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Thread: Should Olympic basketball be for the U24 category ?

  1. #41
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    The problem with the football comparison is that when the FIFA World Cup was created in 1950 it didn't truly replace another event as the true best vs best. The fiba World Cup was and still is a secondary event from the beginning. It was only starting in 1986 that it kind of blossomed somewhat. Not to be disrespectful but I think many Serbians wish to elevate it to such status because of their great history in it as opposed to the Olympics. I would bet that the old Soviet Union understood that back in the day these world championships were not the equivalent of the Olympics when they battled the USA in the 60's, 70's and 80's. And although I agree that it might suck that the USA could kind of dictate which tournament is more important, that cat has been out of the bag for a long time. And finally any tournament title is great but if the best team fields very low quality teams is it truly a world title? Can you imagine if Brazil didn't participate in the World Cup for the first 20 years? Would the winner really have the same standing and prestige ?
    I am Serbian and I don't think it is that relevant. It's actually 3rd by quality, after Olympic and Eurobasket (for national teams).

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    Guys. You are looking this situation from countries where basketball is popular. There's lot of countries where people watch basketball only when it's played in Olympics. If you take the best players out of the competition you're gonna lose lot of TV-time and then lot of attention. Best thing to happen for basketball (IMO) is that someone is going to beat team USA in Olympics. Because of it US players would be motivated to represent their country and other people could get more faith that it is possible to beat team US.

  3. #43
    Member SashKX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    I am Serbian and I don't think it is that relevant. It's actually 3rd by quality, after Olympic and Eurobasket (for national teams).
    Yea, so you know there's a problem with the World Cup when Eurobasket surpasses it in quality, and its gonna get even worse when the former gets expanded to 32 teams. Also with that new qualifying format, maybe this issue will be solved when everyone starts sending U24 teams to qualifiers and World Cup turns into U24 instead of the Olympics.

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    Watch the USA get knocked off now and we can throw this under 24 talk out the window. I still give it a 10% chance of happening.

  5. #45
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyh View Post
    Guys. You are looking this situation from countries where basketball is popular. There's lot of countries where people watch basketball only when it's played in Olympics. If you take the best players out of the competition you're gonna lose lot of TV-time and then lot of attention
    I agree with this part of your post. That's exactly what lot of people are missing. It's win-win situation now, for both Olympics and international basketball. Former gets ones of the most popular sport, latter lot of worldwide attention. Doesn't matter if your team participates or not, you still watch it, it's Olympics, you can watch freaking diving and have fun, sport you would never watch under different circumstances. Exactly that huge prestige of the event, longevity are what atracts top stars to participate too. It's naive to think that if some age restrictions would appear, World Cup would suddenly gain the same attention like Olympic basketball tournament. It won't. Especially in these times we are living, when huge money takes over patriotic feelings, generations changes, when employer which pays you millions, asks players to skip NT and etc. lot of players agrees. We already lost prior WC Eurobasket some 10-15 years ago, some 10 years ago WC prestige started to drop heavily. It never was close to Olympics anyway, but now it's even below continental Olympic qualifiers. Olympics and it's prestige are basically the only things left to gather all the star players together to play for their respective NTs. Add age restrictions and who knows what will happen, maybe we'll lose only top notch tournament we have as with new system continental tournaments are useless. FIBA made lot of stupid things , but thnx god or whatever that controls their minds that they atleast realizes that too, so they made World Cup as Olympic qualifier to increase it's prestige as in FIBA circles they are well aware what top players preffers and that WC can't match Olympics in any way.
    That comparison with football is out of place. FIFA (football) is miles ahead in every aspect (money, development, popularity, history and etc.). Just a fun fact that FIFA World Cup was held 6 years before basketball was even added to Olympics as before no one really took it seriously, while football started it's compaigne against IOC already in early 1900s, but cause of mess in the world it took a while to start own tournament. For basketball to catch it or even come close is simply impossible, not in our lifetime. Football can easily live without Olympics, for international basketball it would be really tough, especially nowadays


  6. #46
    Senior Member interxavierxxx's Avatar
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    People are overlooking the fact that even at U20 and below competitions, the USA is still dominant. There is really nothing that can compete with the USA in terms of the ability to mass produce talent.
    "INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS."

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    Senior Member reamily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SashKX View Post
    Yea, so you know there's a problem with the World Cup when Eurobasket surpasses it in quality, and its gonna get even worse when the former gets expanded to 32 teams. Also with that new qualifying format, maybe this issue will be solved when everyone starts sending U24 teams to qualifiers and World Cup turns into U24 instead of the Olympics.
    that's likely what wil happen..
    To becomes Asia's Best, we need to compete against the World's Best..

  8. #48
    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamily View Post
    that's likely what wil happen..



    This is actually what will surely not happen,but it should.It's like telling that FIBA did all that shit with the schedule adjustment like moving the WC a year after the football tournament in order not to be in pair with it,the qualification during the NBA and Euroleague games and enlargement 32 teams and the "easier" path to the Olympics,just because they were planning to put an age limit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by R1ou View Post
    This is actually what will surely not happen,but it should.It's like telling that FIBA did all that shit with the schedule adjustment like moving the WC a year after the football tournament in order not to be in pair with it,the qualification during the NBA and Euroleague games and enlargement 32 teams and the "easier" path to the Olympics,just because they were planning to put an age limit?
    I think another big reason they changed the format is that they want create interest by establishing home court. International basketball doesn't have anything like the Fifa World Cup qualifying or Euro qualifying. Until now it is always on a neutral court.

  10. #50
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    You guys are living in the past. Back when I was a kid in the 90s, basketball needed the Olympics. It was the only way the world's best players got to play against the best the US had to offer seeing as most of them didn't make the NBA. But times have changed. Not only in the fact that the best player in the NBA and the world will in a few short years be from Canada and not the US, or the fact that over the past decade countries other than the US have produce US-like players. But more importantly in the fact that this generation coming of age flat out doesn't care. They don't care about '92. Most of them probably don't even know. They don't care about the Olympics. They care about what's happening now in this very second. They live in social media moments.

    Not only is it time to move on and embrace that higher status on the world stage. It is the PERFECT time to move on. There are NBA level players playing in Japan for Christ's sake. Basketball is not as far behind football/soccer as people want to think. All it needs is that big push, and 2019 could be it. I really wish it had been in France/Germany instead but maybe China in 2019 can be like Turkey in 2010.

    Also, in 1950 soccer/football was majorly popular everywhere, including the US. That all changed just a decade later when US sports like basketball and football were broadcast on TV. The US didn't jump back on board for real until it was shoved down our throats in 2010.

    People respect tradition and prestige yes. Or at least it makes them want to watch to be "a part of it" like with soccer/football at the London games. Well the WC has that. The Golden Generation, France, dominant Spain, Greece, Italy, the Eastern European teams. Basketball has that in spades. Rio has done a good job of embracing that with the Oscar Schmidt tributes. People forget that NBA players have only been in international play for less than 30 years. There were great teams before that but many of us just either didn't see them or don't remember them. Not to mention that our commentators are arrogant Americans. I love Doug Collins but he thinks world history started in the 70s, and don't even get me started on that Boston commentator.

    That is the problem in a nutshell. Partially because the NBA walks all over FIBA, our country does not respect the international game like we should let alone appreciate it. From our commentators to our networks to the average American. And basketball does an atrocious job of marketing the great players from around the world. Imagine if people in the UK and elsewhere didn't keno or appreciate hose great Colombian teams or Pele or things like that. Our domestic league doesn't value players like Barbosa, Manu, Pau Gasol until very recently, Dirk as much as we should. You can go down the list, and they are all retiring very soon. And it's because we don't respect the international game entirely because nobody is forcing us to.
    Last edited by CHBB; 08-10-2016 at 03:30 PM.

  11. #51
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by interxavierxxx View Post
    People are overlooking the fact that even at U20 and below competitions, the USA is still dominant. There is really nothing that can compete with the USA in terms of the ability to mass produce talent.
    They have in the last 3-4 years but not in general. The gap is not that large. Especially in U19 age group, they have been beater and barely won vs Croatia recently etc. In general, they would still be favorites but in U24 games the gap would be much smaller.

  12. #52
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    @CHBB

    I hope you're right about the potential of 2019. And the tournament as a whole has come a long way when it comes to interest in this country, but it still has a long way to go. At least we got to see all of the USA games broadcast since '94.
    Even in '98 when there was no Nba participation due to the lockout. But I am old enough to remember '82, '86, and '90.
    1990 I had to watch limited USA games on the local Mexican channel here in New York City. No American tv coverage whatsoever. Not even a highlight clip on sports center. The Goodwill games tournament was viewed as a more important tournament and was televised. In 1986 we got to see some of it only because it doubled as the Goodwill games tournament. 1982 absolutely nothing.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    They have in the last 3-4 years but not in general. The gap is not that large. Especially in U19 age group, they have been beater and barely won vs Croatia recently etc. In general, they would still be favorites but in U24 games the gap would be much smaller.
    That's entirely because of how assbackwards our development pipeline is these days. I can tell you for a fact that there are many players who could possibly star in the NBA that never get the chance because of the overhyped, egotistical ones who do. This team would lose without Lowry, Butler, and Draymond. That's a fact. The others are turnstiles defensively and careless on the offensive end. Look at how the US teams lose in the US vs World rookie/sophomore games.

    Our 23 and under team would look like a who's who of overrated high draft picks but we have the players year in and year out. Instead of Brandon Ingram in 2020, you play a recent college draftee who actually knows how to play the game right. Look at Draymond. He was a second rounder. Butler was a late first. Deandre was a second rounder. I could rattle off countless players who are better than some of our most hyped ones these days who could be plugged into an Olympic roster.

  14. #54
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    Maybe we can have a handicap system to make the tournament more even:

    USA: U19 team

    Spain: No naturalized players

    France: Only Parker allowed to touch the ball in the last five minutes of the game (so basically no difference...)

    Argentina: Only one player 35 or over on the court at any time

    Nigeria: At least one player who has actually been to Nigeria on the court at all times

    Venezuela: Players allowed eight fouls per game

    China: Allowed six players on the court
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  15. #55
    Senior Member interxavierxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    They have in the last 3-4 years but not in general. The gap is not that large. Especially in U19 age group, they have been beater and barely won vs Croatia recently etc. In general, they would still be favorites but in U24 games the gap would be much smaller.
    It's sort of a problem here in Asia with the upcoming Asia-Oceania merger in the stupid new format.

    Where do we really draw the line? Even the FIBA World Cup, less people are interested because they know who will win. International basketball is the new Bundesliga or Ligue One.
    "INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS."

  16. #56
    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by interxavierxxx View Post
    It's sort of a problem here in Asia with the upcoming Asia-Oceania merger in the stupid new format.


    If you don't mind,can you explain why you find this stupid?

  17. #57
    Senior Member Jon_Koncak's Avatar
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    It's either mens teams or no basketball in olympics at all.Noone would watch a glorified universiade.And tbh the quality would be awful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    It's either mens teams or no basketball in olympics at all.Noone would watch a glorified universiade.And tbh the quality would be awful.
    Nobody is suggesting banning pros.

  19. #59
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    JGX the Argentina one had me dying. "Only one player 35 or over on the court"

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1ou View Post
    If you don't mind,can you explain why you find this stupid?
    I talked with one Pinoy friend of mine earlier about the new format, apparently this qualifying schedule is really bad for their PBA and their basketball federation has already announced they'll be sending amateurs there, as they apparently did some time ago.

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