[1/8 Finals] Croatia - Russia

[Jon_Koncak]

Dragan Bender is a bust. Because of KP, he was picked that high in the draft, you can't teach height, but at least you have to have that spark in the eyes, I see it in KP, I don't see it in Bender.

this guy will be the new Tsikitsvili.Young age excuse wont cut it anymore,he hasnt shown anything as a pro,not in Maccabi,not in NBA,not in Croatia Nt..

[ncjazz]

Dragan Bender is a bust. Because of KP, he was picked that high in the draft, you can't teach height, but at least you have to have that spark in the eyes, I see it in KP, I don't see it in Bender.

Calling a guy a bust after one year which he was injured for a lot of it at such a young age is very premature. He is 19 years old.

[ThePeraCar]

god hahahah "Necu vise odgovarati"

[Straight forward]

I have to say it was pleasure to watch Russia playing in the second half of the game. Shved played like a real NBA level talent, Fridzon rocked, some bench players rocked, they shared the ball, the ball moved in amazing fashion at some point. Shved is stealing the show in this Eurobasket. If he will come up with such performances in later stages, he's surely one of MVPs contenders.

[Killer Bob]

Calling a guy a bust after one year which he was injured for a lot of it at such a young age is very premature. He is 19 years old.

He was the bust the moment he was drafted as 4th. For player drafted that high, you hope he's a franchise player and he at best can be a role player. If he was drafted in second round, nobody would say he's a bust.

[Terrorizer]

Not willing to insult someone, but Croatians are biggest chokers in Eurobasket history, like England in football.

Choking is much more appropriate when you lead against someone and then blow out your lead in an extremely stupid manner. It's a very Russian thing. Even in this tournament it clearly happened in the game with Latvia. But I get it that for you it's extremely important in the case of any Russian success to make yourself believe that it was Russia's opponent who was lousy not that Russia was any good.

You can't expect more if Aco is your coach. He hasn't prepared anything. Just put the ball in Bogdanovic's or Saric's hand and pray.

Yep, Aco's strategy during this tournament was really questionable but with the same coach they've had a decent run during the Olympic qualifiers and the Olympics itself.

Wish them all the best, Bender is No 4. pick like KP, they should do something with their PG position. I hope they will not buy passports like shitfederations are doing - Holden, Randolph, Rice etc.

I like how you are still bringing up Holden alongside very contemprorary examples. But maybe you should also remind yourself that the Croatian "shitfederation" already tried this very path with Draper and Lafayette.

On the other side Russia isnt strong as well. They got 1 benchwarmer from NBA, random guy Shved, who can make 10 assists or 10 turnovers and can shoot 5/7 3pts or 0/7 like against Latvia. Other guys are just warming bench in Russian teams as well, because of their silly limit and have 0 motivation to develop as players, cause they know that no one can replace them. Demand > supply.

Yeah, stupid Russian benchwarmers, it's just a damn luck and Croatia's own deficiencies, Russia would kill to have someone like Janicenoks, with all his premier international experience, in their roster.

[Terrorizer]

I've missed the game itself but now I'm planning to watch it in replay. So far one thing which strikes me as a very important one is a moderately low number of turnovers for our team. Even Shved achieved assists to turnover ratio 12 to 1.

Congrats to Russia. we were outclassed. They are just much better team and were dominating since 1. minute. Croatia as usual, no creative guards, played disguistingly selfish 1 on 5 bball, lack of athleticism and brains... same old... Good luck to Russia in game vs. Greece

That's a kind of post I would be proud to write if my team loses in a similar manner. Kudos.

P.S. But naming Bastardosic as I like it is still my prerogative

[Picek]

Shved and co simply outclassed us.
even Terrorizer can't say anything bad against Shved now.
completely deserved win, if there was any momentum for us in the second quarter it was killed by Mozgov tip in buzzer beater.
can't believe we are so psychologically fucked up that we couldn't recover from that as in the second half we didn't even show up.
russians overrun us in the second.
two eight finals in two years, two different coaches and two 20+ points losses.
that pretty much says everything.
oh well, good thing is EB's are now every 4 years so dissappointments will be every fourth year and not every second.
if we even qualify.

[archaz]

Choking is much more appropriate when you lead against someone and then blow out your lead in an extremely stupid manner. It's a very Russian thing. Even in this tournament it clearly happened in the game with Latvia. But I get it that for you it's extremely important in the case of any Russian success to make yourself believe that it was Russia's opponent who was lousy not that Russia was any good.

Stop "being offended" by hateful Latvian, there are no politics, no one needs to offend Russia/Russians here. So ... Dont need to bring that shit in.
I didn't say anything bad about Russia, but Croatians are biggest chokers (IMO) in Europe and that's based not only yesterdays games, but all the time. Good squad > big expectations > bad result. Same strategy.

I like how you are still bringing up Holden alongside very contemprorary examples. But maybe you should also remind yourself that the Croatian "shitfederation" already tried this very path with Draper and Lafayette.

I wrote few examples, can't write ALL of them. Yes, Croatia had shitfederation that bought passports for Draper, same as Latvia did with Ostler etc.

Yeah, stupid Russian benchwarmers, it's just a damn luck and Croatia's own deficiencies, Russia would kill to have someone like Janicenoks, with all his premier international experience, in their roster.

Again, I didn't say anything bad about them, we were comparing squads. I said my opinion that Russia got weak squad as well and yes, 80% of your team are benchwarmers from Russian teams who are sitting here whole life and making 400% more money (not bad thing) because of stupid limit rules in your country. Obviously, they don't want to develop/grow and move forward (ACB/Greek teams), they are just sitting in their teams and everything is fine, budgets are good, competition for "Russian slots" are low, ideal format.

Choking is much more appropriate when you lead against someone and then blow out your lead in an extremely stupid manner. It's a very Russian thing. Even in this tournament it clearly happened in the game with Latvia.

See, your opinion is that you threw game against Latvia away, my opinion is that we were much stronger than you. We got 1 center in team, half of our squad since tournament first days had problems with stomach > physical conditions > someone even lost few kilos, referees gave fake fast fouls to KP and you still managed to lose in second half by 25. It isn't choking, it's called Shved, that guy isn't stable, he can shoot 3pts, make assists but next game he will 10 turnovers. That's why he's playing in Khimki, not CSKA.

[Shawshank]

Croatia and Slovenia are two best teams play in playoffs from all elite ones.Nobody have lost so many 1/8 and in 1/4 in last 20 years as they did.Is all because of their mentality.I will bet big money on Latvia, Slovenia will choke.They got too easy opponent 1/8 so won easily,but in 1/4 its not the case and they will choke as they chokes always when pressure arises in playoffs.Those country fans can hate me as much as they won, but history results prove that and its repeating all over again even when players changes.Croatia yesterday just quit playing...Bogdanovich said the best after the game.

[pohani komarac]

that's all true, but where are their players?? Where is Arapovic, Zizic, Zubac, Tomic, Bilan, Hezonja, Rudez, etc.?? Usual absence story. The team they fielded with Ukic, Tomas, Popovic, Zoric was a flashback from 10 years ago.

Arapović badly injured, others prepare for NBA

[Killer Bob]

Croatia and Slovenia are two best teams play in playoffs from all elite ones.Nobody have lost so many 1/8 and in 1/4 in last 20 years as they did.Is all because of their mentality.I will bet big money on Latvia, Slovenia will choke.They got too easy opponent 1/8 so won easily,but in 1/4 its not the case and they will choke as they chokes always when pressure arises in playoffs.Those country fans can hate me as much as they won, but history results prove that and its repeating all over again even when players changes.Croatia yesterday just quit playing...Bogdanovich said the best after the game.

Of course they can lose tomorrow. Just look how our team looks. We have Dragic, Randolph and 18 years kid. No one else would be in the rooster of any serious NT. Muric is a starter and can't even get a decent contract. It's incredible how they're playing in this tournament. Slovenia has 2 million people and are very good in many sports. Much better than Lithuanians if I may add. It's somehow unrealistic we will be medal contender every year in every sport. Btw. I was impressed how Lithuania handled pressure against great Greece.

Our roster, I'm sure, you never heard half of names. They can't choke, because they should normally never be here.

Matic Rebec (PG, 1.80m, 1995, Krka)
Goran Dragić (PG, 1.91m, 1986, Miami Heat)
Žan Mark Šiško (PG, 1.90m, 1997, Ilirija)
Aleksej Nikolić (PG, 1.91m, 1995, Brose Bamberg)
Jaka Blažič (SG, 1.96m, 1990, Andorra)
Klemen Prepelič (SG, 1.91m, 1992, Paris-Levallois)
Miha Lapornik (SG, 1.94m, 1993, Bilbao)
Luka Dončić (PG/SG/SF, 2.01m, 1999, Real Madrid)
Edo Murić (SF, 2.02m, 1991, Banvit)
Vlatko Čančar (SF, 2.03m, 1997, Mega Leks, Denver Nuggets?)
Jan Kosi (PF, 2.04m, 1996, Primorska)
Saša Zagorac (PF, 2.06m, 1984, Sopron)
Anthony Randolph (PF, 2.11m, 1989, Real Madrid)
Gašper Vidmar (C, 2.11m, 1987, Banvit)
Žiga Dimec (C, 2.11m, 1993, Krka)

[Terrorizer]

Shved and co simply outclassed us.
even Terrorizer can't say anything bad against Shved now.

I can say a lot of bad about Shved after any of his games, even after this one. His playing manner is just infuriating, despite his 12 assists Shved's decision-making still enrages me an awful lot. And I think that he is not only unwilling but also unable to change. One thing which is constant in Shved's playing manner, no matter how good or bad his individual stats will be, is that he will always rush the tempo and settle for very dubious shots. Truth is that when he mostly hits those as he did against Croatia, it doesn't matter that much. Still I think that trusting your team's success on Shved's individual heroics is like going through a landmine field without any map or beforehand knowledge. Luckily, it seems that even Bazarevich tends to think so as in the end of the fourth quarter in a game with Greece we played with Shved on the bench and hence we were able to cling onto what was left from our lead after Shved almost singlehandedly blew it away in a minute and a half. It was Khvostov who hit a crucial shot and that was a wise decision from our coaching staff not to put everything into Shved's hands. By the way, I've expected much worse coaching from Bazarevich and his crew. I listen to what he says during time-outs very carefully and he shows quite a flexibility and tactical variation with his recommendation. Sad thing is that often our players are running like headless chicken instead of sticking to what the coach asked them to do during the time-outs.

completely deserved win, if there was any momentum for us in the second quarter it was killed by Mozgov tip in buzzer beater.

I don't think that was a real turning moment which killed momentum completely for Croatian side. The game was still close and tense in the middle of the third quarter as Croatia always got back to minor deficit like -4 or -6 after Russia scored some baskets. I suspect that the game was lost for Croats when Saric fouled on Shved's three-pointer attempt and then Fridzon started to hit those shots. And I was definitely surprised by our concentration and effort when we started to lead with +10 to +15 difference. Previously such a lead was almost universally followed by the loss of focus and complete disintegration in both offense and defense. But here we stayed focused and dedicated, especially in defense, and it was such a good thing to see.

Stop "being offended" by hateful Latvian, there are no politics, no one needs to offend Russia/Russians here. So ... Dont need to bring that shit in.

I did not bring up politics here but, no matter what your political views really are and how much you are pro/anti-Russian in your worldview, you definitely have no sympathies for our basketball and national team.

Again, I didn't say anything bad about them, we were comparing squads. I said my opinion that Russia got weak squad as well and yes, 80% of your team are benchwarmers from Russian teams

There are key players (let's consider, for example, CSKA, these are guys like de Colo and Teodosic), there are valuable players who are not the go-to guys for their teams (Vorontsevich, Kurbanov, Fridzon with some stretch) and there are benchwarmers (Kulagin brothers, Antonov). A player who typically plays in a 12 to 18 minutes per game range is not a benchwarmer in my opinion. We can say that aside from Shved (and also having Karasev's absence in mind) this Russian team lacks players who are the main offensive weapons in their teams - yep, that's true. But let's take Spain which is rightly viewed as the most powerful team here. How many of its players played more than 25 minutes and averaged more than 10 points per game this last season? Is it also a team of sloppy role players and bench warmers who can only thank NBA's conservatism ('Gasol bros did good back in time, let's sign another Spaniard' logic) and 'cupo rule' allowing all the San Emes to have their minutes even in a not so tender age?

who are sitting here whole life and making 400% more money (not bad thing) because of stupid limit rules in your country.

Which sort of 'limit rules' are you talking about? Enlighten me, please, what are the 'stupid limit rules' in the VTB League. You are definitely some five years behind the current state of affairs in the Russian club basketball.

Obviously, they don't want to develop/grow and move forward (ACB/Greek teams), they are just sitting in their teams and everything is fine, budgets are good, competition for "Russian slots" are low, ideal format.

Weird thing is that most Spaniards also play in Spain and even Greeks prefer Greece despite the fact that these days there is a huge dip in quality between Pao-Oly duo and everyone else. Russian clubs consistently prove themselves as one of the best in the continent and the league is mostly good if basketbal level is concerned and, if we omit CSKA's dominance, general competitiveness is also impressive. And here Russian players are living in their own country, with their families close to them, with their friends hanging around and no adaptation to foreign lifestyle and mentality is needed. Why the fuck Russian players should move to some Greek clubs? What we need is not Russians moving out to ACB but a proper league with 18 Russian teams in it where talented young guys can get a playing time they deserve in order to develop and grow better. And no, competition for the 'Russian slots' is not low (maybe it's conservative as once you get the spot and not suck totally, you are unlikely to lose it even if your competitors are clearly better than you since your background and experience work in your favour much more than they should). I know a lot of examples when very promising players were unable to get a place in VTB League team and were forced to play for the teams from Superleague. If most of the Russian clubs were not so bloody rich and traditionally dependant on the foreigners signed for big bucks, then many of these guys would find a niche for themselves. And guys like Alexander Zakharov or Artyom Klimenko would definitely play a lot in their early twenties for some ex-Yu solid team and then develop enough to go to some elite European league to play heavy minutes there. But here their talents got wasted because they are not good and fashionable enough for all the CSKAs, UNICSes and Khimkis out there.

See, your opinion is that you threw game against Latvia away, my opinion is that we were much stronger than you.

Well, I don't think that you will argue with the fact that this game had two very different halves. Latvia's win was well-deserved and they were stronger in the end but if we've played against some Romania during the whole game the way we've played against Latvia in the last quarter, we would also lose. Your team did nothing extraordinarily, it was our game to lose, which we just did in a typically Russian manner. You know, wins are different as a lot depends on your opponent current game. For example, we won against Serbia when they were moderately good but we were better and we also won against Turkey when we were really bad but Turks were even worse. And in the second half of our game with Latvia we were extremely bad and not only because of Latvia's effort.

We got 1 center in team,

You should not write this to Russian. Our second tallest player title is shared by Ivlev and Vorontsevich with all their 207 cm. Aside from Tima we have no player being able to play center in modern basketball. And Timofei plays less than 25 minutes per game.

It isn't choking, it's called Shved, that guy isn't stable, he can shoot 3pts, make assists but next game he will 10 turnovers. That's why he's playing in Khimki, not CSKA.

Choking and Shved are often synonymous, mind it But he plays in Khimki because he wants to be the absolute, indisputable 'go-to' guy for his team and not because he couldn't get playing time in CSKA. He knows that CSKA won't put him before some Teodosic or de Colo, so he stays in Khimki so far.