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Thread: Greek Finals 2017: Olympiakos-Panathinaikos

  1. #21
    Senior Member Tevfik1907's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DainBramaged View Post
    Efes played good basketball in the F4
    Efes never played in F4 since 2001, they played only in the playoffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by DainBramaged View Post
    and Olympiacos had a couple of bad games. Olympiacos had a very good regular season (they lost 3-4 easy games at the end so that they could rest), they came back from a 1-2 against Efes and they beat CSKA right after. I think people are eager to forget when there is no trophie evolved, saying that it was a matter of luck, and that's unfair.
    Oly and Pana have the same winning record in the regular EL season. 19-11

    Pana just seemed bad in the playoffs because they played with a much better team and Oly seemed better because they played with a bad Efes. The only surprise was the CSKA game and it was a very bad day for CSKA. If it was a best of 5 series, I am pretty sure CSKA would win it. Final Fours aren't fair always.
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  2. #22
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DainBramaged View Post
    Efes played good basketball in the F4 and Olympiacos had a couple of bad games. Olympiacos had a very good regular season (they lost 3-4 easy games at the end so that they could rest), they came back from a 1-2 against Efes and they beat CSKA right after. I think people are eager to forget when there is no trophie evolved, saying that it was a matter of luck, and that's unfair.
    Olympiakos had a bad ending, otherwise I think they had a great season. Don't bother with a certain delusional person here who likes to distort reality with beliefs/emotions.
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    Senior Member Tevfik1907's Avatar
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    Olympiacos had a great season because they beat Efes with 3-2 ? Even BJK did better. I guess that would satisfy Efes fans like you but as you know Efes couldn't even make it to the Turkish finals right now, they are terrible as a team and as a club. There is no ''delusion'' here, moderators should be more careful with the words that they are choosing.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
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    Olympiakos reached the EL final with a budget similar to Brose's and missing 2 starters in the most important part of the season. Everything else doesn't make sense^^.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tevfik1907 View Post
    Efes never played in F4 since 2001, they played only in the playoffs.



    Oly and Pana have the same winning record in the regular EL season. 19-11

    Pana just seemed bad in the playoffs because they played with a much better team and Oly seemed better because they played with a bad Efes. The only surprise was the CSKA game and it was a very bad day for CSKA. If it was a best of 5 series, I am pretty sure CSKA would win it. Final Fours aren't fair always.
    Play-offs is what I meant, thanks for the correction.
    Oly didn't try much at the last games of the regular season because they had secured the home court advantage, that's the only reason they had the same record with Pana. I didn't say Oly is a better team because they made it to the F4, I'm talking about overall performance. Pana is fortunate to win the Greek league final playing bad basketball, as in a lot of games this year, unlike Oly who had a great season with bad results at the end (as Levenspiel said too).

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    Senior Member Tevfik1907's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DainBramaged View Post
    Play-offs is what I meant, thanks for the correction.
    Oly didn't try much at the last games of the regular season because they had secured the home court advantage, that's the only reason they had the same record with Pana.
    That doesn't mean Oly played those games for losing it. Pana was successful enough to secure the 4th place, it was because our missing players such as Bogdan, but still it's a success.

    Quote Originally Posted by DainBramaged View Post
    I didn't say Oly is a better team because they made it to the F4, I'm talking about overall performance. Pana is fortunate to win the Greek league final playing bad basketball, as in a lot of games this year, unlike Oly who had a great season with bad results at the end (as Levenspiel said too).
    I am pretty sure you've no idea what you are talking about because Pana played much better than Oly in the entire Greek Finals, they should've won the first and even the third game. They were already playing better than Oly and then Oly ended up by beaten by +15. Pana deserved to be the champion of Greece.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tevfik1907 View Post
    That doesn't mean Oly played those games for losing it. Pana was successful enough to secure the 4th place, it was because our missing players such as Bogdan, but still it's a success.
    You can't make conclusions from indifferent games, is all I'm saying. While it mattered, Oly was 4 wins ahead of Pana.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tevfik1907 View Post
    I am pretty sure you've no idea what you are talking about because Pana played much better than Oly in the entire Greek Finals, they should've won the first and even the third game. They were already playing better than Oly and then Oly ended up by beaten by +15. Pana deserved to be the champion of Greece.
    Yes they did play better in the finals and they deserved to be champions. You missed my point.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    It seems to me that two factors culminated to the victory of Pao. The first one is the fact that Pao was at its best during the play offs. The second reason is that Olympiacos was worn off. They lacked energy.

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  9. #29
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    It seems to me that two factors culminated to the victory of Pao. The first one is the fact that Pao was at its best during the play offs. The second reason is that Olympiacos was worn off. They lacked energy.

    Congrats to Pao!!
    Oly played a total of 2 games more than PAO. Bow-wow.

    The truth is that Pascual beat Sferopoulos comprehensively with big wins ( 2 in SEF) 5-4 the record between them.

    He outcoached him in every single game Cup, League and Finals series. He annihilated the Spanoulis- Printezis partnership and made them both look like street players. I'm quite sure Xavi studied Fener's game in the final where both Printezis and Spanoulis were made to look ordinary. He played a trick playing 3 forwards Singleton, Gist and Gabriel which was effective because they could all mark Spanoulis and destroy both his driving to the basket but also his assists since he constantly had taller and more athletic players in front of him. I even noticed that when our guards were marking him they were basically shutting down his right dribble and would encourage him to go left when our forwards would wait for him. The guard (either Pappas, Calathes or James would play "ball defence" and leave the aerial defence for the forwards. No Spanoulis. No party. Simple as that.

    Spanoulis last 3 games in the series:

    3/19 fg, 17 assists, 11 t.o's

    Calathes last 3 games:

    15/29 fg 10 assists, 4 t.o's

    Both Calathes and Bourousis raised there games and played at their best. Especially in the last 2 games. Bourousis was used perfectly. Whenever he was on the court he would be fed the ball and would either post Oly centres or split a pass to the weak -side for a free 3-p shot for Pappas, James, Rivers and Calathes who shot well for 3.

    I'm actually disappointed with the team because both games 4 and 5 were 30 point games. We'd lose our concentration and do silly things. Maybe it's better this way because Sferopoulos who is very average and one- dimensional would have been sacked.
    Last edited by EverGreen; 06-12-2017 at 10:33 PM.
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    Is it just me or is there something inherently wrong with a system that crowns its main champion first and then goes back and crowns individual league champions ? It would be like having the NCAA tournament and subsequent final four decided and then going back and having the Acc or Big East tournaments. It doesn't make sense to me because of the mental state of the teams, and often even the makeup of the teams is different. For example 1996 Panathinaikos wins the European title and then has to somehow match the intensity, purpose and motivation to play a playoff series to determine the Greek Champion ? That seems backwards to me. I don't know if logistically it can be altered but I think it would make more sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    Oly played a total of 2 games more than PAO. Bow-wow.
    4, actually

  12. #32
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DainBramaged View Post
    4, actually
    2 because Pao played in the Greek Cup final and lost 1 game to AEK in the play offs thus winning 3-1 whilst Oly won their series 3-0.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
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  13. #33
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Is it just me or is there something inherently wrong with a system that crowns its main champion first and then goes back and crowns individual league champions ? It would be like having the NCAA tournament and subsequent final four decided and then going back and having the Acc or Big East tournaments. It doesn't make sense to me because of the mental state of the teams, and often even the makeup of the teams is different. For example 1996 Panathinaikos wins the European title and then has to somehow match the intensity, purpose and motivation to play a playoff series to determine the Greek Champion ? That seems backwards to me. I don't know if logistically it can be altered but I think it would make more sense.
    It's been like this forever and in every league.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

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    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
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    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    It's been like this forever and in every league.
    Yeah I understand that but it doesn't make it a logical system just because it has always been that way. I think tinkering with the calendars and somehow having the league season wrap up lets say around the time that the regular season in the Euroleague ends and just before their playoffs would make more sense to me if possible.

  15. #35
    Senior Member Tevfik1907's Avatar
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    Which is why I believe that the domestic playoffs shouldn't be played after European cups. You can increase the number of the Euroleague games and Euro cup, and with canceling of the domestic playoffs you would play less games and they wouldn't lose any interest in domestic leagues after the Europe final four and playoffs.

    I've to agree with that, in tough leagues it could be tricky, that wouldn't be a problem for Maccabi since Israel league doesn't have any other team that can oppose them, but VTB league, but Greek finals, Spain league playoffs, and Turkish league playoffs are tough. After playing the Final Four, teams are losing their motivation, perhaps that's what happened to Olympiacos and Real Madrid (they lost one game to Valencia in their own home) who knows. We also lost to Karsiyaka in the 2015 playoffs after playing the Final Four 2015.
    Last edited by Tevfik1907; 06-13-2017 at 12:23 PM.
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  16. #36
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    If no play offs were to happen. There would be simply no TV revenue for PAO and Oly. Nova who have PAO's right and OTE TV which have Oly's would never pay what they pay without a play off series.

    They both finished with a 25-1 record this year losing only to each other. Unfortunately gone are the days Aris, AEK, PAOK, Panionios and Iraklis were strong and both Oly and PAO would lose away and even at home sometimes.

    Lets face it, Greek basketball would become less interesting without your usual 8-10 games between PAO and Oly. Games between Aris-PAOK-AEK are interesting but lets face it, they are miles away from the standard of PAO and Oly to even consider threatening them.
    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

  17. #37
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
    Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

    Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

    Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

    When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

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