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Thread: FIBA Asia Pacific World Cup Qualifiers

  1. #11721
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
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    Results not just Gilas, but globally say otherwise
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  2. #11722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonifacio View Post
    You may have a Lebron in your team and still have difficulties winning against other teams which are more prepared and played together for a longer time......I beg to differ that talent is the single most important factor...other criteria such as good coaching, preparation are equally important....that is why I am not sure on whether the Guiao team for 4th and 5th Qualifiers can beat Ateneo...for sure, the Guiao team players are a lot more talented...but the coaching and the preparation that Ateneo did can beat the Guiao team.....the Ateneo team had a good fight also against Korea which is the same team that beat Guaio's Asian Games team......Actually, I bet that it would also be a good game to see Ateneo vs the Guiao's Asian Games team (i.e. with Clarkson, CS and Pringle together).
    Agree. Talent-wise, the Gilas 2018 Asian Games with Clarkson in tow was more talented individually than either china & korea (Remember we also had CS & Pringle playing at the same time). But we all know what happened. Korea & china were simply more prepared & more cohesive than Gilas & those were the deciding factors. Gilas' edge in individual skills was simply negated.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

  3. #11723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonifacio View Post
    I still dont believe that Guiao and Blatche can work together....SBP will have to choose between Guiao or Blatche......question is whether SBP would allow themselves to be fooled again by Guiao.......with all these press statements of Guaio..as if he would rather look at other options than look at Blatche...that is like a slap on the face of Blatche.......Romeo is being quiet but Im sure he got hurt with his non selection in the 20-man pool by Guiao.
    I don't know who Guiao's boss is..seems like we were sold to the devil or something.
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  4. #11724
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Results not just Gilas, but globally say otherwise
    It will be foolish to rely solely on talent.....good preparation, good coach would all be needed.

  5. #11725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonifacio View Post
    It will be foolish to rely solely on talent.....good preparation, good coach would all be needed.
    Of course and no one is saying that, top 1-2 player talent is still the main difference normally (not always) that determines results, the evidence strongly suggest so.
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  6. #11726
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Agree. Talent-wise, the Gilas 2018 Asian Games with Clarkson in tow was more talented individually than either china & korea (Remember we also had CS & Pringle playing at the same time). But we all know what happened. Korea & china were simply more prepared & more cohesive than Gilas & those were the deciding factors. Gilas' edge in individual skills was simply negated.
    Yes the Gilas backcourt of Pringle and Clarkson was obviously more talented than both Korea and China, But our team was inferior in the front line. And of course less cohesive. It still doesn't debunk the theory that with the elite backcourt talent it made us at least compete despite the glaring disadvantage in front line talent and cohesiveness. Without those 2, we would be Gilas 5th window vs Iran level and maybe even worse due to less prep time. It is still talent of the 2 that brought us to that competitive level despite being at a lower level to win vs China and Korea. Tambak yun without the 2
    Last edited by analyzed; Today at 09:45 AM.
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  7. #11727
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    Para malinaw
    1 full month Gilas without NBA telent (JC or Batche) we can compete vs 2nd tier Asian teams (Kazakhstan, Qatar, Iran w/o top stars
    1 full month prep with NBA telent we are competitive vs elite top tier Asia,, China, Korea, Iran with stars.
    It's that simple
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  8. #11728
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Yes the Gilas backcourt of Pringle and Clarkson was obviously more talented than both Korea and China, But our team was inferior in the front line. And of course less cohesive. It still doesn't debunk the theory that with the elite backcourt talent it made us at least compete despite the glaring disadvantage in front line talent and cohesiveness. Without those 2, we would be Gilas 5th window vs Iran level and maybe even worse due to less prep time. It is still talent of the 2 that brought us to that competitive level despite being at a lower level to win vs China and Korea. Tambak yun without the 2
    Gilas 1 had no Clarkson nor Pringle but they reached the same ranking (5th) with more stiff competition as Lebanon and Jordan were in those games......They didnt have the star quality talent but they had preparation......in essence, there are two ways to reach the 5th ranking in Asian games..you can either have star quality talent or you can have preparation..both are important then.......tambak yun Gilas 1 if they didnt have preparation in the same way na tambak yun Gilas without Clarkson and Pringle.

    What's the difference between Gilas 5th Window (w/ Pringle who made 38 points..wow) and Kazakhstan (without any really known star talent)?...I think it's because Kazakhstan prepared more and studied Gilas better (natuto na sila from their recent experience)...so in this case, preparation trumps talent.

    erratum: Gilas 1 actually finished 4th which is higher than the Clarkson/Pringle/Standhardinger led Gilas which ranked only 5th

    p.s When Gilas 1 competed in the Asian Games, Iran top players such as Hadadi were at their peak, China had its top players which is not the case when the Clarkson Lead Gilas played against China
    Last edited by Bonifacio; Today at 10:14 AM.

  9. #11729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex07 View Post
    I don't know who Guiao's boss is..seems like we were sold to the devil or something.
    Maybe a secret aggrement to the smc camp that they will borrow their players to the national team, in exchange of non-inclusion of the smc players that they don't like.. ex: romeo (he has some altercation w/ most of the smc players just like tenorio, santos, lassiter, lee.. all of these players are now part of guiao's team).. and maybe abueva and pogoy, if they are finish serving suspensions.. but i dont know why guiao don't like blatche? Is there any altercation between them or blatche and most of the smc players? We don't know!!! When blatche point out that there is something political agenda right now in this pool, i think blatche was right!!! Is smc and chua destroying our team backwards? I think you are right friend!! It will be blatche, romeo vs guiao, smc + chua.. what will sbp do right now?

  10. #11730
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    Here's my two cents on talent vs preparation. No one is saying that preparation and cohesion aren't important to be competitive...in a tournament. If we want to be competitive as a basketball nation in the long term, we better start looking at the quality of talent we produce locally.

    To illustrate my point, it's quite easy for us to dominate in the Southeast Asian level because the quality of talent we produce is better compared to our neighbors who aren't really into basketball. If we want to bridge the gap between us and the stronger nations, we have to start developing talent that at least approximates the quality that they produce. Australia has a deep pool of players playing in D1 programs while we can't even produce 1 successful homegrown D1 player. Their youth team standouts move on to play their college careers in the US while ours just play in our local leagues. Their players then either try their luck in the nba, play overseas in Europe or the NBL. Ours just go to the PBA after playing in the uaap or local ncaa. The experience of playing at a much higher level widens the gap in talent exponentially.

    Even if we were to have a Gilas 1/NCC type of NT but don't address the grassroots, our gap with them will remain. Maybe we can get an upset every now and then with that type of setup but the gap will just get wider. Add the fact that having to look for a sponsor who will be willing to shell out cash just to keep players from joining the PBA isn't really sustainable.
    Last edited by c_d; Today at 11:59 AM.

  11. #11731
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert0326 View Post
    Maybe a secret aggrement to the smc camp that they will borrow their players to the national team, in exchange of non-inclusion of the smc players that they don't like.. ex: romeo (he has some altercation w/ most of the smc players just like tenorio, santos, lassiter, lee.. all of these players are now part of guiao's team).. and maybe abueva and pogoy, if they are finish serving suspensions.. but i dont know why guiao don't like blatche? Is there any altercation between them or blatche and most of the smc players? We don't know!!! When blatche point out that there is something political agenda right now in this pool, i think blatche was right!!! Is smc and chua destroying our team backwards? I think you are right friend!! It will be blatche, romeo vs guiao, smc + chua.. what will sbp do right now?
    Tab said Andray is hard to manage so who knows. Alam mo na kung sino lang boss kapag si Yeng ang coach.

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  12. #11732
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    Both are important chemistry and talent.

    But for me chemistry( including experience) defeats talent unless talent is overwhelming. For example

    Chemistry vs Talent
    Dallas vs Heat
    Spurs vs Heat
    TNT vs Petron
    Sixers vs Bucks vs Toronto in 2001
    Detroit vs Lakers in 2004
    Ateneo vs Jones Cup opponents 2018
    Gilas vs World Cup opponents 2014

    Ofcourse there are exceptions like GS vs Cavs in 2016 but most of the time chemistry beats talent unless talent is overwhelming

  13. #11733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonifacio View Post
    I think its one talented coach away rather than just one young big away.....it definitely has talent and has the bigs to match the bigs of other teams....in the 5th qualifier, people were saying that we dont need to get a big because we have fajardo, slaughter and Aguilar with Standhardinger.
    And look how that turned out for us. The level of play of our bigs was exposed. This has been argued in this forum to infinity and beyond. We don't really produce bigs who are competitive internationally. Junmar lost the momentum he had from the Australia brawlgame. He looked like a bumbling, jittery amateur vs. Iran. Japeth is Japeth and will always be Japeth. We know his limitations. The real bummer is no matter how many international games they've played, they still come out as nervous as rookies.

    Let's give the next generation bigs - Kai, Edu, the training & exposure they deserve.
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  14. #11734
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootingbwakaw View Post
    And look how that turned out for us. The level of play of our bigs was exposed. This has been argued in this forum to infinity and beyond. We don't really produce bigs who are competitive internationally. Junmar lost the momentum he had from the Australia brawlgame. He looked like a bumbling, jittery amateur vs. Iran. Japeth is Japeth and will always be Japeth. We know his limitations. The real bummer is no matter how many international games they've played, they still come out as nervous as rookies.

    Let's give the next generation bigs - Kai, Edu, the training & exposure they deserve.
    What do you expect? They are used to Blatche being the focus in defense and offense. Suddenly not only do they need to score with D focused on them, they have to be the center of defense against burly Iranians amd have to rim protect against their guards aswell as box out to get the defensive board. Playing with Blatche sheltered them. It is a big adjustment in responsibility for our bigs to play without Blatche. For all JFs bumbling they were close to winning until Marcio fouled out.

    Without Blatche we are a 2nd tier talent after the top 4. With our diffrent calls, limited exposure to bigger players is not surprising our best is ill equipped to fight internationally. Without Blatche, being the 5th best team in Asia zone for this current batch is a proud goal to strive for IMO.

  15. #11735
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootingbwakaw View Post
    And look how that turned out for us. The level of play of our bigs was exposed. This has been argued in this forum to infinity and beyond. We don't really produce bigs who are competitive internationally. Junmar lost the momentum he had from the Australia brawlgame. He looked like a bumbling, jittery amateur vs. Iran. Japeth is Japeth and will always be Japeth. We know his limitations. The real bummer is no matter how many international games they've played, they still come out as nervous as rookies.

    Let's give the next generation bigs - Kai, Edu, the training & exposure they deserve.
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  16. #11736
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert0326 View Post
    Maybe a secret aggrement to the smc camp that they will borrow their players to the national team, in exchange of non-inclusion of the smc players that they don't like.. ex: romeo (he has some altercation w/ most of the smc players just like tenorio, santos, lassiter, lee.. all of these players are now part of guiao's team).. and maybe abueva and pogoy, if they are finish serving suspensions.. but i dont know why guiao don't like blatche? Is there any altercation between them or blatche and most of the smc players? We don't know!!! When blatche point out that there is something political agenda right now in this pool, i think blatche was right!!! Is smc and chua destroying our team backwards? I think you are right friend!! It will be blatche, romeo vs guiao, smc + chua.. what will sbp do right now?
    Me bayad daw kasi si blatche haha.

  17. #11737
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Para malinaw
    1 full month Gilas without NBA telent (JC or Batche) we can compete vs 2nd tier Asian teams (Kazakhstan, Qatar, Iran w/o top stars
    1 full month prep with NBA telent we are competitive vs elite top tier Asia,, China, Korea, Iran with stars.
    It's that simple

    it's cyclical.

    The current product on the court is the remnant of Chot Reyes' Puso team that was formed in 2012 and peaked at the 2014 Worlds. PHL got lucky it got Tab to steer the 2015 FIBA Asia team with fat Blatche, and grandpas Dondon and Asi. The cracks started to show in the 2017 FIBA Asia Cup, even after PHL beat an under transition China.

    Now, this PUSO team is in its last breath, gone are its hearts and souls (RDO, Ping and Jimmy), their replacements are not good enough. heck even the replacement coach is incompetent. SMC's entry is too little too late, and besides, PHL only needed JMF and JA from that conglomerate if you looked at it closely. IMHO Lassiter is just a maybe and Scottie is debatable. Tenorio is a has been after 2014 and Slaughter is a never mind.

    Castro and Norwood are the only ones holding this team together.

    PHL is not Korea where there's a system in-grained since birth. Nor China with it unlimited pool. PHL will always be a guard oriented team, which relies on foreign-born / bred Filipinos to hide its weaknesses (bigs and scoring from the wings). it was good since 2012, now i think its ending. That's why i posted before that the PHL needes a reboot and start again from scratch with a mixture of the current batch of college kids + the GGG unicorns.

  18. #11738
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Para malinaw
    1 full month Gilas without NBA telent (JC or Batche) we can compete vs 2nd tier Asian teams (Kazakhstan, Qatar, Iran w/o top stars
    1 full month prep with NBA telent we are competitive vs elite top tier Asia,, China, Korea, Iran with stars.
    It's that simple
    Not really true......Gilas 2 (with a semi-limping Douhit and no Blatche but with full month prep) - we were able to compete vs elite top tier Asia and ranked 2nd just behind Iran.

    Prepared Gilas 1 (amateurs with an ex NBA and journeyan Douhit) - ranked 4th and beat Iran with its top stars i.e Haddadi et al

    Gilas with NBA talent (JC) and two naturalised players (CS and Pringle) - ranked 5th only in a competition without Lebanon, Jordan, and China without its top stars.

    From the above, good preparation seems to trump talent

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