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Thread: Slovenia Redeem team upset biggest in bball history?

  1. #21
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    In all honestly, I wouldn't be worried about Greece qualifying. They traditionaly have a lot of depth, even if this tournament didn't show that.

    As for Slovenia, big upset? definately. Probably the biggest upset in the last 20 years considering the odds bookies gave or winning it all. Of all times? I can't judge that.
    For upsets not including winning it all, Macedonia few years back or Germany in 2005 imo were still a bit more surprising.

    I feel bad for Latvia. Once again, I made a list I believe 4 years ago, which consisted from some mere 1,2 point loses or really tough groups or lack of luck with drawings. They could have played in the finals for the upset as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    The teams might build good chemistry during the 2 years qualification. But who will play in the end? All the best players are playing in Nba or Euroleague. It looks to me 1 team will qualify and the other will play. Not fair to guys who will qualify and for sure no new chemistry. I don't believe Greece will play in WC 2019 with Fiba champions league players and Bourousis.
    For top teams which have top EL and NBA players you might be right. But if these federations can make a preliminary roster of 22 players, and allow some of the Euroleague players to participate during some games of the qualification phase, it will help the team build good chemistry. There are after all some games in June and July. Not to mention that these teams would be functioning under the same coach for some years, which is a big plus. It certainly would be for Greece.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joško Poljak Fan View Post
    In all honestly, I wouldn't be worried about Greece qualifying. They traditionaly have a lot of depth, even if this tournament didn't show that.
    It's not about qualifying. It's about using the opportunity to build good chemistry which they lack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fasoulaki View Post
    Hopefully 2017 EC will have stronger impact on Slovenia than 1993 EC on Germany.
    Slovenia unlike 93. Germany has long basketball tradition and it's audiance. Sure they need boost since they are actually hit by players production crisis and they will get it from this EC, but it's not like they are basketball "newcomers"
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    Well... that impact ussualy starts showing with kids at the range of 13-15, since more of them take up basketball more seriously.

    Olimpija's F4 in 1997 and their perfomances untill 2001 grew our 84-87 generations...
    than there was some pause and mixed performances
    2009 EC gave us 95' generation (Rebec, Nikolič, partialy 97' Šiško, Mesiček, Čančar)
    2013 gave us 98' and 99' generations... apart from Dončič, there is Macura, Samar, Duščak, Radovič
    With the 17 EC, I espect 02', 03', 04' generations to profit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joško Poljak Fan View Post
    Well... that impact ussualy starts showing with kids at the range of 13-15, since more of them take up basketball more seriously.

    Olimpija's F4 in 1997 and their perfomances untill 2001 grew our 84-87 generations...
    than there was some pause and mixed performances
    2009 EC gave us 95' generation (Rebec, Nikolič, partialy 97' Šiško, Mesiček, Čančar)
    2013 gave us 98' and 99' generations... apart from Dončič, there is Macura, Samar, Duščak, Radovič
    With the 17 EC, I espect 02', 03', 04' generations to profit...
    maybe in Europe. but I`d take Cavs coming back from 3-1 last year as the biggest upset

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    I've started watching basketball back in early 90s. And if we are talking about international competitions, then it is the second biggest upset only after Germany-93. Realistically, if the maximum of the roster's "objective worth" is concerned, Slovenia is somewhere near 8th position plus/minus a couple of places. But Slovenia terrifically overperformed while most of its potential eliminators underperformed. Still Slovenia - Spain semifinal is an upset of the century for me, I can't quite get how it happened and why to this very day.

    But at the same time this means that this Slovenian team is the weakest Eurobasket champion since quite a some time... most probably, Germany-93. I don't think that, despite the fact that people love Cinderella stories, it is a good thing for European basketball.

    I was mostly considering about Europe though, as in the world basketball there happened some stuff comparable and maybe even outshining than this Slovenia's win - Venezuela-2015 was possibly more of an upset, especially with back-to-back wins against heavily favoured Canada and Argentina in the play-offs.
    Last edited by Terrorizer; 09-21-2017 at 01:39 PM.
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    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorizer View Post
    I've started watching basketball back in early 90s. And if we are talking about international competitions, then it is the second biggest upset only after Germany-93. Realistically, if the maximum of the roster's "objective worth" is concerned, Slovenia is somewhere near 8th position plus/minus a couple of places. But Slovenia terrifically overperformed while most of its potential eliminators underperformed. Still Slovenia - Spain semifinal is an upset of the century for me, I can't quite get how it happened and why to this very day.

    But at the same time this means that this Slovenian team is the weakest Eurobasket champion since quite a some time... most probably, Germany-93. I don't think that, despite the fact that people love Cinderella stories, it is a good thing for European basketball.

    I was mostly considering about Europe though, as in the world basketball there happened some stuff comparable and maybe even outshining than this Slovenia's win - Venezuela-2015 was possibly more of an upset, especially with back-to-back wins against heavily favoured Canada and Argentina in the play-offs.
    Against Spain is simple explanation, Kokoskov outplayed Scariolo and Doncic Rubio.
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    Lol at the biggest upset in the history of Eurobasket . Slovenia came with their best squad that they could gather also they naturalized american player just before the start of the tournament while Serbia,Spain,France and some other countries have missed lots of great players, I would call this Slovenian team the weakest champion in modern history of the European basketball. The biggest upset is Russia beating Spain on their own turf, that was the great Spain team loosing a real underdog team . You were lucky that this was the weakest Eurobasket ever, congratulation on your title but don't start BS topic like this one. It is so stupid.
    Last edited by Srle; 09-24-2017 at 09:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle View Post
    Lol at the biggest upset in the history of Eurobasket . Slovenia came with their best squad that they could gather also they naturalized american player just before the start of the tournament while Serbia,Spain,France and some other countries have missed lost of great players. You were lucky that this was the weakest Eurobasket ever, congratulation on your title but don't start BS topic like this one. it so stupid.
    First gz to Slovenia, second Srle stole my thoughts, Slovenia is not a surprise atleast not for me, Slovenia beating Spain was a surprise but Slovenia beating Serbia was not even close to surprise, when you look by the names even then Slovenia had better team than Serbia and probably 90% of the teams on this tournament
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle View Post
    Lol at the biggest upset in the history of Eurobasket . Slovenia came with their best squad that they could gather also they naturalized american player just before the start of the tournament while Serbia,Spain,France and some other countries have missed lots of great players, I would call this Slovenian team the weakest champion in modern history of the European basketball. The biggest upset is Russia beating Spain on their own turf, that was the great Spain team loosing a real underdog team . You were lucky that this was the weakest Eurobasket ever, congratulation on your title but don't start BS topic like this one. It is so stupid.
    What about Z. Dragic and Beno Udrih? This crying how Serbia came with B team is somehow pathetic. Slovenia in last 10 years never had full team. Who cares about that? Nobody. Would Serbia beat Slovenia in semis of 2009, if Udrih was there, Dragic wasn’t injured and Lakovic consequently wasn’t tired? I guess not. But they weren’t there and Serbia beat us fair and square. And this year after Doncic got injured and Dragic was totally exhausted, Slovenia played last Q with Z team. And won.
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    Senior Member ThePeraCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    What about Z. Dragic and Beno Udrih? This crying how Serbia came with B team is somehow pathetic. Slovenia in last 10 years never had full team. Who cares about that? Nobody. Would Serbia beat Slovenia in semis of 2009, if Udrih was there, Dragic wasn’t injured and Lakovic consequently wasn’t tired? I guess not. But they weren’t there and Serbia beat us fair and square. And this year after Doncic got injured and Dragic was totally exhausted, Slovenia played last Q with Z team. And won.
    i dont know where have you read in Srle's post that Serbia came with B team, anyway Serbia in 2009. was nowhere close to Slovenian team today, and this story about biggest upset ever is totally bs, you are pathetic, you are trying to marginalize that Serbia is missing 8 players, unfortunatley for you any of these players that Slovenia is missing are not even close to Jokic, i would like to see what would you say if Slovenia missed Dragic, also Jovic and Lazic got injured, Serbia destroyed Slovenia under the rim when Jovic was ingame when he couldnt play anymore our game fell apart, i dont know if you understand how stupid this is what you said "Dragic got exhausted so we played last Q with Z team"... well atleast he played
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  13. #33
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeraCar View Post
    i dont know where have you read in Srle's post that Serbia came with B team, anyway Serbia in 2009. was nowhere close to Slovenian team today, and this story about biggest upset ever is totally bs, you are pathetic, you are trying to marginalize that Serbia is missing 8 players, unfortunatley for you any of these players that Slovenia is missing are not even close to Jokic, i would like to see what would you say if Slovenia missed Dragic, also Jovic and Lazic got injured, Serbia destroyed Slovenia under the rim when Jovic was ingame when he couldnt play anymore our game fell apart, i dont know if you understand how stupid this is what you said "Dragic got exhausted so we played last Q with Z team"... well atleast he played
    My point is, you always play with players you have. If someone says congrats, but you was lucky because others didn’t have all players is not very nice.Slovenia in reality had Nba player Dragic, Euroleague player Randolph and 18 years old kid, all the other are playing in second, third or even worse competition in Europe. And I don’t believe you expected from players like Dimec, Vidmar, Cancar, Nikolic, Blazic, Zagorac, Prepelic, Muric and Rebec much. But with this players Slovenia went 9:0, beating France, Greece, Latvia, Spain and Serbia. I don’t think it’s the biggest surprise, but it’s top3.
    In last 4 minutes or something like that, when the result was equal, Slovenia team was something like that, Nikolic, Blazic, Prepelic, Cancar, Randolph, Vidmar, and maybe Muric, I don’t remember if he played. I don’t know how they made it and I don’t believe you would like to see many of them to play in Zvezda this year.

    Bookies had Slovenia 30:1.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 09-25-2017 at 07:00 AM.
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    To me is no surprise, as I wrote before tournament started Slovenia is an elite team. Basketball is more than math and calculation of players. Any team that has Dragić, Dončić and Randolph is elite team despite role players are not so "big". That actually helped Slovenia as this "no name" players had easier time to acept that they are role players

    Only upset is Slovenia beating Spain, but that was not something "imposible"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeraCar View Post
    i dont know where have you read in Srle's post that Serbia came with B team, anyway Serbia in 2009. was nowhere close to Slovenian team today, and this story about biggest upset ever is totally bs, you are pathetic, you are trying to marginalize that Serbia is missing 8 players, unfortunatley for you any of these players that Slovenia is missing are not even close to Jokic, i would like to see what would you say if Slovenia missed Dragic, also Jovic and Lazic got injured, Serbia destroyed Slovenia under the rim when Jovic was ingame when he couldnt play anymore our game fell apart, i dont know if you understand how stupid this is what you said "Dragic got exhausted so we played last Q with Z team"... well atleast he played
    Not just Jokic, but Teodosic,Bjelica etc. France missing Gobert,Batum Luwawu, Spain Lull ,Fernandez,Mirotic, Abrines, Italy missing Gallianri ,Greece missing Yannis etc. Every major basketball NT have missed at least one big star at this Eurobasket tournament. I know that was not Slovenian fault , but to claim that this was the greatest underdog story is just flat out BS
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    What could be the Slovenian team that will play in the World Qualifications (from November '17) and in the next years in the World Championship (2019) and Olympics (2020) if Slovenia qualifies?

    I group players in
    RETIRED: G.Dragic
    NBA: Udrith
    EUROLEAGUE: Doncic, Randolph, Nikolic, Blazic, Muric, Z.Dragic
    POSSIBLE QUALITY ADDITIONS: Vujacic, E.Lorbek, U.Slokar

    ROSTER WORLD QUALIFICATIONS (no NBA, no EUROLEAGUE):
    * Uppercase for players not in Eurobasket 20017
    Klobucar, Rebec, SISKO, Prepelic, LAPORNIK, VUJACIC, Cancar, Zagorac, KOSI, A.OMIC, Dimec, Vidmar

    ROSTER WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP and OLYMPICS:
    Doncic, Nikolic, UDRITH, Klobucar, Rebec, SISKO, Z.DRAGIC, Prepelic, Blazic, LAPORNIK, VUJACIC, Cancar, Muric, Randolph, Zagorac, KOSI, A.OMIC, Dimec, Vidmar

    QUESTION n.1: in a couple of years what are the players who could make a leap of quality and became a star (considering Doncic- Randolph- Prepelic as actual leader)? Nikolic? Cancar? Others?

    QUESTION n.2: what are the most promising young players born afterwards 1997 (apart from Doncic and Cancar, they are already in Senior National Team) ?

    I start a list:
    Blaz Mesicek 6-6 '97 Brindisi, Italy
    Luka Krajlevic 6-10 '97 BC, NCAA
    Matic Vesel 6-9 '98 Illinois, NCAA
    Jurij Macura 6-9 '99 Baskonia, Spain
    Nik Dragan 6-7 '00 Olimpia Lubiana
    Rok Radovic 6-6 '01
    Gregor Glass 6-5 '01
    Luka Smodis 6-4 '01

    Thank you for your attention

  17. #37
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    Not sure how it'll all work out but...

    E. Lorbek got cut of this team, almost as first. He wants to play, but is a mere shadow of his former self at the moment. He will likely retire.
    Vujačič and Udrih are a done story and won't participate with the NT for sure. G.Dragič and Vidmar are likely to retire from NT as well. However if Dragič shows up, along with Randolph and Kokoškov, Vidmar might change his mind for the next major competition.

    I'd consider a roste somwhat in the lines of this.

    PG: Nikolič, Rebec, Šiško

    They might not look scary... however as PG's are ussualy still developing through 24 of age... they could develop further. Šiško has a great IQ, but is a headcase, while Rebec in a suitable role is one of the most talented passers out there. The point is, both are above average creators with the potential to become very good at it

    SG: Z.Dragič, Prepelič, Blažič, Mesiček... maybee Hrovat for his defense, but he is too limited technicaly... Lapornik as a pure spot shooter kind of lacks that extra dimensions you expect from a modern SG,

    SF: obviously some of the SG's up there along with Dončič and Čančar. Čančar should imo develop nicely, he has a great stroke, good IQ and courtvision and... he is just long.I believe his wingspan is close to 7 feet and standing reach close to 9 feet. Those are decent numbers for NBA, while in europe they are outstanding. I'm fully confident he will develop into a very good player in europe if he stays healthy.

    PF: lol .... Murič brothers probably.... other younger players are a bit far fetched and it's not that likely most of them would develop into a NT level material (but than again, neither did Zagorac)... and Dino (younger Murič) is smaller than Edo, so basicaly he is a liability in defense even at noticably lower levels than eurobasket.

    C: another lol.... Dimec.... Omić as a naturalised player and untill Jurij Macura (99' born) I don't think we'll ever be decent there. Jurij will need more than 2 years to fulfill his potential although he played exceptionaly at U20 tournament considering his age (17 +1/2)... maybee Bolčina (95' 206cm, bulked-stretch C with decent range), but currently he isn't on this level at all.


    Backcourt will be decent for european standards even if Šiško and Mesiček fail to take the next step (1st head, 2nd back injuries), but inside presence is frustrating to say the least.

    Same goes with prospects: Samar and Duščak (both PG's and in Real's youth school now), brothers Klemen and Gregor Glas (SG/SF's), Radovič (SG/SF)... backcourt is definately promising to be fine in the 10 years period.
    Kraljevic might develop into a decent C, but overall there aren't any inside prospects in the range of Brezec, Nesterovič, Smodiš, E.Lorbek talent... apart from Macura that might get there
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

  18. #38
    Senior Member Alyosha12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle View Post
    Lol at the biggest upset in the history of Eurobasket . Slovenia came with their best squad that they could gather also they naturalized american player just before the start of the tournament while Serbia,Spain,France and some other countries have missed lots of great players, I would call this Slovenian team the weakest champion in modern history of the European basketball. The biggest upset is Russia beating Spain on their own turf, that was the great Spain team loosing a real underdog team . You were lucky that this was the weakest Eurobasket ever, congratulation on your title but don't start BS topic like this one. It is so stupid.
    LMAO are you for real? Are you seriously saying a Russia team, lead by a prime Andrei Kirilenko, by all accounts one of the best players from Europe of all time, prime Khryapa, and prime Holden, with Monia, Ponkrashov, Bykov, Pashutin, Savrasenko all being legit Euroleague players, with key roles on their teams is worse then Slovenia 2017? How can you even compare that team to a team of Dragic and Randolph who are legit players, with a very promessing 18 y/o and 9 other second tier players is beyond me. Russia was a top 4 team of that tournament beside Spain, Greece and Lithuania. Indecently all those teams also made it to the top 4. Would Spain win that game 4 out of 5 times. Sure they would. Was Russia being in the Final an upset in 2007? LMAO no.

    And for people to say the talent level of Slovenia is in any way better then Serbia is laughable at best. I admit the Germany winning it all in 93 was a bigger upset but that is it.

    That the talent level was not to best at this tournament also plays no role in the fact that this was the 2nd greatest upset in EB history. If teams were weaker, they were all weaker and it was the same for all teams competing. Its not like teams played Slovenia with their B team, and all the other teams with their A team.

    The point is, that before the tournament everybody and their mother were saying that Slovenia ranked somewhere between 8-12th place, which is fine, that is where I would rank them as well (had i not been a homer and ranked them 6th), but to say today, that it was even expected for Slovenia to win, and that we actually had a better team talent wise as Serbia is laughable. I mean you don't have to look much further then this forum:

    http://www.interbasket.net/forums/sh...on-2017/page14

    or here:

    http://www.interbasket.net/forums/sh...dictions/page2

    Most poster put us 3rd in our Group, a good many said we would finish 4th actually.

    Most people, betting sites and reporters agreed that the top contenders for Gold were Spain, Serbia and Croatia, second tier were France, Lithuania and Greece. And that is fine and correct, which makes Slovenia's upset that much more surprising.

    A good point to make is also, that our ride to the final was by no means easy. We had a tough group with France and Greece, a tough 1/4 against a crazy Lativa team, Spain and then Serbia. Except for the 1/8 no game was a piece of cake or luck with the draw.

  19. #39
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    Of course that was the biggest upset in the history of European Championships , prior to Eurobasket 2007 , Spain had won World Championship and Russia was nowhere near to strength of Spanish NT, you are too drunk with joy that you country have just won the weakest Eurobasket ever, so you can think clearly so you are writing lots of BS.
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    Default Not an upset some people believe it to be

    @Alyosha - I would have to agree with others that this was not such an amazing upset, because:
    - Slovenia had been a top 8 team for past 12 years making it to every quarters on WC or EB since 2005 with exception of 2015. It had a solid squad even before but with even worse results
    - team would have been if it was gathered with all the talents the second best team in Europe by quality of players beetween 2005-2010
    - the team has had immense amount of bad luck for not winning a medal before - a record meltdown in quarters against Greece in 2007 when it had amazing tournament behind it, in Eurobasket 2013 it lost to later champion (France in quarters), in Eurobasket 2009 it had injuries of Smodis and Dragic and lost to Serbia in semis after overtime and then to Greece for 3rd place for a point, in Eurobasket 2005 in the group stages it won against later champions Greece and 3rd France to lose against Germany in my opinion for underestimation, team had bad luck in facing US in WC 2014, when it would have made it to semis otherwise
    - bookies had it 30 to 1 - based on past results, which involved an immense amount of bad luck to start with. If you look at the quality of the squad, this should have been top 4 team
    - the team is solid - it does consist of 3 oustanding players (Doncic is outstanding by now), and it had additions of European level roleplayers that are young, hungry and on the up

    @the ones complaining about other teams have missing players, I can say this. All the other teams (including Spain) were very lucky for Slovenia having the longest lists of missing players in consecutive Eurobaskets, otherwise other teams would have had some medals less...
    - Eurobasket 2005 - solid team, yet with missing Beno Udrih (San Antonio Spurs), Matjaz Smodis (top European PF at the time - CSKA), Sasha Vujacic (Lakers), Marko Tusek (Lottomatica)
    - Eurobasket 2007 - again a lot of absences: Bostjan Nachbar (Houston Rockets), Beno Udrih (Sacramento Kings), Sasha Vujacic, Primoz Brezec (Pistons), Sani Becirovic
    - Eurobasket 2009 - Smodis (injured), Dragic (injured at the play offs), Vujacic (coach issue), Nesterovic (Raptors), Udrih (injured), Sani Becirovic
    -Eurobasket 2011 - Nachbar, Brezec, Udrih, Becirovic
    - Eurobasket 2015 - Dragic, Vidmar, Nachbar

    even if we look at the 2017 Eurobasket, you got missing Udrih, Vujacic, Nachbar & Zoran Dragic, all pretty god damn good additions.

    Talent going forward is questionable, but lets hope for the best.

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