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Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. IV
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Originally posted by analyzed View PostNo need to put to much meaning into this, When the SBP made a request just like in 2011 then put 2 names - Lasssiter and Lutz , this year they requested for Greg and Pringle's exception basically simulataneous. you see when you make a request and call the needed attention of the Sec Gen you better maximize it and if you can make singit another player ( Pringle) , but not the Pringle request was and will always be a long shot ( asa ka pa) but since we already made the request and we got a negative decision, might as well ask for clarrification.. that's all this is. nothing more. It's not like MVP will rant in dissapointment , bakit - how unjust! - hindi pinayagan is Stanley ..
I agree with you on the Pringle case since it might be to late of asking for his exception , his what 30-31 and we do have a bunch that can play in that position but not as complete as what a stanley can offer. I would prefer that we use the exception on JC case since he is much younger and if we get him to play as a local the 123 spot will now be solid.
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for me it is just simple.. of course i am not an insider unlike some here but simple logic says, if you have the legit papers, and have the papers asked by the world governing body, then that's it.. they must be granted "exception" no matter what...
the fact that FIBA is asking for documents mean there is merit to the case and just needs to dig deeper with supporting documents.. and if a player presents ALL supporting documents, then why deny? really.. for example.. yes you didn't have a passport by age 16.. but you have a philippine passport.. then you play 5 years in the local league.. then you present birth certificates of your mother and father and either state they are Filipino.. and present other documents of relatives from the homeland.. then i don't think they would deny the player, especially if FIBA requests all of these..
kasi why would you ask all these LEGIT LEGAL documents then at the end of the day deny lang pala.. this is not like applying for a loan that even if you comply if they deem you not able to pay in the future ok lang.. they can deny you.. this is about citizenship and playing for the country.. there is no grey area.. yes it is black and white when it comes to the passport thing.. but when you go to the other provisions, dapat walang grey area.. they should have DEFINED criteria for this at hindi subjective lang.. for example, when you do not have a passport before 16, if you present documents that show both or one parent is a Filipino citizen (either birth certificate or whatever) PLUS having played in the home country for at least 5 years (whether college or professional) then automatic local ka na.. that should how FIBA should be.. no grey area!!!
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You're making an assumption that it's FIBA that is asking for additional documents, please note when you're on an "appeal status" a decision has already been made ( like denied visa) , the onus is on the applicant to appeal and provide additional documents.NBTC- Team New Zealand - Camp David: vision "To provide a basketball Pathway for Filipino Kids in NZ while building men of character and leadership. I can do all things ...
https://www.facebook.com/teamNZBasketball/
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additionally an appeal and providing additional documents does not gurantee approval. Anyway i hope you read the sec gen letter , it's very clear naman what the reasoning is and how it is significantly different from Greg's case.NBTC- Team New Zealand - Camp David: vision "To provide a basketball Pathway for Filipino Kids in NZ while building men of character and leadership. I can do all things ...
https://www.facebook.com/teamNZBasketball/
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Originally posted by zuma169 View Postfor me it is just simple.. of course i am not an insider unlike some here but simple logic says, if you have the legit papers, and have the papers asked by the world governing body, then that's it.. they must be granted "exception" no matter what...
the fact that FIBA is asking for documents mean there is merit to the case and just needs to dig deeper with supporting documents.. and if a player presents ALL supporting documents, then why deny? really.. for example.. yes you didn't have a passport by age 16.. but you have a philippine passport.. then you play 5 years in the local league.. then you present birth certificates of your mother and father and either state they are Filipino.. and present other documents of relatives from the homeland.. then i don't think they would deny the player, especially if FIBA requests all of these..
kasi why would you ask all these LEGIT LEGAL documents then at the end of the day deny lang pala.. this is not like applying for a loan that even if you comply if they deem you not able to pay in the future ok lang.. they can deny you.. this is about citizenship and playing for the country.. there is no grey area.. yes it is black and white when it comes to the passport thing.. but when you go to the other provisions, dapat walang grey area.. they should have DEFINED criteria for this at hindi subjective lang.. for example, when you do not have a passport before 16, if you present documents that show both or one parent is a Filipino citizen (either birth certificate or whatever) PLUS having played in the home country for at least 5 years (whether college or professional) then automatic local ka na.. that should how FIBA should be.. no grey area!!!
Tama ! galing. this explanation nails it..when submitting documents if at first you don't deem it legit better to deny it right away and not ask for more documents so as not to waste both of the applicant and FIBA's time
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These appeals are part of long term strategies of SBP. It is obvious from the start that Pringle's case is shoot to the moon. Yet they are doing it for two major things. Keep alive the lines of communication and discussion regarding exception, and most important of all gain information/ experience in tackling these issues and at the same time kind of get a feel on how FIBA (in this case the current Sec-Gen) reacts to it.
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Originally posted by THE_GOAT View PostI hope chot means about 2023 program is about marketing Lang not program director or any basketball related he should let other handle the cadets I'll be disappointed if his coaching or even consultant please chot just resign totally in basketball please!!!
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Originally posted by analyzed View Post^
You're making an assumption that it's FIBA that is asking for additional documents, please note when you're on an "appeal status" a decision has already been made ( like denied visa) , the onus is on the applicant to appeal and provide additional documents.
but what i am trying to point out is that there shouldn't be a grey area when it comes to citizenship.. if you have the documents required then it shouldn't be a problem.. that is why what I am trying to say is that FIBA should have these black and white rules (residency OR number of playing years in the home country OR parents birth certificates or any legal document regarding parents citizenhip).. so if these aren't met then wala na.. no more exemption.. because i think these can already cover all bases.. kung wala ka ni isa sa mga qualifications na un, then hindi talaga pwede period..
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Originally posted by zuma169 View Postfor me it is just simple.. of course i am not an insider unlike some here but simple logic says, if you have the legit papers, and have the papers asked by the world governing body, then that's it.. they must be granted "exception" no matter what...
the fact that FIBA is asking for documents mean there is merit to the case and just needs to dig deeper with supporting documents.. and if a player presents ALL supporting documents, then why deny? really.. for example.. yes you didn't have a passport by age 16.. but you have a philippine passport.. then you play 5 years in the local league.. then you present birth certificates of your mother and father and either state they are Filipino.. and present other documents of relatives from the homeland.. then i don't think they would deny the player, especially if FIBA requests all of these..
kasi why would you ask all these LEGIT LEGAL documents then at the end of the day deny lang pala.. this is not like applying for a loan that even if you comply if they deem you not able to pay in the future ok lang.. they can deny you.. this is about citizenship and playing for the country.. there is no grey area.. yes it is black and white when it comes to the passport thing.. but when you go to the other provisions, dapat walang grey area.. they should have DEFINED criteria for this at hindi subjective lang.. for example, when you do not have a passport before 16, if you present documents that show both or one parent is a Filipino citizen (either birth certificate or whatever) PLUS having played in the home country for at least 5 years (whether college or professional) then automatic local ka na.. that should how FIBA should be.. no grey area!!!
Book 3 – Players and Officials
Chapter I. - Eligibility and National Status of Players
Eligibility of Players
21b. For purposes of letter (a) above and in the event of doubts, any player claiming to have acquired a legal nationality before having reached the age of sixteen (16), without presenting the respective passport with a date of issue before the player’s sixteenth birthday, requires a decision by the Secretary General confirming that he does not fall under the restriction of letter (a) above. In taking this decision the Secretary General shall take into account the following criteria:
- the number of years during which the player has lived in the country, for the national team of which he wishes to play;
- the number of seasons during which the player has participated in domestic competitions in the country of the national team for which he wishes to play;
- any other criteria capable of establishing a significant link between the player and the country, for the national team of which he wishes to play.
http://www.fiba.basketball/downloads...%20PLAYERS.pdf
*ARTICLE IV,Section 2. Natural-born citizens are those who are citizens of the Philippines from birth without having to perform any act to acquire or perfect their Philippine citizenship. (THE 1987 CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES )Last edited by Alex07; 09-12-2018, 03:28 AM."How small ball works: Tall Skilled beats small skilled every time,but small skilled beats tall stiff every time" - Kevin McHale
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Originally posted by zuma169 View Postoh if that's the case then my assumption is wrong... yup i did read that since pringle was not able to present that he did have a passport ate age 16 (or any documents laying claim of filipino citizenship before 16) that automatically rendered a denial verdict from FIBA.. that is why SBP are appealing for his case with pertinent documents supporting this..
but what i am trying to point out is that there shouldn't be a grey area when it comes to citizenship.. if you have the documents required then it shouldn't be a problem.. that is why what I am trying to say is that FIBA should have these black and white rules (residency OR number of playing years in the home country OR parents birth certificates or any legal document regarding parents citizenhip).. so if these aren't met then wala na.. no more exemption.. because i think these can already cover all bases.. kung wala ka ni isa sa mga qualifications na un, then hindi talaga pwede period..NBTC- Team New Zealand - Camp David: vision "To provide a basketball Pathway for Filipino Kids in NZ while building men of character and leadership. I can do all things ...
https://www.facebook.com/teamNZBasketball/
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Originally posted by analyzed View PostBasically in short FIBA message is : Pringle does not meet the requirments to get exception for eligibility (period) , you have the right however to make an appeal and provide additional documents, note an appeal does not guarantee decision will be changed.
SBP can try again next year,just keep sending Pringle to SEA GAMES,Jones Cup,Asian Games and whatever other international games,that the PBA would let him to.This to show that Pringle is a willing participant as an active member of the Philippine National Team.Year after year appeal until he meets the requirement,there's no harm in trying.
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Originally posted by TurboCharger View PostThese appeals are part of long term strategies of SBP. It is obvious from the start that Pringle's case is shoot to the moon. Yet they are doing it for two major things. Keep alive the lines of communication and discussion regarding exception, and most important of all gain information/ experience in tackling these issues and at the same time kind of get a feel on how FIBA (in this case the current Sec-Gen) reacts to it.The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters.
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- the number of years during which the player has lived in the country, for the national team of which he wishes to play;
- the number of seasons during which the player has participated in domestic competitions in the country of the national team for which he wishes to play;
- any other criteria capable of establishing a significant link between the player and the country, for the national team of which he wishes to play.
It's good someone posted factors to consider, I challenge you guys use it to compare Greg and Pringle case and see if decision is correct. So as not to be personal imagine to be Japanese players and not Filipinos, so you're objective
1. # of years lived in country ( please not as Sec Gen mentioned - development years is a priority)- Greg- all of college, and all his pro years from graduating from college to present ( 11 yrs or so), Pringle - college overseas, 1st five years outside the Philippines as a pro
2. domestic competition as a player, - same as above
3. significant link - player to country- Greg got his passport at 17 years old! , Pringle got it in his late 20's , now tell me if that isn't a significant difference ( ang layu)- How many times has Greg played for Philippines ? Gilas 1, how about Pringle?
Greg claims to visit regularly as a child in fact he says he was baptised in the Philippines raw? Greg says his immediate family moved to the Phil? how about Pringle did his family move? Greg is Philippine Educated (Ateneo) , Pringle?
Ok now any sensible person , you be the judge , doesn't it make clear sense?Last edited by analyzed; 09-12-2018, 06:40 AM.NBTC- Team New Zealand - Camp David: vision "To provide a basketball Pathway for Filipino Kids in NZ while building men of character and leadership. I can do all things ...
https://www.facebook.com/teamNZBasketball/
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