I just couldn't stand seeing them both in 4 querter together.This is dead sentence againts teams with world class guards .

            NT with just Jonas C were +.With just Domantas C it was +.
            But with both of them NT were minus againts both Aus and Fra.

            After things calm down I don't thing our team played badly in 2019, it looks that we got f**ked up by a Chinese draw and lost 2 heartbreaks in last minute againts medalist teams.


            Valanciunas,Sabonis, Grigonis will be our big 3 till 2024 + 5-6 hard nose workers this team can win medal I'm confident in that.We won't get such draw every year.
            Last edited by Shawshank; 09-12-2019, 04:33 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Shawshank View Post
              Valanciunas is basically unguardable 1 vs 1 you must double team him no other way...If Gobert had seriuos problems defending him when it was crunch time that says alot.
              In the post. I never said contrary. He's elite low post player. However, no or very little improvement in reading double defence, luckily for us he wasn't doubled much in WC.


              Originally posted by Shawshank View Post
              Jonas is coming to his peak years and I loved his emotions and fighters character he shown in 4 querters, he begin to feel moments when it really matters.Not in every tournament Mills and Fournier gonna make those really tough shots and close games.
              .
              Well so far they did in 2016, 2017 and 2019 If we'll wait till Fournier or Mills will miss an open jimmy with JV's p'n'r in every forth tournament, that's not a good plan BTW, nor De Colo, not specially Mills shots were really tough. They simply utilized the separation and got pretty much an open shots. JV's waving hands after the ball already released is just a meaningless effort.


              Originally posted by Shawshank View Post
              That this is not winning basketball in modern basketball I will not argue.
              So basically you're saying we banging our heads to the wall and you're fine with it. I'm not. I more than convinced already that we are not going to win anything with JV as expressed No.1 option. 2019 WC team was best in recent years not because JV played well, but because Grigonis, Lekavicius, Ulanovas stepped up and that was a huge boost. It sounds harsh, but the lesser JV's role and the bigger our guards and wings role, the better we are off. No-one is winning this way. Spain is lead by Rubio, Australia Mills and Ingles, Argentina by Campazzo, France by Fournier, even Serbia is more of Bog team than Jokic. Unless you have unicorn as Dirk, Pau, Porzingis, you don't want to make a lumberjack center your No.1 option, it doesn't work.

              Originally posted by Shawshank View Post
              We played through guy who is our best player I don't believe that's a mistake.Btw I liked how Adomaitis used Jonas 22min it sounds right .
              I'm not sure JV is our best player. Combine JV's defence, offensive one-dimentionality and I have doubts. Don't ignore the fact that Kalnietis, Lekavicius and Sabonis generated more points for the team than JV did. Look at assists either. Sure, JV showed some leadership, some nice stretches in the game against France. So what? Grigonis did that as well in the game against Aussies, just as Lekavicius. Where's the credit for them? Jeo Ingles was scoring just 10,5pts for Autralia, but he generated 6apg, and you can guess who I would take, JV or Ingles for our team.



              Originally posted by Shawshank View Post
              Valanciunas,Sabonis, Grigonis will be our big 3 till 2024 + 5-6 hard nose workers this team can win medal I'm confident in that.We won't get such draw every year.
              You always make that conservative move. Things changing faster than you project. You was saying Lekavicius will be a guy who will come from the bench and maybe will score, but at the same time will be complete non-factor in other games. If I remember correctly you were projecting around 5ppg for him or so. But he would had been our best scorer if he had Kalnietis, Sabonis, Valanciunas or Ulanovas minutes. He was second best scorer only because he played 17,7min. Maybe these three players will be out main guys, maybe not. Brazdeikis can easily pass Grigonis in two, three years, easily. So can Sirvydis or Kulboka. Im not saying it will happen, but I surely wouldn't say this is our best players for upcoming 5 years. There might pan out 4 better players in five years.
              LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

              Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
              Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
              Buzelis, Lelevicius
              Murauskas, Sirvydis
              Tubelis, Krivas

              Comment


              • Not that it was a surprise or unexpected, but just to state a fact that Kazlauskas rejected a possibility of return even for one summer. But overall it was nice interview with him on 24sek summing up the situation around NT, basketball overall

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mindozas View Post
                  Not that it was a surprise or unexpected, but just to state a fact that Kazlauskas rejected a possibility of return even for one summer. But overall it was nice interview with him on 24sek summing up the situation around NT, basketball overall
                  I respect Kazlauskas, but I hate when the coach of his calibre allows himself to make such harsh mistakes as "Kalnietis, Valanciunas, Sabonis, Maciulis are the main guys of the team". I mean, I understand Maciulis was huge in 2015 and you have great memories, but in 2019 he wasn't even close being among 4 best players. 8th in scoring, 7th in eff. And he wasn't a glue guy at D any more, actually made tons of mistakes this time. It's just pure BS. I can't image Jasikevicius making such harsh mistake.

                  Another thing, it's shouldn't be elections, federation should take resposability. So Sabonis took responsibility with Adomaitis, Spokas openly said, Sabas takes responsibility for this. Now Sabonis will take responsibility again? This is hilarious.
                  LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

                  Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
                  Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
                  Buzelis, Lelevicius
                  Murauskas, Sirvydis
                  Tubelis, Krivas

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LuDux View Post
                    Kuzminskas looked.. distracted?
                    His numbers were definitely disappointing. I'm not sure why, other than the fact that he prefers to play SF but ended up playing most of his minutes at the PF slot.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Shawshank View Post
                      Let's see what cold number averages say without like/dislike/emotions:
                      Yes, let's do so. Team Lietuva didn't lose those two pivotal games to Australia and then France due to overall defensive deficiencies. Those games were lost because the Lithuanian team could not hit the three. Lithuania made 4/15 from three point range against Australia while the Aussies shot 11/26. Lithuania made 5/19 from three point range against France while the French shot 9/23. Draining just one more three pointer in each of these games could very well have resulted in wins for Lithuania.

                      For the tournament as a whole Lithuania was 28th at 27.4% in three point shooting efficiency. And the team was dead fucking last in average three pointers made per game at 4.6. Puerto Rico was 31st with 5.0, New Zealand was 1st with 12.4 and gold medal winning Spain had 9.1. The Lithuanian players simply turned sour from three point range in this tournament in a very atypical manner for a Lithuanian team. And it wasn't due to player selection. They all shot well below expected levels.

                      Such a shame. The team was a solid fourth from the charity stripe at 81.3%. Moreover the team turned in an absolutely stellar performance when it came to turnovers which have over the years been the albatross around any Team Lietuva's neck. The team turned the ball over only 10.2 times per game which was the lowest of any team in the tournament. The team was clearly very well drilled and prepared to play.

                      Three point shooting was the single key factor bringing Team Lietuva down at this championship.

                      Last edited by Hepcat; 09-16-2019, 03:07 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Svajunas View Post
                        Unfortunatly I can't find JV's +- to back my opinion.
                        They're all right here:

                        The official website of FIBA, the International Basketball Federation, and the governing body of Basketball. FIBA organises the most famous and prestigious international basketball competitions including the FIBA Basketball World Cup, the FIBA World Championship for Women and the FIBA 3x3 World Tour. The website features live and on demand videos, basketball news, over 70,00 players profile and thousands of teams profiles, schedules and statistics of all FIBA Events as well as results and statistics from over 80 national basketball leagues.


                        Originally posted by Svajunas View Post
                        It's obvious to everyone, that with JV on the floor - we cant defend pnr. Unless we find a way to do that, there is no way that more pt for JV would be good.

                        At the same time you look at Domas %, but you forget that he can defend pnr and can effectively switch. Thats why he will take over JV's role in years to come.
                        The stat sheets actually don't support your contention that Sabonis should have gotten some of the floor time allocated to Valančiūnas, particularly when we focus on Team Lietuva's two losses:

                        AUSTRALIA

                        Valančiūnas 23:24, - 9, 11 EFF
                        Sabonis 25:31, -8, 19 EFF

                        FRANCE

                        Valančiūnas 26:14, +4, 20 EFF
                        Sabonis 25:31, -7, 7 EFF

                        Last edited by Hepcat; 09-15-2019, 06:53 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LuDux View Post
                          You can find minutes and +/- of V+S playing together here:

                          Naujojo rinktinės trenerio paieška tikrai nebuvo paskutiniųjų Arvydo Sabonio ir Mindaugo Špoko darbo metų planuose. Po Tokijo olimpinių žaidynių baigsis dabartinio LKF prezidento kadencijos terminas ir šalies krepšinis rinks naują vadą, o su juo greičiausiai ateis ir naujas generalinis sekretorius. Viskas buvo suderinta taip, kad tada turėjo baigtis ir Dainiaus Adomaičio kontraktas su federacija.


                          11 minutes on average is pretty much what we were predicting.

                          Them not playing well together is worse news for 3rd center than for team, I think
                          Indeed! Which is why I'm afraid adding Artūras Gudaitis, another natural center, won't make much difference to the team. There are already too few minutes in a game to allocate between Team Lietuva's two NBA centers.

                          What the team badly needs to find before next summer is a PF. Will Paulius Jankūnas round back into form at the age of 36? Will Gytis Masiulis be ready to step up to the big time? Because realistically I don't see anybody else right now. Neither Mindaugas Kuzminskas nor Jonas Mačiulis are naturally suited for the position and I just don't think that Eimantas Bendžius or Martynas Echodas can cut it at this level.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by madmax View Post
                            JV should have played more, especially in 2 do-or-die games againt aussies and frenchies - I don't care what his detractors say, he's hands down our best player and he needs to be involved in the game more. I mostly blame Adomaitis here for mismanaging his usage and minutes in important games.
                            I hate to be the one to tell you this, Max, but your credibility when it comes to the proper usage of Valančiūnas is really low. You were heaping scorn on both Coaches Kemzūra and Kazlauskas for being too hard on young Valančiūnas and not playing him 40+ minutes per game.

                            Originally posted by madmax View Post
                            Let's just hope that the next coach will be better equipped tactically and we will not have washed up scrub Jankunas missing shots in the late important game situations.
                            If you looked at the bench, you might see the same thing Coach Adomaitis saw, i.e. no other natural PFs to be found. And that's why Adomaitis was forced to resort to giving even an old Žalgiris (heaven forbid) player a whopping 4:25 of court time against Australia and 3:42 of court time against France.

                            Originally posted by madmax View Post
                            And finally, our dear former coach, who runs and acts on emotions mainly... The less is said about him and his tactics, especially in late game situations, the better. It's only fitting that the guy found enough sense and courage to resign after all of his blunders.
                            And now Team Lietuva will end up with a much worse coach. More on that later.

                            Last edited by Hepcat; 09-15-2019, 11:41 PM.

                            Comment


                            • To SF

                              Why you always tend to downplay and underrate a center in this game? Saying Spain is lead by Rubio is a false statement and disrespect to Marc. He scored 30+ pts in a crucial semifinal and mostly by him Spain survived in that game. His impact is huge in Spain team. Spain is lead by Rubio and Gasol jr. - it makes sense. Not mentioning Marc - your fantasies where big players have a small role. But somehow this slow 34 y.o. center was one of the best WC players.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dreamcatcher View Post
                                To SF

                                Why you always tend to downplay and underrate a center in this game?
                                Because he has a pronounced tendency to overstate his case.

                                Comment

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