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Thread: Lithuanians in Euroleague

  1. #141
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    My god, I think we finally got it. Jokubaitis marching towards elite without any slumps, straight to the point. He has been perfect for Barsa in the preseason. 20 years gap between the last elite guard Macijauskas (1980) and upcoming one Jokubaitis (2000)...

    11pts, 5as, 18eff in 15min:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKnD...taT%C3%A9cnica


    Thats what real tallents looks like .Improving with giants steps and by 22 old age becoming seriuos euroleague players. By age of 24 can be main desicion maker in winning nt.

    Even i agree Jokubaitis is real deal tallent. Thats how generational tallents looks.

    Fans not need wait till ale *tallent in theory* turns 24-25 to show something in real level.

    Generational ones shows that around 20 on highest levels,but need 2-3 years experience to get his shit together to be main teams player.

    1990 Marciulionis 2000 Jasikevicius 2010 Kalnietis

    its getting more and more clear who will be main desicion maker in 2020 decade for LTU NT.

  2. #142

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    Yeah. Just one moment. If Kalnietis was generational talent for us, then he was the one of very much different generation than we had in 90's and 00's when we were a force. With all respect to Mantas he shouldn't be mentioned among names like Marciulionis, Jasikevicius. It's completely different levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  3. #143

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    Jokubaitis plays the right way, reads the game impressively. I really like where he already stands level wise as still 20yo.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2k6...taT%C3%A9cnica
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  4. #144

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    Barca beats Valencia. Jokubaitis delivers again. He continue to prove he can play for Barsa. I think he will actually have a consistent role in EL, maybe with some slump during the season. The way I see it, he may already be better playmaker than Laprovittola if not a better player overall. Calathes is off course elite PG, but knowing his struggle with shooting I think Jokubaitis will steal the show in some games as well. I like how instantly Spanish put his highlights after the game. He dropped 10pts (1/1, 2/2, 2/2), 3as in 16min. IDK, maybe I'm too optimistic, but it seems Jokubaitis is ready for 15mpg in EL for Barsa consistently.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktZt...taT%C3%A9cnica
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  5. #145

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    Watched Baskonia- Bilboa.

    Masiulis was completely lost, totally. Off course, he's rookie and so on, but it will be pretty tough for him under uptempo ACB basketball, IMO. I'm starting to seriously doubt he'll ever be true EL material. R. Giedraitis was meh, missed many shots, played bad D. IMO, he's the most overrated Lithuanian today. He is treated is boderline elite, but he's super streaky and unreliable. Baskonia is super fit for him and he will have big games, but in some games he's so random and in the NT he's pretty much no-body. Sedekerskis length and athleticism was felt, he made some impressive defensive stops, but also couple of defensive mistakes and he missed some bunnies. He needs to think how to expand his offensive game and how to become more thrust worthy offensively. Miniotas played well, just solid guy who knows his role. He's a good B NT material.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  6. #146
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Zalgiris is looking really bad. I know its friendly,but problems is so obviuos everywhere.

    When team looses 2 defensive ankers Walkup and Hayes that defended all best euroleague players last 2 seasons + lost scoring leader Grigonis and energy bunny of the bench Jokubaitis team literally lost 4 most important players in one summer.

    They replacements looks alot weaker on both ends.

    Ulanovas looks badly not sure he is healthy or not,but offensively Edgaras offering very little same like Butkevicius or Sedekerskis. Hopefully his coach Maskvytis will ressurect his career in NT.

    No Kalnietis,no Mudiay,no Strelnieks 2 main zalgiris pg was Lukas and Ulanovas in Efes games it was nigthmare from playmaking standpoint

    Strelnieks,Kalnietis,Jankunas healths will big question all season long.

    Lukas cant defend nobody,Kalnietis at this age also, Nebo is brainless high jumper, 2 germans 2 white role players at best, Milanis and Jankunas should think about retiring , Lauvergne and defence had nothing in common. Can Janis play 3 straight games without injury?

    Zalgiris is dependable how much Mudiay will create.Player that hasnt played basketball all last year + first season in europe.

    Hopefully Schiller understand what kinda bunch he collected here ,because for me is fiasco of team building atleats looking right now in early stages.

    My prediction zalgiris will be one of 5 worst teams this season in euroleague in 14-18th place.. For me is difficult to imagine how this team with such players can built solid team defensive concept.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 09-13-2021 at 02:51 PM.

  7. #147
    Senior Member Svajunas's Avatar
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    I got to agree. It's not often that I turn off TV watching Zalgiris, but this season might be the year.
    Friendly games showed us that the team is nowhere near what we were expecting them to be at this point.
    Just a bunch of guys who don't understand their role. I just don't see this coach turning things around. I would bet that Schiller won't be here come spring.

  8. #148

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    OK, I have to agree with Toruko on this matter. Watching Saras' Barselona is like watching 90's Euroleague. Barsa is struggling even in ACB. Their average ACB opponents have much more vitality, stream and natural energy at the offensive end and game after game have very realistic chances to take Barsa down which has incomparably more talent. Barsa is playing mechanical, slow, predictable set offense which is really limited in terms of contemporary offense.Players are indecisive and restricted, reserved. Certain frustration is felt. If not Barsa's huge defensive advantage, cause they simple have some great defensive players as Higgins, Hayes, Calathes ect, Barsa would be in trouble even in ACB case Saras is playing outdated basketball at offensive end, it doesn't work. My prediction is that Barsa won't win EL regular season. Teams like CSKA, Efes, Real, Fener, Olympiacos will be in much better situation this EL early season on. I don't see chances for Barsa to win title and eventually I think Saras will either have to change his outdated "a ala Obradovic" system and style or he will go down as the coach. His authoritarian basketball can work for average EL team, he can maximize the efficiency of simple role players, but for elite player you can't just say every tiny detail like "we told you before how to protect the ball" and shit. The problem is that when you teach a player how to use toilet paper you kill his swagger, you create shitty atmosphere and basketball gone other ways long time ago in NBA and the best EL team has been Efes for 2 years which is playing completely different basketball. Basra seems to be dead, unmotivated. emotionally exhausted and pissed. They are playing like slaves. Not because they enjoy it, but because they are forced. IMO, Calathes playing the last season when he's the key PG of contending EL team, he's done. Slow and can't score anything. I literally don't see any chances for Barselona to win the title and if there won't be titles, Saras won't stay here forever. I sense that after last season, where Barsa actually even exceeded because of the absences of CSKA and a little choke of Efes in the final, this season there's even more frustration and anti-basketball in Barsa's team. Saras "system" is not working better this year. IMO, it's going no-where. Claver and Huertel may not be the last who will go off Barsa. I believe that if Barsa will struggle during regular season, the authoritarian fester will blow and some players will rebel. And 7min per game for Jokuabitis in first 3 ACB games? Remember active, decisive, "rising star of EL" Jokubaitis? You can for get about it Saras will stint his development this year, it's almost inevitable. It's impossible to have basketball shape playing 7min per game. That never worked. He benched him right after first mistake in offense when didn't even commit the TO, but sent the ball to wrong guy in one of set plays. Under Saras, Jokubaitis will become bleak, indecisive, robotic dushbag like current washed out Calathes. Jokubaitis will regret vastly that he declined Zalgiris offer, he could play 28 minutes in EL and go through mistake, improvise.

    I'm glad Maksvytis is hired as NT. Current Saras is so yesterday of basketball and I doubt he is willing to change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  9. #149
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    So last May Šarūnas Jasikevičius was being hailed for his coaching skills after leading Barcelona to the ACB championship, a first place finish in Euroleague and a silver in the Euroleague championship tournament. Now less than four months later he's a bum and an outdated Coach? Methinks it's fans who are fickle and all too prone to going from one extreme to another.


  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    So last May Šarūnas Jasikevičius was being hailed for his coaching skills after leading Barcelona to the ACB championship, a first place finish in Euroleague and a silver in the Euroleague championship tournament. Now less than four months later he's a bum and an outdated Coach? Methinks it's fans who are fickle and all too prone to going from one extreme to another.

    He is master of outdated form of coaching. It didn't change. And it worked perfectly for the club as Zalgiris, constructed of limited role players. But watching current Barselona I'm making conclusion that the team is struggling and this year they will have much tougher EL season, IMO. Saras came to Barsa and it wasn't his team. Now he made some adjustments and already working with the team for like 1.5 years and the team is not playing any better, rather contrary. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I think such coaches as current Saras is dying breed. Efes is paradigm where EL basketball is going. In 5 years, IMO, there won't be coaches in EL as current Saras (he can change theoretically) or Obradovic. That's 20th century shit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  11. #151
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    In 5 years, IMO, there won't be coaches in EL as current Saras (he can change theoretically) or Obradovic. That's 20th century shit....
    Fact Check: Coach Željko Obradović - EuroLeague Champion (1992, 1994, 1995, 2000, 2002, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2017)

    Looks more 21st century than 20th century to me. Making stuff up as you go along to fit your current narrative doesn't help you make your point you know.

    All I can say about Coach Jasikevičius is he got Žalgiris to the Euroleague Final Four for the first time in over a decade and that he got off on the right foot at Barcelona as the team was better under his reigns than it was the year before. But that's enough right now.

  12. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Fact Check: Coach Željko Obradović - EuroLeague Champion (1992, 1994, 1995, 2000, 2002, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2017)

    Looks more 21st century than 20th century to me. Making stuff up as you go along to fit your current narrative doesn't help you make your point you know.

    All I can say about Coach Jasikevičius is he got Žalgiris to the Euroleague Final Four for the first time in over a decade and that he got off on the right foot at Barcelona as the team was better under his reigns than it was the year before. But that's enough right now.
    Sure, I was aware of these facts. I made a general statement.

    You right. That's what I said when I defended Saras in conversation with Toruko, but looking to Barsa's game today, and I get to watch them more this season since Jokubaitis joined, I just see such a restricted and frustrated team. I doubt elite team can be so restricted long term. And I doubt that this form of basketball is staying any longer. The last time Obradovic won with his authoritarian style was 2017, likely it won't happen ever again. Since then Real, CSKA and last 2 years dominating Efes have won (de facto in 2020) the titles. All of these teams playing different basketball than "Obradovic/Saras". IMO, it's the past. Maybe Saras can win one title somewhere by a chance with such BB, but the tendency, IMO, is more than obvious. Teams like Efes, having creative and unleashed perimeter studs, will dominate archaic BB as Barsa's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  13. #153
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    1. Saras teams early on always struggles because dificult system for player to learn . Saras teams start playing really well around march judge anything about any team from first month of season its just kids talks.

    2.Cska coach Itoudis is also apple from Obradovic three like Saras is and he won euroleague in 2019.

    3. Woulnt be suprised how this ale 90s outdated basketball style coaches will win euroleague titles in

    2017 Zelko
    2019 Itoudis
    2021 Saras or Itoudis ?

    main thing from Obradovic three apples is super physical defence (alot of contact) pressuring opponents very hard and that comes from very harsh and demanding coaching. Not every high quality player can play in this system.

    M.James or T.Heurtel enought to take these 2 examples from last season .There is no doubt that they are elite euroleague guards,but that demanding defensive minded system doesnt suited them at all and they had conflicts with obro coaching style three.

    If you are not pressuring opponents with real contact in defence and are do not playing by system in offence eventually you will be asked to leave doesnt matter how good you are.

    Obra coaching system style is bigger than any individual player thats the real reason that system have passed test of time.

    Lasso or Ataman freely run systems works from time to time sure.

    But most euroleague titles was won by very demanding and systematical Obra coaching style in last 20 seasons.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 09-26-2021 at 12:51 PM.

  14. #154

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    I'm not an expert on Itoudis, but from what I've seen he's more liberal than Saras at the offensive end, leaves more room for players with the ball to make their decisions, not so maniacally prone to set strict offense. Off course, those decisions have to be spot on. James sometimes just goes wild, braking all the rules of team BB and going straight ISO, sometimes stupidly ISO. And he's a bit of a nutcase too, at times completely uncoachable. To be fair, Claver and Huertel are perfect system guys, but they had issues with Saras. Despite both Saras and Itoudis being students of Obradovic, I think Itoudis is more liberal than Saras, and I would put Itoudis in the same shelf with Messina and Pascual. Demanding, intelligent system coaches, but not maniacal authoritative system coaches as Obradovic and Saras. My take anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  15. #155
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    And 7min per game for Jokuabitis in first 3 ACB games? Remember active, decisive, "rising star of EL" Jokubaitis? You can for get about it.... It's impossible to have basketball shape playing 7min per game. That never worked.... Jokubaitis will regret vastly that he declined Zalgiris offer, he could play 28 minutes in EL and go through mistake, improvise.
    I agree. I've always maintained that when it comes to development a young player is better served playing for a lesser team where he gets real court time than for a big money club where he's only a bit player. Rokas Jokubaitis went from 6:00 minutes per Euroleague game under Coach Jasikevičius in 2019-20 to 20:23 minutes per Euroleague game in 2020-21 under Coach Schiller and looked poised to have even a greater role with Žalgiris in 2021-22. What more could a player fresh out of his teens have wanted?

    So why did Jokubaitis go to Barcelona? Clearly for the money. Sadly his development as a player will now be stunted. Maybe if Barcelona lends him to Lietkabelis or Juventus where he'd get close to thirty minutes per game....

    Last edited by Hepcat; 09-26-2021 at 05:41 PM.

  16. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    I agree. I've always maintained that when it comes to development a young player is better served playing for a lesser team where he gets real court time than for a big money club where he's only a bit player. Rokas Jokubaitis went from 6:00 minutes per Euroleague game under Coach Jasikevičius in 2019-20 to 20:23 minutes per Euroleague game in 2020-21 under Coach Schiller and looked poised to have even a greater role with Žalgiris in 2021-22. What more could a player fresh out of his teens have wanted?

    So why did Jokubaitis go to Barcelona? Clearly for the money. Sadly his development as a player will now be stunted. Maybe if Barcelona lends him to Lietkabelis or Utena where he'd get close to thirty minutes per game....

    Funny part is that the rumour is that Zalgiris offered better money. And Schiller was offering starters' spot for him. The logic is simple. To play for the better team, in incomparably better league (ACB), to be in super competitive environment. Now he should just hope that his minutes will increase. Bolmaro seen more playing time in the second phase of the season. In a way it's a transition phase for Jokubaitis, but 7min is too shabby even for current stage. He will improve even under these cirmustances, but I'm sure he would benefit much more playing 25min for Zalgiris in EL and going through his mistakes. He would had been putting up something like 10-12pts and 4-6a for Zalgiris this season as best or second best Zalgiris' backcourt player.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  17. #157
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Funny part is that the rumour is that Zalgiris offered better money. And Schiller was offering starters' spot for him.
    Plus his pick of the women in Kaunas. I mean WTF?

    Well now he'll get to watch the play in this incomparably better ACB league from a courtside seat on the bench.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 09-27-2021 at 03:24 AM.

  18. #158
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Funny part is that the rumour is that Zalgiris offered better money.
    That part wouldn't surprise me. In Kaunas Rokas Jokubaitis would be a draw and help to sell tickets and merchandise even if the team was having a mediocre season. In Barcelona though he's just another foreign kid and therefore a non-entity.

    Worse yet for Jokubaitis the cost of living in Barcelona has to be much higher than in Kaunas.

    Meanwhile on a playing time basis, Jokubaitis is giving up a lot playing for Barcelona instead of Žalgiris. If he ends up playing an average of 10 minutes per game for Barcelona versus 25 minutes for Žalgiris, that's 510 minutes more court time playing for Žalgiris in Euroleague games. Then 750 minutes of court time in LKL games. All he'll be getting to offset these losses is 340 minutes of ACB action.

    When I was a kid my mother and older sister used to sound starstruck at the mention of glamorous sunny Florida and California. (I myself can't bear hot climates. Even summers here in Toronto get too hot for my blood.) Is that how Spain and Greece are regarded by many young Lithuanians? Because quite simply I'm trying to understand what Jokubaitis might have been thinking.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 09-27-2021 at 03:53 AM.

  19. #159
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    I wonder Motiejunas watching Zalgiris guards this season so far 35 old veterans Kalnietis and Milaknis, half injured shadow of 32 Strelnieks dont have ideas that their loan peaking player T.Dimsa could help this barely moving zalgiris trio lineup ?

    Men is balling and had second game in 2 weeks with 25pts+ performance and he does that in winning team that won fiba champions qualification.

    + guard in his peak of his powers is moving on defence too,those 3 veterans doesnt seem to do that anymore.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 09-27-2021 at 08:19 AM.

  20. #160
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    You right. That's what I said when I defended Saras in conversation with Toruko, but looking to Barsa's game today, and I get to watch them more this season since Jokubaitis joined, I just see such a restricted and frustrated team.
    That though is still a dramatic about face in opinion after just three ACB games (which incidentally Barcelona won) in this young 2021-22 season.


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