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Thread: Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. IV

  1. #8881
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    6-foot-4/6-foot-5 point guards in Phi basketball would be quite unrealistic in the next say 5 to 6 years. I would like to make a much more realistic & reasonable approach. Like 6-foot-1/6-foot-2 point guards becoming more common in Philippine basketball in years to come
    Yes I think 6 2 for guards similar to the 15 Japanese guards in NCAA US is more realistic.
    The thing is we have to start with the right material, we already failed if our top 24 in the NBTC NCAA as an example has zero players of the right height for their position. (tapos na pag ganoon)

  2. #8882
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    [QUOTE=Brown Bones;1288559]Because you always jump from 1 argument to another and you were already called out for it.

    Development is another thing na pinasok mo.

    SBP mandate must be for the total improvement of Philippine basketball internationaly and I think the PBA should follow suit if not they will be stuck in their development of players pang entertainment lang.

    Bunot system is just a temporary solution. If the SBP will continue to rely on the PBA we will only get moral victories because we know the current priority is not Gilas.




    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    the tone and content of the post is exactly the constructive response i was hoping for, it starts with recognizing our shortfalls in development compared to our rivals , which is quite clear
    Problem is SBP is still subservient to PBA knowing PBA has the best players in the land and one way or the other SBP will still need PBA, so SBP dont want to brun bridges with PBA. Last 2016 there was a move to hold the Cadeta of 2016 in the amateur ranks for several years like with Gilas 1..But PBA as well as its boards were up in arms kasi saan daw sila kukuha ng young blood thus Cadets draft... Fast forward to 2019, the Cadets of 2016, (Pogoy, Wright, Kiefer, Perez, Troy) forms the bulk of the Gilas pool for World Cup... Other 2016 Cadets would have been Parks, Ferrer and Belo. Pero kulang pa rin SBP still needs reinforcement from PBA pero MVP teams and NP can cover the need of a big(Blatche plus MVP guys Erram, Almazan and favorite Belga) can complete the pool...

  3. #8883
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Yes I think 6 2 for guards similar to the 15 Japanese guards in NCAA US is more realistic.
    The thing is we have to start with the right material, we already failed if our top 24 in the NBTC NCAA as an example has zero players of the right height for their position. (tapos na pag ganoon)
    I am curious. Who are these 15 Japanese guards in NCAA US today that are 6'2" and plays PG?

  4. #8884
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    be carefull what you ask, while Japan has produced i think only 3 Official ( reg season NBA players) correct me if wrong, the purpose of the discussion is to look at output and as i said there are other metrics , such as Div 1 players...
    Now look at this list of 42 Japan born players who played in US colleges , 42 !

    https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/b...tries/64/Japan

    See the difference ! Not far behind in output, are you serious. so how many homegrown players have we in Div 1 , 2 ? so 42 compared to 2, how's that not far behind? and note a number of the Japanese div 1 players are significant contributors to their teams not bench warmers like Japs or Kobe..

    BTW if you look at the list 15 players are listed as guards 6 2" and above. If you understand basketball, you know the significance of this. It will be far fetch for you to produce a list of 15 players homegrown in the Phil who are listed as " real guards" ( not Chan type who are really forwards) that are 6'2.. The evidence is glaring that they Japan is simply producing players of the right height for position to be considered for Div 1, we simply are not... or at least not at the rate they do... ( 20 x more div 1)

    Looking forward to seeing the excuses again this time.. this has to stop parating meron excuse ... kahit tambak na sa output... (20x)
    Maybe SBP can take a look the process of recruitment on how our high school talents get scholarship to a UAAP/NCAA school or ask why Fil-for high school ballers from Australia, New Zealand or even the US would rather choose to play college ball in the Philippines. I've watch some youth games between the Philippines and Japan and the talent that our young players are at par or even better than some of Japan's young players they played against. If those Japanese kids gets recruited by US NCAA D1 school, I'm sure some of our young talents will surely be recruited if they tried but the problem is they just want to stay in the Philippines. God knows why.

    Maybe there is something going on that we don't know on why all these blue chip Pinoy ballers would rather stay in the country rather than chase that NBA dream.

  5. #8885
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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    I am curious. Who are these 15 Japanese guards in NCAA US today that are 6'2" and plays PG?
    Not necessarily PG, just listed as guards the list is the link above, and they're not all current college players.
    While obviously it's not absolute thing that they're all bigger, the rate of perimeter oriented players for a certain height (6'2 and above) is higher. This is forseeing what a player's s height has to be to be reasonably competitive internationally
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  6. #8886
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    Fadski, what you have to realize is that many countries Japan and New Zealand included do not have competitive serious basketball in college. Especially not like the semi pro nature of the UAAP. Therefore the normal pathway of many in NZ and Japan if they want a paid scholarship as well as living expenses covered while playing basketball is US NCAA. While in the Philippines college teams have already planned their pathway to their school even in early high school. Now here is how that impacts development. The Japanese high school kid who stands 6 2ish already knows for him to even have a chance of playing in the US he has to play exclusively guard or PG. While a 6 2 Pinoy kid may be asked to even be their high school big man to win more games.. to bring glory to their school. See the significant difference

  7. #8887
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    ^There's 6'2 Chikara Tanaka who's now playing in IMG who was born in 2002. He's part of their Team B pool for the Jones cup but didn't make the cut. In comparison, we have 2002 born Forthsky Padrigao who will most likely be playing in the UAAP juniors until he's 19.

    Their u16 team this year will have 6'5 wing Ibu Yamazaki who I believe plays for Meisei High School, same school as Hachimura.

    Quote Originally Posted by sajubeads View Post
    Problem is SBP is still subservient to PBA knowing PBA has the best players in the land and one way or the other SBP will still need PBA, so SBP dont want to brun bridges with PBA. Last 2016 there was a move to hold the Cadeta of 2016 in the amateur ranks for several years like with Gilas 1
    That's not a reason for the sbp not to establish a youth program with the goal of producing world class talent at the world youth level and eventually for the men's team. As for reusing the Gilas 1 formula, I'd rather see a program where we train youth players to be recruited to play for eiher the NBA Global Academy, a good NCAA college program or club ball in Europe. That gives them a bigger chance of landing a pro contract overseas where they'll be regularly competing at a level that is comparable to what you'll see in FIBA Tournaments. That playing experience will carry over when they suit up for the NT.

    That type of program will most probably be more economical and sustainable compared to spending millions naturalizing former NBA players, trying to pass off ineligible part pinoy NBA players as eligible or giving 3 year contracts to a team made of local college players who are in their early to mid 20s.
    Last edited by c_d; 08-06-2019 at 06:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c_d View Post
    ^There's 6'2 Chikara Tanaka who's now playing in IMG who was born in 2002. He's part of their Team B pool for the Jones cup but didn't make the cut. In comparison, we have 2002 born Forthsky Padrigao who will most likely be playing in the UAAP juniors until he's 19.

    Their u16 team this year will have 6'5 wing Ibu Yamazaki who I believe plays for Meisei High School, same school as Hachimura.


    That's not a reason for the sbp not to establish a youth program with the goal of producing world class talent at the world youth level and eventually for the men's team. As for reusing the Gilas 1 formula, I'd rather see a program where we train youth players to be recruited to play for eiher the NBA Global Academy, a good NCAA college program or club ball in Europe.
    And the Philippines sent a club team(Mighty Sports)created only for that tournament(william Jones Cup).lol That's basketball development of the Philippines for future FIBA competition. And member of Cadets are busy with their college team preparing for the UAAP and NCAA while cadets in PBA are busy playing for their mother club(on-going Commisioner's Cup).

  9. #8889
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Yes I think 6 2 for guards similar to the 15 Japanese guards in NCAA US is more realistic.
    The thing is we have to start with the right material, we already failed if our top 24 in the NBTC NCAA as an example has zero players of the right height for their position. (tapos na pag ganoon)
    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Not necessarily PG, just listed as guards the list is the link above, and they're not all current college players.
    While obviously it's not absolute thing that they're all bigger, the rate of perimeter oriented players for a certain height (6'2 and above) is higher. This is forseeing what a player's s height has to be to be reasonably competitive internationally
    (edit I saw the list)

    Firstly, you say "in NCAA US" unless there is another US NCAA, this pertains to college not high school. Unless you have a link of Japanese with formal US NCAA invites.

    Secondly, we are talking of PG with 6'2" not SG or other guard position.

    Thirdly, in your list how many of them went to Japan High School like Rui to be called homegrown?

  10. #8890
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_d View Post
    ^There's 6'2 Chikara Tanaka who's now playing in IMG who was born in 2002. He's part of their Team B pool for the Jones cup but didn't make the cut. In comparison, we have 2002 born Forthsky Padrigao who will most likely be playing in the UAAP juniors until he's 19.

    Their u16 team this year will have 6'5 wing Ibu Yamazaki who I believe plays for Meisei High School, same school as Hachimura. Ang iniisip ng schools ay magchampion sila sa liga nila and not player development or future employment ng mga bata...


    That's not a reason for the sbp not to establish a youth program with the goal of producing world class talent at the world youth level and eventually for the men's team. As for reusing the Gilas 1 formula, I'd rather see a program where we train youth players to be recruited to play for eiher the NBA Global Academy, a good NCAA college program or club ball in Europe. That gives them a bigger chance of landing a pro contract overseas where they'll be regularly competing at a level that is comparable to what you'll see in FIBA Tournaments. That playing experience will carry over when they suit up for the NT.
    Of course SChools wont release their playere to Batang Gilas, pano na ang dream nilang NCAA at UAAP championships if the players will be recruited by US Academies or US NCAA schools...

  11. #8891
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_d View Post
    ^There's 6'2 Chikara Tanaka who's now playing in IMG who was born in 2002. He's part of their Team B pool for the Jones cup but didn't make the cut. In comparison, we have 2002 born Forthsky Padrigao who will most likely be playing in the UAAP juniors until he's 19.

    Their u16 team this year will have 6'5 wing Ibu Yamazaki who I believe plays for Meisei High School, same school as Hachimura.


    That's not a reason for the sbp not to establish a youth program with the goal of producing world class talent at the world youth level and eventually for the men's team. As for reusing the Gilas 1 formula, I'd rather see a program where we train youth players to be recruited to play for eiher the NBA Global Academy, a good NCAA college program or club ball in Europe.
    I do not claim to know the players in Japan, but the 2 names you mentioned is just an example of the rate of them producing players of height in the perimeter.
    I know anytime I mention NZ people wil find it offensive, but so you get the context of why I see a significant disparity in youth players, the competition my son plays in is in the city of Wellington (population 500k), we have the following in our competition 15 year old 6 8 small Forward Tafaro, 6 7 SF Ben, 6'6 SF Malacai, 6 4 wing Zeke., that number multiplies by 5 if you account for the rest of the country. it is really a disadvantage if other players of that height of that many who play the wing position exclusively or mainly in other countries, while the Philippines tall players 6 4 ish don't get the same exposure

  12. #8892
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Fadski, what you have to realize is that many countries Japan and New Zealand included do not have competitive serious basketball in college. Especially not like the semi pro nature of the UAAP. Therefore the normal pathway of many in NZ and Japan if they want a paid scholarship as well as living expenses covered while playing basketball is US NCAA. While in the Philippines college teams have already planned their pathway to their school even in early high school. Now here is how that impacts development. The Japanese high school kid who stands 6 2ish already knows for him to even have a chance of playing in the US he has to play exclusively guard or PG. While a 6 2 Pinoy kid may be asked to even be their high school big man to win more games.. to bring glory to their school. See the significant difference
    So the problem with our basketball is not entirely the PBA's fault, I think if SBP can do a similar rule to the US NCAA regarding the recruitment of high school players many of our best young talents would have a crack on that US NCAA D1 basketball.

    A talented young Pinoy baller mentality would be why would I go to the US, try my luck and risk everything, when I can stay in the country and play for a very popular school in the Philippine who would give me everything I want. That is why I commend what Kai, AJ Japeth and even Kobe did for their basketball career. Imagine if BRP stayed in the US I think he could have been our very 1st Philippine born player in the NBA. Too bad, but It was understandable what he did was for his father.

  13. #8893
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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    (edit I saw the list)

    Firstly, you say "in NCAA US" unless there is another US NCAA, this pertains to college not high school. Unless you have a link of Japanese with formal US NCAA invites.

    Secondly, we are talking of PG with 6'2" not SG or other guard position.
    Sorry goes back another page the list is the 42 Japanese born players who have played is US NCAA, yes of course college
    Most from Japan based high schools

    Oh you may talk about PG, I'm just referring to list listed as guard.. regardless it is quite glaring the number of tall players playing perimeter roles G or GF

    And obviously the number, 42
    While obviously there are reasons why we don't go to US NCAA, the desparity is significant and the length per position

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Sorry goes back another page the list is the 42 Japanese born players who have played is US NCAA, yes of course college
    Most from Japan based high schools

    Oh you may talk about PG, I'm just referring to list listed as guard.. regardless it is quite glaring the number of tall players playing perimeter roles G or GF

    And obviously the number, 42
    While obviously there are reasons why we don't go to US NCAA, the desparity is significant and the length per position
    Firstly who are 15 japanese players in current US NCAA?

    Secondly the post you are replying to clearly said PG for 6'1" to 6'2" not any other guards position. And if you look at the list all PG are below 6'0"

    Thirdly how many of them learn to play basketball in Japan or went to Japan High School to be consider home grown. If they went to US high school then I believe there are more than 50 Fil-Fors NCAA players which neglect your narrative. For example, Guards Matsui and Taishi were teammates at Montrose Christian High School in Rockville, Maryland

    Fourth, most of them are mix race just a note. Okinawa is where a US Base located.

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Yes I think 6 2 for guards similar to the 15 Japanese guards in NCAA US is more realistic.
    The thing is we have to start with the right material, we already failed if our top 24 in the NBTC NCAA as an example has zero players of the right height for their position. (tapos na pag ganoon)
    The thing is, as far Asian basketball is concerned, its really rare for any Asian country having 6-foot-4/6-foot-5 point guards. Only China's Gou Ailun who is around 6-foot-3 & Lebanon's Wael Arakji who is listed as 6-foot-4 could be considered "tall" point guards. The point guards of South Korea, Iran, Jordan, Kazakhstan are in the 6 feet flat to 6-foot-2 height range. Japan's star point guard Yuki Togashi is only around 5-foot-8/5-foot-9. Former Iran National team point guard Mahdi Kamrani is barely 6 feet.

    The point here is that by having 6-foot-0 to 6-foot-2 point guards, hindi na tayo dihado against our opponents' point guard height-wise, at least in Asian basketball.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    The thing is, as far Asian basketball is concerned, its really rare for any Asian country having 6-foot-4/6-foot-5 point guards. Only China's Gou Ailun who is around 6-foot-3 & Lebanon's Wael Arakji who is listed as 6-foot-4 could be considered "tall" point guards. The point guards of South Korea, Iran, Jordan, Kazakhstan are in the 6 feet flat to 6-foot-2 height range. Japan's star point guard Yuki Togashi is only around 5-foot-8/5-foot-9. Former Iran National team point guard Mahdi Kamrani is barely 6 feet.

    The point here is that by having 6-foot-0 to 6-foot-2 point guards, hindi na tayo dihado against our opponents' point guard height-wise, at least in Asian basketball.
    Problem is 6-0 are SG, and 6-2 arw SF in the UAAP and NCAA... Si Akin Ito nga 5-10SF....

  17. #8897
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    Oh yes problem isn't just the PBA, my focus is more high school and college age development (homegrown programs) that's where problem is mainly
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  18. #8898
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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    Firstly who are 15 japanese players in current US NCAA?

    Secondly the post you are replying to clearly said PG for 6'1" to 6'2" not any other guards position. And if you look at the list all PG are below 6'0"

    Thirdly how many of them learn to play basketball in Japan or went to Japan High School to be consider home grown. If they went to US high school then I believe there are more than 50 Fil-Fors NCAA players which neglect your narrative. For example, Guards Matsui and Taishi were teammates at Montrose Christian High School in Rockville, Maryland

    Fourth, most of them are mix race just a note. Okinawa is where a US Base located.
    It's immaterial really what the exact number is of players per hight per position or how many played high school in the US, (they're listed as Japanese Nationals born in Japan therefor FiBA eligible).

    If you still can't see disparity in homegrown developed players compared to our Asian rivals, that's up to you to be in denial, just don't be suprise at the rate of Div 1, NBA summer league and NBA regular players coming from these countries in the next couple of years compared to the Philippines. People don't need to know the exact number to see the obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Oh yes problem isn't just the PBA, my focus is more high school and college age development (homegrown programs) that's where problem is mainly
    So is Japan way better in producing NCAA D1 players than Philippines? How many Japanese went to Japan High School and directly when to NCAA D1.

  20. #8900
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    I don't know I'm not from Japan, but their development output regardless of where these eligible players were trained is obviously churning out more

    We do know their 3 NBA players (regular season) spent time in Japanese high schools
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