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Thread: Houston Rockets vs. The Chicago Bulls in the Jordan Era

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    Senior Member Lebron23's Avatar
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    Default Houston Rockets vs. The Chicago Bulls in the Jordan Era

    Houston Rockets vs. The Chicago Bulls in the Jordan Era

    1984 Houston 2 - 0 Chicago
    1985 Houston 2 - 0 Chicago
    1986 Houston 1 - 1 Chicago
    1987 Houston 2 - 0 Chicago
    1988 Houston 0 - 2 Chicago
    1989 Houston 1 - 1 Chicago
    1990 Houston 1 - 1 Chicago
    1991 Houston 2 - 0 Chicago
    1992 Houston 1 - 1 Chicago
    1993 Houston 2 - 0 Chicago
    1994 Houston 1 - 1 Chicago
    1995 Houston 1 - 1 Chicago
    1996 Houston 0 - 2 Chicago
    1997 Houston 1 - 1 Chicago
    1998 Houston 0 - 2 Chicago

    http://clutchfans.net/opponent_history.cfm?TeamID=24

    I think Hakeem Olajuwon and His Houston Rockets would definitely give Jordan and his Chicago Bulls a run for the NBA Championship. Hakeem was just a phenomenal player in the 1993-94, 1994-95 NBA Season, He dominated 3 of the best big men of all time in David Robinson, Patrick Ewing and Shaquille O'Neal.

    Olajuwon's signature became the fadeaway jump shot, delivered on the heels of a spin move. This sequence is called the "Dream Shake" (Hakeem's nickname was "The Dream") and was unstoppable. I cannot see any bigmen from the Bulls lineup that can contain this legendary patented move. Luc Longley or even Horace Grant will never stood a chance to stop Hakeem killing everyone in the lowposts.

    Rockets Dominating the NBA after the 1st Jordan Era

    Hakeem Olajuwon is the the first and only NBA player ever to win the regular season MVP, Defensive Player of the Year Award, and NBA Finals MVP in the same season.

    During the 1994-95 NBA Season, the Rockets acquired Clyde Drexler, Hakeem's former college teammate in Houston, and rolled to their second consecutive title, sweeping the Orlando Magic in the Finals. Olajuwon finished second in the league in scoring and blocked shots, eighth in rebounding, and ninth in steals, then averaged 33.0 points per game in the playoffs

    Even Michael Jordan, who had returned to the Chicago Bulls late that year, agreed that Hakeem had become the best player on Earth. One of the reason that the Bulls have a major revamp in their lineup after the 1994-95 NBA Season, due to the fact that Houston Rockets is probably one of the best team in that era.

    Chicago Bulls 2nd Dynasty 1996-98


    One year later the Bulls added forward Dennis Rodman after losing BJ Armstrong in the NBA Expansion Draft. Dennis Rodman, who had won the past four rebounding titles, and who had also been a 2 time NBA Defensive of the Year became the Chief Enforce and Best Rebounder of the Chicago Bulls.

    With a lineup of Harper, Jordan, Pippen, Rodman and Longley, and perhaps the league's best bench in Kerr, Kukoc, Wennington, Buechler, and guard Randy Brown the Bulls posted one of the best single-season improvements in league history and the best single-season record, moving from 47-35 to 72-10, which remains the best record in NBA history. Houston would fail to win another title or even return to the NBA Finals.

    So, Do you think that the Chicago Bulls and the Houston Rockets will be an interesting NBA finals? In your personal opinion who will probably win if both of this team face each other in the NBA Finals?

  2. #2

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    Great thread! I started watching basketball in 1993 so I got to see both. Hakeem is a top 5 center IMO. He had by far the best footwork of any big man, he is one of the best defenders ever, he is clutch and always stepped up in the playoffs which is why he won 2 titles, he was an excellent scorer and had a great jumper for a big man. Despite being only 6'10" he was the best big man in the NBA from 1986 to 1995.

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    Senior Member Lebron23's Avatar
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    I am using the Whatifsports.com Simulator.It simulates matchups of teams past and present, VERY accurate, and even has a boxscore so I'll tell you how the key players played.


    Game 1

    1995 Rockets at 1996 Bulls



    End of 1st: Bulls 27, Rockets 13

    Halftime: Bulls 58, Rockets 43

    End of 3rd: Bulls 90, Rockets 71


    FINAL SCORE: at Bulls 112, Rockets 103


    Player of the Game: M.Jordan 20/37 53pts 5reb


    The Chicago Bulls led by Michael Jordan dominate the Rockets on offense and take a 1-0 lead in the series. Michael Jordan had 53 pts to lead the Bulls the way. A Playoff High. Drexler was just dominated by Jordan, he had no stop for MJ. Drexler was also limited by MJ to 11points on 5/12 shooting. Pippen added 24pts 11reb and 7ast, so he also had a great game. Hakeem couldn't dominate like he wanted to and had 21pts and 16reb with 2blk. The Bulls as a team shot 51% and limited the Rockets to 44% shooting.


    Star Power:

    M.Jordan
    20/37 53pts 5reb 1st 3stl

    S.Pippen
    10/19 24pts 11reb 7ast 0stl

    D.Rodman
    2/4 4pts 14reb 5ast 1blk

    H.Olajuwon
    8/15 21pts 16reb 1ast 2blk

    C.Drexler
    5/12 11pts 3reb 2ast 3stl


    96 Bulls lead series 1-0




    Game 2


    1995 Rockets at 1996 Bulls[/U]




    End of 1st Quarter: Bulls 27, Rockets 27


    End of 2nd Quarter: Bulls 61, Rockets 51


    End of 3rd Quarter: Bulls 87, Rockets 71


    Final Score: at Bulls 105, Rockets 98


    Player of the Game: M.Jordan 11/23 30pts 7reb 5ast 3stl



    Jordan had another good game to put his Chicago Bulls up 2-0 for the series. The Bulls come home and win both games. After almost blowing a huge lead, Jordan finally finished the game off with some huge baskets late in the 4th Quarter. The Houston Rockets once again trailed most of the game and tried to make a run in the 4th Quarter. Scottie Pippen added 13/7/4 but struggled most of the game tonight. Hakeem Olajuwon was much more dominating tonight with 27pts 16reb, but only 1blk. Drexler was more agressive tonight but was shut down by Jordan again, going just 7/22. Though he finished with 19/11/6. The Bulls held the Rockets to 41% shooting while they themselves shot 46%. Game 3 will be held in Houston


    Star Power:


    M.Jordan

    11/23 30pts 7reb 5ast 3stl

    S.Pippen

    5/13 13pts 7reb 4ast 1stl

    D.Rodman

    3/6 7pts 14reb 1ast 2blk



    H.Olajuwon

    11/22 27pts 16reb 2ast 1blk

    C.Drexler

    7/22 19pts 11reb 6ast 0stl


    96 Bulls lead series 2-0[/COLOR]

    Game 3


    1996 Bulls at 1995 Rockets


    End of 1st Quarter: Bulls 24, Rockets 21


    End of 2nd Quarter: Bulls 50, Rockets 46


    End of 3rd Quarter: Bulls 86, Rockets 75




    Final Score: Bulls 113, at Rockets 108


    Player of the Game: M.Jordan 19/28 48pts 5reb 5ast



    The Chicago Bulls do it once again. Taking a 3-0 lead again, they have lead 3-0 once in all their series. Jordan led the way with an amazing 48pt night. After a close 1st half, Jordan's 18pt 3rd quarter led the Bulls to pull away from the Rockets. The Rockets cut the lead to 1 in the 4th quarter but Pippen got some clutch baskets and finished it off. Pippen had a triple double with 18pts 12reb and 11ast. Rodman pounded the Rockets inside with 16reb. Hakeem had a strong night with 36pts but had no help from Drexler once again. Drexler only had 17pts on 4/9 shooting. The Rocket's defense led Jordan and the Bulls to shoot 55%. Game 4 will also be in Houston as Houston trys to stop themeselves from being eliminated.


    Star Power:

    M.Jordan
    19/28 48pts 5reb 5ast 2stl

    S.Pippen
    8/15 18pts 12reb 11ast 0stl

    D.Rodman
    2/3 5pts 16reb 2ast 0blk



    H.Olajuwon
    13/23 36pts 8reb 4ast 4blk

    C.Drexler
    4/9 17pts 7reb 5ast 0stl


    96 Bulls Lead series 3-0


    Game 4

    1996 Bulls at 1995 Rockets




    End of 1st Quarter: Rockets 28, Bulls 23


    End of 2nd Quarter: Rockets 56, Bulls 51


    End of 3rd Quarter: Rockets 79, Bulls 69




    Final Score:
    at Rockets 100, Bulls 90



    Player of the Game: H.Olajuwon 13/19 38pts 11reb 6blk



    The Houston Rockets are not done yet. They too are champions and don't want to quit yet. Hakeem Olajuwon has his dominance back since coming back to Houston. He had another dominating game over the Bulls with 38pts. The Rockets also found a way to stop Jordan. Jordan only had 24pts on 9/22 shooting. Drexler though once again struggled. Pippen was solid with 19/9/7. The Bulls were held to 41% shooting by Houston's defense led by Hakeem.


    Star Power:

    M.Jordan
    9/22 24pts 6reb 2ast 2stl

    S.Pippen
    8/15 19pts 9reb 7ast 1stl

    D.Rodman
    2/3 4pts 15reb 4ast 0blk




    H.Olajuwon
    13/19 38pts 11reb 3ast 6blk

    C.Drexler
    4/14 15pts 13reb 3ast 1stl






    96 Bullls lead series 3-1



    Game 5

    96 Bulls at 95 Rockets


    End of 1st Quarter: Rockets 24, Bulls 23


    End of 2nd Quarter: Rockets 55, Bulls 50


    End of 3rd Quarter: Bulls 79, Rockets 78





    Final Score: Rockets 107, Bulls 102


    Player of the Game:
    H.Olajuwon 13/24 36pts 16reb 6blk



    The Houston Rockets win once again to force a Game 6. On a pretty close game at home, the Rockets finally pulled away at the end hanging on to their 3pt lead late in the game with defensive stops. The Bulls just couldn't score. Hakeem had his 3rd dominating game in a row. All have come at home. This might've been his best at 36/16/6. Drexler also probably had his best game going 8/17. He finished with 22/8/7. Not a great performance on the scoring end, but by far his best. Jordan had another great game, going 14/24 with 34pts and Pippen added 23pts. But it all wasn't enough. The Rocket's shot 50% from the field and now we will have a Game 6 in Chicago.



    Star Power:

    M.Jordan
    14/24 34pts 6reb 2ast 1stl

    S.Pippen
    9/16 23pts 7reb 5ast 1stl

    D.Rodman
    2/6 6pts 15reb 7ast 0blk


    H.Olajuwon
    13/24 36pts 16reb 3ast 6blk

    C.Drexler
    8/17 22pts 8reb 7ast 4stl




    96 Bulls lead series 3-2


    Game 6

    1995 Rockets at 1996 Bulls


    End of 1st Quarter: Bulls 23, Rockets 23


    End of 2nd Quarter: Bulls 51, Rockets 39


    End of 3rd Quarter: Bulls 79, Rockets 52




    Final Score: at Bulls 103, Rockets 73



    Player of the Game: S.Pippen 15pts 12reb 9ast


    The Chicago Bulls of 1996 are your 90s Tournament Champions! S.Pippen almost had a triple double to finish it off. Michael Jordan actually struggled today on 9/25 shooting but still finished with 26pts and 12reb. Dennis Rodman was huge on the glass with 22reb and 10 offensive rebounds. Drexler had another bad game going 5/13 and had only 11pts. Hakeem couldn't continue his home domination on the road and he went 7/16 on 17pts. The Rockets didn't put much of a fight today and got blown out. Shot only 36% because of the Bull's defense. But the rebounding was the big story, the Bulls outrebounded the Rockets 71 to 38. Seemed like the Rockets just didn't have the fight in them.


    Star Power:

    M.Jordan
    9/25 26pts 12reb 4ast 4stl

    S.Pippen
    5/12 15pts 12reb 9ast 2stl

    D.Rodman
    3/4 7pts 22reb 2ast 2blk



    H.Olajuwon
    7/16 17pts 9reb 2ast 6blk

    C.Drexler
    5/13 11pts 6reb 1ast 3stl





    96 Bulls win series 4-2

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    Senior Member Lebron23's Avatar
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    The 1996 Chicago Bulls are the best team in the 1990's

    Here are the stats for the Finals of both team's key players.


    Bulls:


    M.Jordan
    51.5 FG% 35.8ppg 6.8rpg 3.2apg 2.3spg

    S.Pippen
    50.0 FG% 18.7ppg 9.7rpg 7.2apg 0.8spg

    D.Rodman
    53.8 FG% 5.5ppg 16.0rpg 3.5apg 0.8bpg

    Rockets:

    H.Olajuwon
    54.6 FG% 29.2ppg 12.7rpg 2.5apg 4.2bpg

    C.Drexler
    37.9 FG% 15.8ppg 8.0rpg 4.0apg 1.5spg

    Based on this Finals MVP GOES TO: Michael Jordan



    Source: http://www.whatifsports.com/nba/default.asp#top

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    Very interesting. Can you do a simulation with the 2000 Lakers vs the 1996 Bulls.

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    1992 Bulls vs 1995 Rockets

    Game1: Bulls 104 Rockets 100

    Summary: Game was pretty closed for the most part but the Bulls pulled the win in the final 3 minute of the game, MJ hitting some 4 clutch FT to seal the win. MJ almost got a triple double here, what an amazing player.

    Player of the game: MJ 37pts, 9rebs, 9assits, 3 steals, 15/23FG, 7/7FT

    Game2: Bulls 108 Rockets 97

    Summary:
    Bulls got off to a great start outscoring the Rockets 23-16 in the first quarter and basically never trailled in the game. Hak with a brilliant effort 25pts and 13rebs but was not backed of by Drex who finished with only 12pts 4/11FG, which means MJ shut him down.

    Player of the game: 21pts, 9rebs, 4assits, 1blk, 2steals

    Game3: Bulls 109 Rockets 118

    Summary: 91-85 by the end of the 3rd quarter but Rockets outscored the Bulls 33-18 in the 4th quarter to seal the win. With 2:45 left in the game Rockets were ahead 108-105 but then Kenny Smith drains the shot just inside the 3pt line to shift the momentum to the Rockets and get the W.

    Player of the game: Hak 26pts, 16rebs, 4blks

    Game4: Bulls 114 Rockets 134

    Summary: MJ got in foul trouble early in the game and only played 29 minutes total. End of story

    Player of the game: Hak 29pts, 11rebs, 4blks

    Game5:
    Bulls 111 Rockts 110

    Summary:
    Classic game! with a dramatic finish. In the 4th quarter they were going back and forth. Sequence of events:

    1:29 Mario Elie hits a 3 pointer on a good pass by Hak. HOU 106 Bulls 104
    1:09 MJ connects on the bank shot from 8ft on a no-look pass by Cartwright and he's fouled. Game tied at 106
    1:09 MJ makes FT 1 on 1 giving the Bulls the lead 106-107
    0:42: MJ drills a pull-up jumper from the right side, assists by Paxson 106-109
    0:27: Hak knocks in the bank shot in the lane on a nice pass by Elie 108-109
    0:09: Hak knocks in the jumper from the baseline and go ahead 110-109
    0:00: MJ knocks in the fadeaway jumper at the buzzer

    Player of the game: MJ 30pts, 9assits, 14/21FG

    Game 6:
    Bulls 109 Rockets 102

    Summary: Bulls down 76-79 at the start of the 4th quarter. With 6:59 left on the clock they finally got the lead 91-89 thanks to Pip and they never loooked behind.

    Player of the game: Pip 20pts, 12rebs, 10 assits - triple double

    Bulls 4 Rockets 2

    Finals stats:
    MJ: 26.5ppg, 6.1rpg, 5.6apg, 1.5spg
    Pip: 21.8ppg, 9.0rpg, 5.0apg, 1.3bpg, 1.3spg
    Hak: 27.5ppg, 13.6rpg, 3.3apg, 4.6bpg, 1.6spg



    Finals MVP: Michael Jordan


    This is why the 92 Bulls were better than 96 Bulls

    92 MJ 30.1ppg, 6.4rpg, 6.1apg, 2.3spg, 0.9bpg, .519FG%
    96 MJ 30.4ppg, 6.6rpg, 4.3apg, 2.2spg, 0.5bpg, .495FG%

    92 Pip 21.0ppg, 7.7rpg, 7.0apg, 1.9spg, 1.1bpg, .506FG%
    96 Pip 19.4ppg, 6.4rpg, 5.9apg, 1.7spg, 0.7bpg, .463FG%

    92 Grant/Cart 22.2ppg, 15.0rpg, 4.0apg, 1.6spg, 1.8bpg, .519FG%
    96 Rod/Longle 14.6ppg, 20.0rpg, 4.4apg, 0.9spg, 1.8bpg, .481FG%

    The 92 squad was more resilient. They can pull win easily on the road while the 96 squad is better at home. Rodman is the "it" factor here for the 96 Bulls. Whenever I match up the 92 Bulls vs the 86 Boston, the Bulls have a hard time containing the triplets Bird, Mchale, Parish whereas the 96 Bulls always come out victorious against the 86 Boston. Howerver, the 96 Bulls have a hard time versus the 67 Sixers (Wilt Chamberlain) and the 92 Bulls matched up much better against that 67 Sixers tandem, and I think the reason why is coz the 67 Sixers are a very high scoring tandem and I always put Dennis Rodman on Wilt on that series to disrupt his game as much as possible and not allow Wilt grab that many rebounds.

    92 vs 96 they both have their strenghts and weakness, but combined they are the best team ever.

    F Rodman/Grant
    F Pippen/Kukoc
    G Jordan



    Source: http://www.whatifsports.com/nba/default.asp#top

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    Senior Member Lebron23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceCarter15
    Very interesting. Can you do a simulation with the 2000 Lakers vs the 1996 Bulls.

    Ok i will try my best to start simulating the ball game...


    1996 Seattle Supersonics vs. San Antonio Spurs 1999

    Game 1



    96 Sonics at 99 Spurs


    Final Score: Sonics 115, at Spurs 105


    Player of the Game: S.Kemp 9/15 22pts 13reb 3blk



    Sonics take a good high scoring game 1. Kemp led the Sonics with a good perormance. He had a good matchup with Duncan. Duncan finished with 10/20 27pts 7reb and 4blk. Robinson had 10pts 8reb and 3blk. Gary Payton was big for Seattle with 26pts on 10/19 shooting and 4ast. Sonics role players also did well. Sonics got to the line and went 29/33 from the FT line. That was the key.



    96 Sonics lead series 1-0


    Game 2

    96 Sonics at 99 Spurs



    Final Score: at Spurs 117, Sonics 105


    Player of the Game: T.Duncan 24pts 15re 3blk


    The Spurs also even up the series against the Sonics. Duncan led the way. Robinson added 17pts and 10reb. The Spurs outrebounded the Sonics and got the FT line. Sonic's were led by Payton's 21pts and 6ast. Kemp added 17pts and 10reb getting outplayed by Duncan.



    Series tied 1-1

    Game 3


    99 Spurs at 96 Sonics



    Final Score: at Sonics 119, Spurs 116


    Player of the Game: G.Payton 25pts 7reb 6ast


    Came down to the last Seconds. The Spurs had a chance to tie, but Robinson missed the shot with 10sec left and it gave the Sonics the win. The Spurs had no answer for Payton/Kemp. Kemp also had a good game with 26pts 13reb. Duncan was solid tonight at 26pts and 17reb. Robinson also had a good game with 25pts and 8reb. Sonics controlled the rebounds tonight.


    96 Sonics lead series 2-1


    Game 4


    99 Spurs at 96 Sonics


    Final Score: at Sonics 100, Spurs 83



    Player of the Game: S.Kemp 11pts 16reb 3blk 2stl



    The Sonics dominated the Spurs tonight. The Spurs had no answer for the Sonic's tough defense. Payton added 16/10 with Kemp and they had a good spread out scoring. Duncan was great again with 21/19 and Robinson was solid at 18/12 but it wasn't enough. The Spurs head home facing elimination threats


    96 Sonics lead series 3-1


    Game 5


    96 Sonics at 99 Spurs


    Final Score: at Spurs 111, Sonics 92


    Player of the Game: T.Duncan 31pts 17reb 5blk



    Duncan continues his domination over the Sonics and keeps the Spurs alive. The Spurs were good right from the beggining and won this one. Robinson added 13/10. Kemp posted a double double with 20/10, but has been outplayed by Duncan these series. Payton had 22/8. Sonics were held to 42%.



    96 Sonics lead series 3-2



    Game 6

    99 Spurs at 96 Sonics


    Final Score: at Sonics 115, Spurs 105



    Player of the Game: S.Kemp 30pts 23reb 2blk



    With the game close all the way up to the middle of the 4th, the Sonics finally pulled away. Kemp had a very dominating game. By far his best performance of the series dominating Duncan. Duncan might still have won the series matchup, but this was Kemp's day. Duncan finished with 19/8 and Robinson had 12/10. Payton added 21pts 7reb and 4ast, Sonics went to the line 44 times compared to the 25 of the Spurs.



    96 Sonics win series 4-2, 1996 Seattle Supersonics just defeated the 1999 NBA Champions.


    Source:www.Whatifsports.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebron23 View Post
    Ok i will try my best to start simulating the ball game...


    1996 Seattle Supersonics vs. San Antonio Spurs 1999

    Game 1



    96 Sonics at 99 Spurs


    Final Score: Sonics 115, at Spurs 105


    Player of the Game: S.Kemp 9/15 22pts 13reb 3blk



    Sonics take a good high scoring game 1. Kemp led the Sonics with a good perormance. He had a good matchup with Duncan. Duncan finished with 10/20 27pts 7reb and 4blk. Robinson had 10pts 8reb and 3blk. Gary Payton was big for Seattle with 26pts on 10/19 shooting and 4ast. Sonics role players also did well. Sonics got to the line and went 29/33 from the FT line. That was the key.



    96 Sonics lead series 1-0


    Game 2

    96 Sonics at 99 Spurs



    Final Score: at Spurs 117, Sonics 105


    Player of the Game: T.Duncan 24pts 15re 3blk


    The Spurs also even up the series against the Sonics. Duncan led the way. Robinson added 17pts and 10reb. The Spurs outrebounded the Sonics and got the FT line. Sonic's were led by Payton's 21pts and 6ast. Kemp added 17pts and 10reb getting outplayed by Duncan.



    Series tied 1-1

    Game 3


    99 Spurs at 96 Sonics



    Final Score: at Sonics 119, Spurs 116


    Player of the Game: G.Payton 25pts 7reb 6ast


    Came down to the last Seconds. The Spurs had a chance to tie, but Robinson missed the shot with 10sec left and it gave the Sonics the win. The Spurs had no answer for Payton/Kemp. Kemp also had a good game with 26pts 13reb. Duncan was solid tonight at 26pts and 17reb. Robinson also had a good game with 25pts and 8reb. Sonics controlled the rebounds tonight.


    96 Sonics lead series 2-1


    Game 4


    99 Spurs at 96 Sonics


    Final Score: at Sonics 100, Spurs 83



    Player of the Game: S.Kemp 11pts 16reb 3blk 2stl



    The Sonics dominated the Spurs tonight. The Spurs had no answer for the Sonic's tough defense. Payton added 16/10 with Kemp and they had a good spread out scoring. Duncan was great again with 21/19 and Robinson was solid at 18/12 but it wasn't enough. The Spurs head home facing elimination threats


    96 Sonics lead series 3-1


    Game 5


    96 Sonics at 99 Spurs


    Final Score: at Spurs 111, Sonics 92


    Player of the Game: T.Duncan 31pts 17reb 5blk



    Duncan continues his domination over the Sonics and keeps the Spurs alive. The Spurs were good right from the beggining and won this one. Robinson added 13/10. Kemp posted a double double with 20/10, but has been outplayed by Duncan these series. Payton had 22/8. Sonics were held to 42%.



    96 Sonics lead series 3-2



    Game 6

    99 Spurs at 96 Sonics


    Final Score: at Sonics 115, Spurs 105



    Player of the Game: S.Kemp 30pts 23reb 2blk



    With the game close all the way up to the middle of the 4th, the Sonics finally pulled away. Kemp had a very dominating game. By far his best performance of the series dominating Duncan. Duncan might still have won the series matchup, but this was Kemp's day. Duncan finished with 19/8 and Robinson had 12/10. Payton added 21pts 7reb and 4ast, Sonics went to the line 44 times compared to the 25 of the Spurs.



    96 Sonics win series 4-2, 1996 Seattle Supersonics just defeated the 1999 NBA Champions.


    Source:www.Whatifsports.com
    I recently covered about the houston rockets vs the chicago bulls in the jordan match in my blog because the match was historic. But that was a match truly remembering in. Old match but worth remembering

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