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Thread: End of the Yugoslavian Legacy?

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    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    Default End of the Yugoslavian Legacy?

    I didn't think about it until recently, but if Croatia or Slovenia don't qualify for next summer's Olympic games it will be the first time since the 1956 Melbourne (AUS) Olympics that Yugoslavia or former Yugoslav republics won't participate in a major international tournament. That to me is just as big a story as the US's recent failures in international competition. Of course, if either Slovenia or Croatia don't win an automatic Olympic birth at Eurobasket they still have a chance next summer to qualify for Beijing in the pre-Olympic tournament, which will keep the YUGO/FYR streak alive. I believe Slovenia has the best chance of the two to make it to China, and if they continue to play well at Eurobasket, I really don't believe that the streak is in any danger, but stranger things have happened. So we will see.

    I don't believe that basketball in the Balkans is dead by any means--the Serbs junior national team just won the U-19 WC, so the talent is still there--but after 51 years of competing at every major international tournament, it would be sad to see no former Yugoslav state represented at next year's Olympics.
    Last edited by Federoy; 09-10-2007 at 07:18 AM.

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    Senior Member zwbgr's Avatar
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    Talent is still here, attitude is huge problem. All 3 basketball forces in this area had to cope with lot of absentes. Croatia missing 4 key players, Slovenia and Serbia almost 10 key players each. And all this players aren't absent because of injures but because of "long season" (despite sitting on the bench all year long), "family reasons", "preparation for next season ala i-ll-be-free-agent" etc.
    Mentality is also problem. Both Croatia and Serbia lost to Israel not because lacking of talent but because they took game too easy. Slovenia is surprising in this segment and has won two tough game in last minutes. This is something new for us.
    Something must change in heads of players or maybe better in national associations. Then Serbia will again be treat for gold on every tournament and Croatia will be serious treat for every other team. I don't know for Slovenia. we play with worse team on paper in years and still we have 4-0 bargain so far. Attitude is here, i only hope absent players will come to this attitude in future. Then maybe we can reach a medal, who knows.

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    Senior Member c_fish's Avatar
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    I had this discussion with a Serb a couple of years ago and the conclusion was that today Serbia players seem to have their egos too much above the interest of the Serbian NT.Divac,Djordjevic etc despite being great players would "submit" to their coach in order to create a team rather than todays no team-just good assets.

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    Senior Member T.W.Is.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_fish
    I had this discussion with a Serb a couple of years ago and the conclusion was that today Serbia players seem to have their egos too much above the interest of the Serbian NT.Divac,Djordjevic etc despite being great players would "submit" to their coach in order to create a team rather than todays no team-just good assets.
    That's absolutely correct!Nevermind what I(and many others here) say about Serbia in the 90s and their ref assistance(which was beyond doubt), this team had great players who never caused problems 2 their NT.Today's most Serbian players r only as good as the socks of Divac, Djordjevic, Danilovic, Paspalj etc
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    Dead my ass. After we finish with the people in our organization we will be on top. See you in two years.Now we see who has ref assistance. Your team suck. Even they won European Championship. They are horrible. Its not big deaL to miss one Olympic games. Life goes on. We need young and energetic people to lead us to the top. I am expoecting. People like Divac,Djordjevic,Bodiroga, Vukoicic etc to take us there. In a two or thre years Greece will be nowhere.
    UZEO SI TROFEJ MACVANE MACVANE MACVANE!!!

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    Senior Member T.W.Is.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle
    Dead my ass. After we finish with the people in our organization we will be on top. See you in two years.Now we see who has ref assistance. Your team suck. Even they won European Championship. They are horrible. Its not big deaL to miss one Olympic games. Life goes on. We need young and energetic people to lead us to the top. I am expoecting. People like Divac,Djordjevic,Bodiroga, Vukoicic etc to take us there. In a two or thre years Greece will be nowhere.
    Just like u would destroy everybody this year
    Vidimose...
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    Default The talent is there

    it's just the commitment isn't anymore.
    but this is a wide-spread issue, as almost all of the teams in the EuroBasket had at least one major absentee due to some personal (as opposed to injury) excuse.

    I do believe that at least one of the teams will come to its senses and get to China one way or the other.

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    Senior Member reignman's Avatar
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    ahahhaah serbian friend you are funny... a single player KOSTAS KOUFOS almost single handed won your team.... i cant imagine having decent backups so let the preaching for another time lets say after 10-15 years.

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    Senior Member T.W.Is.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reignman
    ahahhaah serbian friend you are funny... a single player KOSTAS KOUFOS almost single handed won your team.... i cant imagine having decent backups so let the preaching for another time lets say after 10-15 years.
    ...or maybe when the grandson of Stankovic takes over FIBA again
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    Senior Member c_fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle
    In a two or thre years Greece will be nowhere.
    Man tell me what you're on... this shit must be really good Seriously, it is hard to have that many good guards (nevermind that most of them will be about 30 yrs old) as we have now in the future,but nowhere?I guess we'll be fighting for the same rankings with your NT in which the selfish hotheads and the players who will prefer clubbing in Mykonos to representing their country will deprive it from its true power

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    Senior Member jwfish6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reignman
    ahahhaah serbian friend you are funny... a single player KOSTAS KOUFOS almost single handed won your team.... i cant imagine having decent backups so let the preaching for another time lets say after 10-15 years.
    Almost, but he didnt did he? The Serbian subs were good, but MILAN MACVAN DID won your team, and was robbed of mvp. Where was Greece in the u20s? It's funny I was there and didn't hear 2 words about them all week long. Or what about the u19s? U16s? Even your best team couldn't beat Serbia's worst youth team of the summer. Please, what a joke. And your senior team did win, but barely, and it took them OT and a few nice refs to do it. Besides if you look at the senior team Serbia blew you out by 30 pts even if it was a friendly. Where's the room for Greeks to speak of the Yugoslavian decline? Hey man, let me tell you i would be REAL excited about the future of Greek basketball. It should be interesting. THIS GROUP SHOULD BE CALLED THE END OF THE GREEK LEGEND, THE BEGINING OF THE SERBIAN.
    Srbija - Quadruple Crown 2007


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    Senior Member jwfish6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Federoy

    I don't believe that basketball in the Balkans is dead by any means--the Serbs junior national team just won the U-21 WC, so the talent is still there--but after 51 years of competing at every major international tournament, it would be sad to see no former Yugoslav state represented at next year's Olympics.
    Well first it was the u20 EC, not the u21 WC. And that was just one of 4 championships, with one being the u19 over the Americans.
    Srbija - Quadruple Crown 2007


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    It just makes me sad to see serbians and greeks argue like that. If you keep arguing like that in fact, it will be the end of both.

    Greece will be here. Serbians will be here too, because they never left. We are a good team, and the new one is going to be good too. Serbia is for me the grandest talent pool in europe, so of course it is not the end here, not by any chance.

    Bitter comments from bitter minded fans, are irrelevant to basketball. Stop making fools out of yourselves.

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    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwfish6
    Well first it was the u20 EC, not the u21 WC. And that was just one of 4 championships, with one being the u19 over the Americans.
    Sorry, I was misinformed. U-19 Championships is what I meant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardusted
    It just makes me sad to see serbians and greeks argue like that. If you keep arguing like that in fact, it will be the end of both.

    Greece will be here. Serbians will be here too, because they never left. We are a good team, and the new one is going to be good too. Serbia is for me the grandest talent pool in europe, so of course it is not the end here, not by any chance.

    Bitter comments from bitter minded fans, are irrelevant to basketball. Stop making fools out of yourselves.
    Unfortunately you are completly right. I also hope that our basketball will be very soon be back on track, but not because of the decline of Greek basketball but because of the rise of Serbian. And as far as I am consirned my favourite teams are Greek, Lith, Croatian, Slovenian and if all of us shared the top 5 spots next 10 years I would be happiest. Go Eastern Europe!

    And even though I am not a fan of the French, German and especially Italian and Spanish teams I respect them and would never talk about them like some Serbs on this forum wrote about Greek national team.

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    This is not the end of anything.

    If anything, you can point to 2003 to identify the end of the Serbian dominance, but that dominance might come back down the road, although I don't see it happening anytime soon.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle
    In a two or thre years Greece will be nowhere.
    Really?
    When we speak for guards.
    In three years Diamantidis will be 30,Zisis 26 and Spanoulis 27.
    Also Verginis will have matured as a player and he will be ready.Who else?
    Giannakidis is also a good player and he will be 22 then.
    We have also Vasiliadis,Pelekanos and Pappas,Matalon from our u18 squad.
    I don't count on Milosevic.
    Forwards?
    Fotsis will be still 29,while Vasilopoulos,Perperoglou,Pridezis will be 27 and Manolopoulos,Sakota,Giannopoulos,Sigounas will be ready to play for us.
    Centers?
    Lazos will be still there,while Sofo,Bourousis,Koufos will be really dominant...
    There also players like Mavrokefalidis,Vogioukas and Bogris,Sarikopoulos two raw big men.

    If Calathes come,the things of course will be even better...

    Do you really think that Greece in three years will be nowhere?

    In the end...My friend,don't forget that Greeks are late bloomers...When Diamantidis and Papaloukas were 19-20,almost nobody waited from them to be among the best P.G in Europe.

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    Senior Member T.W.Is.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwfish6
    Well first it was the u20 EC, not the u21 WC. And that was just one of 4 championships, with one being the u19 over the Americans.
    U seem 2 have forgotten what is the real purpose of all junior teams.That is not 2 win medals(although this is a success too), but 2 create good players 4 the men's team.So maybe your u20, u19, u16 and u8 teams( ) can produce good players, but this hasn't happened yet.Until then, there is no point in bragging about the successes of junior teams.
    Your time is up my time is now,
    you can't see me my time is now...

    "Basketball is like the church. Many attend it, but few understand it"

    If u smell what the G.L. is cookin'...

    The Demon of Greek loby is here!

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    The real problem for me is the luck of good coaches, specialized in working with young kids here in Greece. Serbia is full of such coaches and this makes the difference. Although I always considered Kerameas as a decent coach for these ages, he made terrible mistakes during the final. I totally agree that we miss the point if we just want these kids to bring medals, what is more important is that they learn basketball the wright way. But from what I see nothing happens. No offensive plan at all for the U 18 team, "Give Koufos the ball" seemed to be our only strategy. Too bad because this team had some good players, like Giannopoulos or Matalon. Developing good coaches should also be a primary target but noone seems to bother.

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    what OSCAR_SCHMIDT said is true. Ex-Yu benefits from large ammount of quality coaches (even if anonimous) as well as it lost a lot by some top coaches spreading though europe. As (I think) BoducnostPG said in some other thread, biggest props for that goes to the legendary Aca Nikolić that made ex-Yu basketball, coaches and their mentality who they are today.
    In fact ex-Yu league in the end of 70ies, through 80ies untill the begining of 90ies was that strong that consequences are still visible today. It was the strongest league in europe, with hords of people gathering after their club winning the national championship of the most popular sport in the country. Heritage from that in terms of patient fans, tradition, love for the game, good coaches working for "a sandwich and a juice per month" in some suburban Belgrade bball gym, level of bball played among random guys on some street court is what is driving the area forward.
    It's not only the coaches, it's the tradition and culture as well.
    From my traveling experiences the sheer level of streetball played in Ljubljana, Split, Zadar or Novi Sad is totaly different bball than what you might experience in some western countries (didn't tasted bball in Lithuania, Greece - where I assume things are simmilar), after practices most of the guys go for some streetball along and you get anything from a "motorical handicaped person" that annoyingly hits just about any shot he throws, to some 15 y.o. talent, 45 y.o. ex. player that schools you to the extent you want to go under the bed, cry and stay there, 1st to 3rd divison players, a 35 y.o. guy that was selected into ex-Yu U18 along with Bodiroga to some 203, 110kg cousin of some known player, or once a year Nesterovič and his "hommies" getting back on their favourite court from youth... I think in most ex-Yu towns the situation is simmilar and you can always find a place where high quality bball is played... so if you want to improve you've got all the chance you want... while in most countries I've visited there aren't even many bball courts, let alone anyone playing on it- and IF there is someone, he must be wearing lakers#8 jersey...

    I can' forget one danish guy actually saying: "never played it before, but hey basketball is actually a nice sport" ... while me and our "constantly missing serbian mod J-will2" cut classes (khm... the correct expression was: we couldn't find the way to the classroom ) on student exchange, to shoot some hoops


    this tradition can't die nevermind the results of senior NT can weaken it.

    Bosnia suffered a lot from the war, bosnian serbians (Radmanović, Aškrabić, Ilić...) play for Serbia, hercegovina croats (Markota, Planinić, Prkačin, Barać...) for Croatia, while Slovenia always finds some youngsters their bball federation is not interested in to naturalise them (Begić, Preldžić, Rizvić, Čapin...), but they were a bball powerhouse in ex-Yu and will return there.
    FYROMacedonia also lost a lot from bball point of view, the situation in Serbia was terrible with sanctions and international isolation, in Croatia "the city of sportsmen" Split is in deep troubles while capital Zagreb lost their interest in bball... the only place bball actually improved since 91 is Slovenia.
    but overall bball is gettin up and no way this legacy will end because of some senior NTs results that can't last forever.
    As well as there might be no ex-Yu country in the next Olympics (although I do think one country between Croatia/Slovenia should qualify there) it might as well happen all 6 ex-republics getting qualified for the european championship in some period, meaning 6 out of 16 participating countries with the heritage of ex-Yu.

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