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Thread: Who is the greatest European player ever?

  1. #41
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    Anyone that dies in their prime is always going to be remembered as a legend- Petrovic. James Dean. Marilyn monroe...and so on...

    So, we can't really base him as best player from Europe of all time.


    Now, I'm a little confused because are we talking about players that have made an impact in Europe or NBA???

    If Europe: Dejan Bodiroga.
    I don't think anyone can argue with that.

    NBA:

    Dirk Nowitzki

    Say what you want but this guy is a legend and MVP.
    Of course you can add players like Drazen, Toni, Peja, Ilgauskas, Sabonis, Divac, and so on.........

    But Dirk to me is the best of all. Plus, none of those other players have won MVP with Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Shaq, T-Mac, Nash and all those other hall of famers in the league.

    I don't know what kind of impact Danilovic made in NBA but he made a big one in Europe.

  2. #42
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    For me is Bodiroga. Not athletic but can do everything type of player. Wherever he went, he won. Great clutch performer and real leader. He only missed the Olympic gold medal. We all have our favorites and bunch of players from different era's could be considered as the best ever .
    UZEO SI TROFEJ MACVANE MACVANE MACVANE!!!

  3. #43
    Senior Member Picek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelijaZauvjek
    Anyone that dies in their prime is always going to be remembered as a legend- Petrovic. James Dean. Marilyn monroe...and so on...

    So, we can't really base him as best player from Europe of all time.


    Now, I'm a little confused because are we talking about players that have made an impact in Europe or NBA???

    If Europe: Dejan Bodiroga.
    I don't think anyone can argue with that.

    NBA:

    Dirk Nowitzki

    Say what you want but this guy is a legend and MVP.
    Of course you can add players like Drazen, Toni, Peja, Ilgauskas, Sabonis, Divac, and so on.........

    But Dirk to me is the best of all. Plus, none of those other players have won MVP with Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Shaq, T-Mac, Nash and all those other hall of famers in the league.
    they never won an MVP award because they played together with Jordan, Pippen, Robinson, Ewing, Malone, Stockton etc....
    those were basketball players and not parts of marketing industry Lebron, Kobe, Wade, T-mac and others are..
    Lebron is the most hyped player in the world.. in any sports.. what has he done to become that?
    Wade? have you seen him play internationall basketball?
    Kobe? what has he won after O'Neal left?
    T-Mac? biggest loser and choker in NBA in last 10 years..
    his team never got through first round of playoffs..
    Nash? good yes, but not good enough..
    "Heja, heja Cibosi, hrabri kao vukovi,

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  4. #44
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    Sabonis is perfect, i know, but he's a pivot. You cannot say a pivot is the best european basketball player and this applies to Dirk and Gasol. Maybe most valuable player but not best basketball player. These guys have the advantage of being so tall. Few other players have both their height and their skill. That's why I vote for Drazen Petrovic. I remember some games in the 80s and he was a myth before his accident, he was a myth before going to the NBA, before going to Real Madrid. Man, he was the perfect player...

  5. #45

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    Dejan Bodiroga
    there are also other players like Nick Galis,Sabonis,Kutluai,Nowitrzki,Stoyakovic,Drazen Petrovic,Dimitris Diamantidis,Kyrilenko,Vrankovic,Fragkiskos Alvertis,Dino Radja,Tony,Sarunas Jasikevicius could be number1
    ΕΚΕΙ ΠΟΥ ΕΧΩ ΤΑΞΙΔΕΨΕΙ ΕΓΩ,ΜΑΖΙ ΜΕ ΤΟΝ ΠΑΝΑΘΗΝΑΙΚΟ...
    Dejan Bodiroga oe oe oe...

  6. #46
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    I will give it my effort.

    First tier in any order (Galis is the best offensive player but he also had the great player and defender Giannakis next him to in the back court so I will say even for the top 3, I cannot decide which one):

    Galis
    Petrovic
    Marciulionis

    Second tier, this one in order:

    Bodiroga
    Tony Parker
    Sabonis

    Something like this I think for them. Parker can still move up as he is still young but it will be very hard to surpass the 4 players I have above him at least in my mind.

    Everyone can argue about Belov, Divac, Dirk, Pao, Kukoc, Korac, Dalipagic, etc., you know the 12-15 other players that can come up in these discussions.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Beva's Avatar
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    Here's video from '89 EC in Zagreb, Yugoslavia vs Greece... Here you can see a lot of Hall of Famers, present ones or future ones...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvEyuP0wJ6k

    Can you imagine what kind of a powerhouse Yugoslavia was back then... Just look at the team: Petrović, Radulović, Čutura, Kukoč, Paspalj, Zdovc, Radović, Vranković, Divac, Danilović, Rađa, Primorac... This was the European basketball at its best... And you can see here that Petrović was not only a scorer, he had great dribbling skills, and while playing in Europe he played numerous games in which he had about 10+ assists, sometimes even 20+ assists... In New Jersey, he averaged about 3 assists, and back then, assists were counted differently... Nowadays in NBA, if you pass to a player standing at a 3pt line, then that players dribbles his way to the basket and dunks, you'll get an assist... That's why there are so many assists more in NBA than in Europe, they are counted differently...

    And if you're talking about best European players, you can't forget Krešimir Ćosić and Josip Giergia from Croatia, Radivoje Korać and Dragan Kićanović from Serbia, Peter Vilfan and Ivo Daneu from Slovenia and Mirza Delibašić and Dražen Dalipagić from B&H (I'm talking about ex-Yu players, since I know them better, this doesn't mean they were THE best, this means they were one of the bests)...
    I changed my signature, now it says something completely different!

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beva
    Nowadays in NBA, if you pass to a player standing at a 3pt line, then that players dribbles his way to the basket and dunks, you'll get an assist...
    Is that true? So that would probably means that every attack someone gets an assist unless its Denver with Melo and Iverson
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward
    Is that true? So that would probably means that every attack someone gets an assist unless its Denver with Melo and Iverson
    Atleast last few seasons it was like that, not sure about this one though, but I don't believe that smth changed I was betting time from time on players' assists, so I was following that games and some "assists", that was counted were simply unbelievable Luckily they were in my favour though


  10. #50
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    nobody mentioned but Dragan Lukovski i think.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Delibasic's Avatar
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    read my username people

    he was the best. still the best. always the best

  12. #52
    Senior Member Delibasic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beva View Post
    Here's video from '89 EC in Zagreb, Yugoslavia vs Greece... Here you can see a lot of Hall of Famers, present ones or future ones...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvEyuP0wJ6k

    Can you imagine what kind of a powerhouse Yugoslavia was back then... Just look at the team: Petrovi?, Radulovi?, ?utura, Kuko?, Paspalj, Zdovc, Radovi?, Vrankovi?, Divac, Danilovi?, Ra?a, Primorac... This was the European basketball at its best... And you can see here that Petrovi? was not only a scorer, he had great dribbling skills, and while playing in Europe he played numerous games in which he had about 10+ assists, sometimes even 20+ assists... In New Jersey, he averaged about 3 assists, and back then, assists were counted differently... Nowadays in NBA, if you pass to a player standing at a 3pt line, then that players dribbles his way to the basket and dunks, you'll get an assist... That's why there are so many assists more in NBA than in Europe, they are counted differently...

    And if you're talking about best European players, you can't forget Krešimir ?osi? and Josip Giergia from Croatia, Radivoje Kora? and Dragan Ki?anovi? from Serbia, Peter Vilfan and Ivo Daneu from Slovenia and Mirza Delibaši? and Dražen Dalipagi? from B&H (I'm talking about ex-Yu players, since I know them better, this doesn't mean they were THE best, this means they were one of the bests)...
    svaka ti cast jarane na ovom post-u. suze si me krenule.

    Thanks for contributing. But in English please.
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    you're spot on brother
    Last edited by robbe; 05-16-2009 at 12:41 PM.

  13. #53
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    Dirk never won anything with his team in his career, he got all the individual awards, but i can`t consider him the greatest European of all time when he doesn`t have even one trophy or gold medal.

    For me it`s between Sabonis and Petrovic. Kukoc was the most talented European player ever, but he didn`t have the mental makeup of a true star.
    My blog about european hoops http://insidehoops.blog.com

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delibasic View Post
    read my username people

    he was the best. still the best. always the best
    I wish that I'd seen him play. I think there was a video on Youtube of him playing in the '80 Olympics, but I've never seen a full game of his. He's certainly got a great resume!

    1976 Montreal Olympics -- Silver
    1980 Moscow Olympics -- Gold
    1978 WC -- Gold
    1975 EC -- Gold
    1977 EC -- Gold
    "I really like the attitudes of eagles. They never give up. When they grab a fish or something else, they never let it go. It doesn't matter. In a book, they write they find a skeleton of [an] eagle and there is no fish. It means that the fish beat him and killed him, but he didn't let go." -- Donatas Motiejunas

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markoishvili View Post
    Dirk never won anything with his team in his career, he got all the individual awards, but i can`t consider him the greatest European of all time when he doesn`t have even one trophy or gold medal
    How about the MVP trophies? They sure mean something. As well as the bronze medal in the WC in 2002 and silver in Eurobasket 2005.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rikhardur View Post
    How about the MVP trophies? They sure mean something. As well as the bronze medal in the WC in 2002 and silver in Eurobasket 2005.
    They are considerable accomplishments, but i just can`t justify putting "Greatest of all time" title to a player that never won NBA title, Olympic gold medal, Euroleague, European or World Championship title. Heck, he wasn`t even the German champion because his team played in 2nd division.

    He deserves to be in conversation, but considering his lack of team success he comes up a bit short in comparasion with Sabonis and Petrovic.
    My blog about european hoops http://insidehoops.blog.com

  17. #57

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    I think it is very difficult to answer generically about such thing. My impression about different aspects of the game are the following:

    1) Most talented: Sabonis, I don't think anyone comes close. A 2.21 center who shoots the 3 with consistency, it a brilliant passer an intimidating presence and has a basketball genious unparalled by any other. If he had
    not suffered so many injuries, some American critics say he could have become the the best big man ever in the sport.

    2) Scoring. This is tought, but easily between two guys, Galis and Petrovic. Both have incredible scoring achievements, Galis has a better resume when it comes to numbers (he holds records for any competition he ever participated: in more than a decade in Aris he was averaging 37 points in the Greek championship, he has final four scoring records, he averaged more that 35 points in several international competiotions with the national team, etc.)
    Petrovic does not have such numbers, but he played on average on teams of higher level. So I will judge only to what I saw in their matchups: Galis was better.

    3) Best standing worldwide. Who was considered one of the top players in the world in his era? I have to argue than only Dirk has managed to be considered a top 5 player at a given time, no one has come close (except perhaps Tony Parker)Perhaps this is the best index is this one.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Delibasic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvblair View Post
    I wish that I'd seen him play. I think there was a video on Youtube of him playing in the '80 Olympics, but I've never seen a full game of his. He's certainly got a great resume!

    1976 Montreal Olympics -- Silver
    1980 Moscow Olympics -- Gold
    1978 WC -- Gold
    1975 EC -- Gold
    1977 EC -- Gold
    Don't forget he won Euro league with his team KK Bosna in 1979. First Yugo team to do this. They beat Varese 96-93. After Bosna he played for Real Madrid together with Dalipagic (another legend in his own right) and I believe won more club euro comps.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachos View Post
    I think it is very difficult to answer generically about such thing. My impression about different aspects of the game are the following:

    1) Most talented: Sabonis, I don't think anyone comes close. A 2.21 center who shoots the 3 with consistency, it a brilliant passer an intimidating presence and has a basketball genious unparalled by any other. If he had
    not suffered so many injuries, some American critics say he could have become the the best big man ever in the sport.

    2) Scoring. This is tought, but easily between two guys, Galis and Petrovic. Both have incredible scoring achievements, Galis has a better resume when it comes to numbers (he holds records for any competition he ever participated: in more than a decade in Aris he was averaging 37 points in the Greek championship, he has final four scoring records, he averaged more that 35 points in several international competiotions with the national team, etc.)
    Petrovic does not have such numbers, but he played on average on teams of higher level. So I will judge only to what I saw in their matchups: Galis was better.

    3) Best standing worldwide. Who was considered one of the top players in the world in his era? I have to argue than only Dirk has managed to be considered a top 5 player at a given time, no one has come close (except perhaps Tony Parker)Perhaps this is the best index is this one.
    I know you're biased since you're Greek so you voted for Galis, but Galis is way down the list. He can't even tie Drazen's shoelaces. Don't mean to upset you, but in ex-yugo circles Galis is a bit of a joke. Again I'm biased and very subjective ex-Yugo so Drazen is heaps better that Galis.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachos View Post
    3) Best standing worldwide. Who was considered one of the top players in the world in his era? I have to argue than only Dirk has managed to be considered a top 5 player at a given time, no one has come close (except perhaps Tony Parker)Perhaps this is the best index is this one.
    no it can't be the best index... it would be best index if he would have won the MVP award of championship final.. he didn't because they choked and he ddidn't crown his season with the ultimate award of all awards.. championship ring, after that MVP award means nothing but the good stats..

    if I remember correctly Kukoc was named best six player twice..
    it's not first five but still when you add NBA rings, european trophies, trophies with NT...
    well, then you can't put them in the same sentence..
    and not just with Kukoč but with numerous other european players.. Divac for example..
    "Heja, heja Cibosi, hrabri kao vukovi,

    heja, heja cibosi, vodite nas k pobjedi. "

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