Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. IV

[TheRodster21]

the tone and content of the post is exactly the constructive response i was hoping for, it starts with recognizing our shortfalls in development compared to our rivals , which is quite clear...

While there there is no guarantee that if Troy, Ranidel and Pingris trained early in the perimeter ( got more reps) they would be bonafide Div 1 prospects, the point is getting more of our tall players to get more exposure will certainly help improve our overall output of producing div 1 level type of wing prospects.. (note i'm not saying they can only get better by going to div 1, but I'm certainly suggesting that getting the approriate guard skill training and exposure increase the possbility they would be effective international players for us)

Wouldn’t europe be a good option? High level of competition not to mention kids get taken care of. Obviously going to the states isn’t easy and unless you’re a Kai level prospect It’s most likely a team wouldn’t be willing to take care of you. I suspect this is probably why there are the more kids going abroad.

[Silent Killer]

thank goodness for dave ildefonso.. 6’3-6’4 guard. trained as guard. he wants to play guard.. chicken wing amsali trained as SF, when he moved to NU they made him a PF. now he plays SF again when he moved to san beda

[analyzed]

BTW i consider fil- foreigners who join BG (eligible) or those who join Philippine colleges as a freshman fresh fil foreign high school graduate as " homegrown" (u16 eligible) , why? because essentially the local federation (SBP) plays a role in the players development.

To this I've focused my efforts (to those who are asking what I'm doing about it) , this year brought in 14 year old 6' 4 Mason Amos (a shooter, will be a SF around 6' 6 when fully grown) , Mason is in the U16 BG pool and is trainied as a SF. A few years ago i brought in a raw FEU Freshman 6'4 Ken Tuffin who really is a wing.. ( Ken was selected to 23 for 23 pool) , while you guys might scoff at the idea that , yun lang.. in context , note - New Zealand only has a Filopino migrant communtiy of just 30 K , that's just 1 % of the US 3 million. for us to produce output above to me is not simple at all.

It hasn't stopped there , i've organised clinics for our coaches (BG) led by OKC thunder and Adams trainor on the necessary strength and athleticisim to build the right bodies.. This I think is an area of weakness for the Philippines.

And of course continued to help the BG staff... in recruitment ( run a data base of key foreign cities they've asked me to scout) , so hindi naman puro daldal lang , meron naman siguro ginagawa... of course we need all the help we can get...

[xenoloxy]

C- Chiu and Kirkness- enforcer type of center(Wilmer Ong-type)
PF- Baltazar- typical body of a tall pinoy( long, lanky but lacks the heft in international standard
SF- Paras- good athleticism and skillsets of international swingman but attitude problem and poor shot selection

SF - Lopez, Jordi
SG/PG - Torculas, Ildefonso

[JAMSKIE]

Ideally height wise for international ball, SBP should take note

PG-5’11 - 6’4 - 6’5: I believe we can produced players now in this height rage
SG-6’2 - 6’6: We can developed players in this height range. Sa Pinas if you are 6’6 PF and C na
SF-6’6 - 6’8: I saw our youth team and they showed some promise but compare it to other countries we still need improvement
PF-6’8 - 6’9: Si Edu lang nakikita ko mataas ang ceiling. Hoping the other guys improved.
C- 7’0 up: PF and C still our current big weakness. I can see Kai as our anchor but he needs an able back up.

If SBP is thinking long term get Kouame as a local or naturalized and get another one and I assumed Brownlee will be naturalized soon he can be tapped for small international tournament.

In terms of dev’t problem area yung SF, F and C positions in the long run. Japeth and Junemar are old in terms of basketball age we may see that this is their last international stint.

6-foot-4/6-foot-5 point guards in Phi basketball would be quite unrealistic in the next say 5 to 6 years. I would like to make a much more realistic & reasonable approach. Like 6-foot-1/6-foot-2 point guards becoming more common in Philippine basketball in years to come

[Brown Bones]

Because you always jump from 1 argument to another and you were already called out for it.

Development is another thing na pinasok mo.

SBP mandate must be for the total improvement of Philippine basketball internationaly and I think the PBA should follow suit if not they will be stuck in their development of players pang entertainment lang.

Bunot system is just a temporary solution. If the SBP will continue to rely on the PBA we will only get moral victories because we know the current priority is not Gilas.




[QUOTE=analyzed;1288535]the tone and content of the post is exactly the constructive response i was hoping for, it starts with recognizing our shortfalls in development compared to our rivals , which is quite clear

[analyzed]

^
I don't sight our shortcomings and being below our rivals in development output (yes we're behind) simply for the sake of it. I do it for the purpose to open up the discussion on what needs to be done differently. Because unless we recognize we are behind which we obviously are, there is no need for change.
I think someone has an avatar that says something like madness is expecting different results by doing the same thing

Unless we know our results are poor in output, why change and do things differently

[analyzed]

6-foot-4/6-foot-5 point guards in Phi basketball would be quite unrealistic in the next say 5 to 6 years. I would like to make a much more realistic & reasonable approach. Like 6-foot-1/6-foot-2 point guards becoming more common in Philippine basketball in years to come

Yes I think 6 2 for guards similar to the 15 Japanese guards in NCAA US is more realistic.
The thing is we have to start with the right material, we already failed if our top 24 in the NBTC NCAA as an example has zero players of the right height for their position. (tapos na pag ganoon)

[sajubeads]

[QUOTE=Brown Bones;1288559]Because you always jump from 1 argument to another and you were already called out for it.

Development is another thing na pinasok mo.

SBP mandate must be for the total improvement of Philippine basketball internationaly and I think the PBA should follow suit if not they will be stuck in their development of players pang entertainment lang.

Bunot system is just a temporary solution. If the SBP will continue to rely on the PBA we will only get moral victories because we know the current priority is not Gilas.

the tone and content of the post is exactly the constructive response i was hoping for, it starts with recognizing our shortfalls in development compared to our rivals , which is quite clear

Problem is SBP is still subservient to PBA knowing PBA has the best players in the land and one way or the other SBP will still need PBA, so SBP dont want to brun bridges with PBA. Last 2016 there was a move to hold the Cadeta of 2016 in the amateur ranks for several years like with Gilas 1..But PBA as well as its boards were up in arms kasi saan daw sila kukuha ng young blood thus Cadets draft... Fast forward to 2019, the Cadets of 2016, (Pogoy, Wright, Kiefer, Perez, Troy) forms the bulk of the Gilas pool for World Cup... Other 2016 Cadets would have been Parks, Ferrer and Belo. Pero kulang pa rin SBP still needs reinforcement from PBA pero MVP teams and NP can cover the need of a big(Blatche plus MVP guys Erram, Almazan and favorite Belga) can complete the pool...

[zairex]

Yes I think 6 2 for guards similar to the 15 Japanese guards in NCAA US is more realistic.
The thing is we have to start with the right material, we already failed if our top 24 in the NBTC NCAA as an example has zero players of the right height for their position. (tapos na pag ganoon)

I am curious. Who are these 15 Japanese guards in NCAA US today that are 6'2" and plays PG?

[fadzki]

be carefull what you ask, while Japan has produced i think only 3 Official ( reg season NBA players) correct me if wrong, the purpose of the discussion is to look at output and as i said there are other metrics , such as Div 1 players...
Now look at this list of 42 Japan born players who played in US colleges , 42 !

https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/birth-countries/64/Japan

See the difference ! Not far behind in output, are you serious. so how many homegrown players have we in Div 1 , 2 ? so 42 compared to 2, how's that not far behind? and note a number of the Japanese div 1 players are significant contributors to their teams not bench warmers like Japs or Kobe..

BTW if you look at the list 15 players are listed as guards 6 2" and above. If you understand basketball, you know the significance of this. It will be far fetch for you to produce a list of 15 players homegrown in the Phil who are listed as " real guards" ( not Chan type who are really forwards) that are 6'2.. The evidence is glaring that they Japan is simply producing players of the right height for position to be considered for Div 1, we simply are not... or at least not at the rate they do... ( 20 x more div 1)

Looking forward to seeing the excuses again this time.. this has to stop parating meron excuse ... kahit tambak na sa output... (20x)

Maybe SBP can take a look the process of recruitment on how our high school talents get scholarship to a UAAP/NCAA school or ask why Fil-for high school ballers from Australia, New Zealand or even the US would rather choose to play college ball in the Philippines. I've watch some youth games between the Philippines and Japan and the talent that our young players are at par or even better than some of Japan's young players they played against. If those Japanese kids gets recruited by US NCAA D1 school, I'm sure some of our young talents will surely be recruited if they tried but the problem is they just want to stay in the Philippines. God knows why.

Maybe there is something going on that we don't know on why all these blue chip Pinoy ballers would rather stay in the country rather than chase that NBA dream.

[analyzed]

I am curious. Who are these 15 Japanese guards in NCAA US today that are 6'2" and plays PG?

Not necessarily PG, just listed as guards the list is the link above, and they're not all current college players.
While obviously it's not absolute thing that they're all bigger, the rate of perimeter oriented players for a certain height (6'2 and above) is higher. This is forseeing what a player's s height has to be to be reasonably competitive internationally

[analyzed]

Fadski, what you have to realize is that many countries Japan and New Zealand included do not have competitive serious basketball in college. Especially not like the semi pro nature of the UAAP. Therefore the normal pathway of many in NZ and Japan if they want a paid scholarship as well as living expenses covered while playing basketball is US NCAA. While in the Philippines college teams have already planned their pathway to their school even in early high school. Now here is how that impacts development. The Japanese high school kid who stands 6 2ish already knows for him to even have a chance of playing in the US he has to play exclusively guard or PG. While a 6 2 Pinoy kid may be asked to even be their high school big man to win more games.. to bring glory to their school. See the significant difference

[c_d]

^There's 6'2 Chikara Tanaka who's now playing in IMG who was born in 2002. He's part of their Team B pool for the Jones cup but didn't make the cut. In comparison, we have 2002 born Forthsky Padrigao who will most likely be playing in the UAAP juniors until he's 19.

Their u16 team this year will have 6'5 wing Ibu Yamazaki who I believe plays for Meisei High School, same school as Hachimura.

Problem is SBP is still subservient to PBA knowing PBA has the best players in the land and one way or the other SBP will still need PBA, so SBP dont want to brun bridges with PBA. Last 2016 there was a move to hold the Cadeta of 2016 in the amateur ranks for several years like with Gilas 1

That's not a reason for the sbp not to establish a youth program with the goal of producing world class talent at the world youth level and eventually for the men's team. As for reusing the Gilas 1 formula, I'd rather see a program where we train youth players to be recruited to play for eiher the NBA Global Academy, a good NCAA college program or club ball in Europe. That gives them a bigger chance of landing a pro contract overseas where they'll be regularly competing at a level that is comparable to what you'll see in FIBA Tournaments. That playing experience will carry over when they suit up for the NT.

That type of program will most probably be more economical and sustainable compared to spending millions naturalizing former NBA players, trying to pass off ineligible part pinoy NBA players as eligible or giving 3 year contracts to a team made of local college players who are in their early to mid 20s.

[tomcat]

^There's 6'2 Chikara Tanaka who's now playing in IMG who was born in 2002. He's part of their Team B pool for the Jones cup but didn't make the cut. In comparison, we have 2002 born Forthsky Padrigao who will most likely be playing in the UAAP juniors until he's 19.

Their u16 team this year will have 6'5 wing Ibu Yamazaki who I believe plays for Meisei High School, same school as Hachimura.


That's not a reason for the sbp not to establish a youth program with the goal of producing world class talent at the world youth level and eventually for the men's team. As for reusing the Gilas 1 formula, I'd rather see a program where we train youth players to be recruited to play for eiher the NBA Global Academy, a good NCAA college program or club ball in Europe.

And the Philippines sent a club team(Mighty Sports)created only for that tournament(william Jones Cup).lol That's basketball development of the Philippines for future FIBA competition. And member of Cadets are busy with their college team preparing for the UAAP and NCAA while cadets in PBA are busy playing for their mother club(on-going Commisioner's Cup).