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Thread: Nikola Jokic

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    At his current age his numbers are almost identical to both Nowitzki and Pau at the same point of their careers (22 years of age at end of season). 23 years old is where they made a big jump in their game and I think if you see the way he is playing he is on the way to doing the same. I don't know if he can ultimately accomplish what they did but the potential is there. As for Marc Gasol I think he is highly overrated. A good player but not on the level of his brother or Nowitzki.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    At his current age his numbers are almost identical to both Nowitzki and Pau at the same point of their careers (22 years of age at end of season). 23 years old is where they made a big jump in their game and I think if you see the way he is playing he is on the way to doing the same. I don't know if he can ultimately accomplish what they did but the potential is there. As for Marc Gasol I think he is highly overrated. A good player but not on the level of his brother or Nowitzki.
    It's important to note that his numbers are similar overall to Pau or Nowitzki, but keep in mind that he is doing it in playing 10 minutes less per game His per 36 numbers are ungodly
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    It's important to note that his numbers are similar overall to Pau or Nowitzki, but keep in mind that he is doing it in playing 10 minutes less per game His per 36 numbers are ungodly
    I agree but the playing time is on him. He is way too foul prone. He has to improve dramatically on that end and add another 7 or 8 minutes a game to his average playing time. I think that is the only thing holding him back from busting out big time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    It's important to note that his numbers are similar overall to Pau or Nowitzki, but keep in mind that he is doing it in playing 10 minutes less per game His per 36 numbers are ungodly
    well if he could play more he would play, but fatty one cant
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    I agree but the playing time is on him. He is way too foul prone. He has to improve dramatically on that end and add another 7 or 8 minutes a game to his average playing time. I think that is the only thing holding him back from busting out big time.

    Right now the fouls are the only thing holding him back, but he is very young and will figure it out. Poor coaching was what was holding him back at the start of the season.

    Jokic is likely the 3rd best European player in the world right now, only behind Giannis and Marc Gasol in my opinion. By this time next year Jokic will likely be the 2nd. Porzingis is his only competition, maybe Gobert if he keeps improving (but Gobert is limited somewhat).

    Those of you who think Marc Gasol is over rated don't watch the NBA enough. Marc is underrated if anything. He's been stuck his entire career on smallest market team in the NBA with the Memphis Grizzlies. I hope you all don't still think Tony Parker is a good player. Marc has been better than Pau and Dirk for many years now. Although I agree Dirk in his prime was better than than Marc in his prime, I don't think it is true with Pau. In fact, although a great player, I'd call Pau overrated as he spent most of his career with the Lakers - the highest profile team and market in the world. Add that to his FIBA heroics and his is easy to see his attraction to the crowd on this message board and casual NBA fans in the States. People who know the NBA, know how good Marc is. I suspect most of you are blinded by FIBA results with Pau/Marc. FIBA is a vastly different game with vastly different types of teammates and competition and not part of my consideration. I am talking NBA and certainly can concede that Pau has been a better player in FIBA.

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    Pau vs Marc is a long debate. Pau is a much more skilled player, which can overtake the game in some aspects and create very good mismatches in his prime, but he is also very, very prone to disappear in big games or in the longer stretches of time. Marc is just solid across the board, there isn't a single thing he can't do on the court. If we just look at the current ability (not potential, that is a whole another thing), he is My No. 1 center in NBA to put on my team. If I can put any 5 players on the court that I want, he would start for me at C.

    Potential is another thing altogether. Jokic has a higher ceiling than both Gasol brothers but will he get there. Let the time speak. It's not only about having a great year or two, but also maintaining excellence like Dirk for almost 2 decades.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    Right now the fouls are the only thing holding him back, but he is very young and will figure it out. Poor coaching was what was holding him back at the start of the season.

    Jokic is likely the 3rd best European player in the world right now, only behind Giannis and Marc Gasol in my opinion. By this time next year Jokic will likely be the 2nd. Porzingis is his only competition, maybe Gobert if he keeps improving (but Gobert is limited somewhat).

    Those of you who think Marc Gasol is over rated don't watch the NBA enough. Marc is underrated if anything. He's been stuck his entire career on smallest market team in the NBA with the Memphis Grizzlies. I hope you all don't still think Tony Parker is a good player. Marc has been better than Pau and Dirk for many years now. Although I agree Dirk in his prime was better than than Marc in his prime, I don't think it is true with Pau. In fact, although a great player, I'd call Pau overrated as he spent most of his career with the Lakers - the highest profile team and market in the world. Add that to his FIBA heroics and his is easy to see his attraction to the crowd on this message board and casual NBA fans in the States. People who know the NBA, know how good Marc is. I suspect most of you are blinded by FIBA results with Pau/Marc. FIBA is a vastly different game with vastly different types of teammates and competition and not part of my consideration. I am talking NBA and certainly can concede that Pau has been a better player in FIBA.
    I couldn't disagree more about the Gasols. At his best for a couple of years around 2009-2010 Pau was arguably the best big man in the world. He was the second best player on a multiple time NBA champion. A clear number two on a winner,
    I don't think Marc has ever been or could ever be that type of player. Solid but nit on that level. He could never score enough or dominate the boards like Pau a his best could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    Potential is another thing altogether. Jokic has a higher ceiling than both Gasol brothers but will he get there. Let the time speak. It's not only about having a great year or two, but also maintaining excellence like Dirk for almost 2 decades.
    How is Jokic having higher ceiling that Pau? Judging from 4 months stats? I mean it's way to soon to say. He's incredible passer - surely. But Divac wasn't better player than Pau f.e. I'm not saying his ceiling can't be higher, I'm just not sure how you evaluated because Jokic is nowhere as fast, agile and athletic as young Pau. More like chubby, fast food and beer friendly super talented magician. But people tend to forget too fast Pau also had absolutely complete offensive skill-set, a little bit less fancy than Jokic in terms of passing, but still close. Here's good reminder:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOEtYb2s_wM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    How is Jokic having higher ceiling that Pau? Judging from 4 months stats? I mean it's way to soon to say. He's incredible passer - surely. But Divac wasn't better player than Pau f.e. I'm not saying his ceiling can't be higher, I'm just not sure how you evaluated because Jokic is nowhere as fast, agile and athletic as young Pau. More like chubby, fast food and beer friendly super talented magician. But people tend to forget too fast Pau also had absolutely complete offensive skill-set, a little bit less fancy than Jokic in terms of passing, but still close. Here's good reminder:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOEtYb2s_wM
    Jokic is a better passer than Pau, that I will not even mention. His feeling for the game and movement is unmatched, I have never seen a big have that vision. Never. I was surprised, a lot as well. I never though he was that good. I have been watching him play for 2 years in NBa now, and it is scary. Basketball IQ is OFF the charts.

    Can Pau bring up the ball up the court? Handling, easy Jokic is a way better. He can create and shoot off the dribble. He is not an athlete but he is very smooth with the ball and he leads the fast break. Pau can't do that, nor was he ever able to do on a consistent basis every night. The shot is already better and more diverse than Pau. Tell me how was Pau's shot at 21? He can be a legitimate 40% 3pt shooter, and he will always be around 60% from the field. Pau is a career 51% from the field, which is not good at all for a big guy. He was a good volume scorer but never an efficient scorer. Jokic is already a more efficient scorer than Pau. Pau is a better rim protector and shot blocker, even though he was never a good defender. Jokic will never be a rim protector in a classic shot blocking sense. He is not as long or as athletic. His defense is much more going to be based on defensive positioning and forcing bad shots and passes. Of course, he is not helped by the worst defending perimeter in NBA either. Pau has a better defensive rebound presence, Jokic has a better feeling for offensive rebounds, due to his IQ. So this is what I am talking about potential. Again, I am always careful about potential. It means nothing. Pau proved it in a long, super successful career. Will Jokic do it? I don't know, let's see. He has the toolbox that is supreme for his position and modern game.

    Yes I agree, he is not as athletic and he will never be. But that is something that can be improved. Keep in mind, that HE WAS a fast food junkie! The kid lost 20kg in first training camp last year, he improved his body again this year. In a few years he will be more powerful, which is much more important for his game. He needs to be able to handle a bigger guy without fouls (this is the main reason for his foul troubles). Still things that he has cannot be trained or coached to that level. You can improve your skillset but still never have that IQ, vision and touch that he has naturally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    Pau vs Marc is a long debate. Pau is a much more skilled player, which can overtake the game in some aspects and create very good mismatches in his prime, but he is also very, very prone to disappear in big games or in the longer stretches of time. Marc is just solid across the board, there isn't a single thing he can't do on the court. If we just look at the current ability (not potential, that is a whole another thing), he is My No. 1 center in NBA to put on my team. If I can put any 5 players on the court that I want, he would start for me at C.

    Potential is another thing altogether. Jokic has a higher ceiling than both Gasol brothers but will he get there. Let the time speak. It's not only about having a great year or two, but also maintaining excellence like Dirk for almost 2 decades.
    So for you Jokic will be minimum the best at his position in the NBA ( you said Marc is the best center ) . That's funny in the Doncic thread you didn't like the hype about him, but Jokic had two great months in the NBA and you already considered about him a better player long term than the Gasol bros lol. ( double standard?)
    Do you really remember Pau at 21? The guy was a beast , already a euroleague star, led Spain to a bronze medal at the 2001 Eurobasket ( 31 points in the bronze medal game) , made the All star team.
    We'we all seen Nikola during the Olympics, that was not even close...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cilom View Post
    So for you Jokic will be minimum the best at his position in the NBA ( you said Marc is the best center ) . That's funny in the Doncic thread you didn't like the hype about him, but Jokic had two great months in the NBA and you already considered about him a better player long term than the Gasol bros lol. ( double standard?)
    Do you really remember Pau at 21? The guy was a beast , already a euroleague star, led Spain to a bronze medal at the 2001 Eurobasket ( 31 points in the bronze medal game) , made the All star team.
    We'we all seen Nikola during the Olympics, that was not even close...
    Please go back and read my posts. I didn't question Luka's potential BUT NBA's willingness to give him a chance!

    Also you didn't seem to read a single thing there. I said NBA is discriminating in terms of Euro guards. Big men are a different story, it has been like that for 30 years now. A big guy they will always welcome, even if he is not that skilled. Fucking Zaza is a legitimate NBA starter.

    Also I didn't say that AT MINIMUM Jokic will be better than Gasol's. Just that he has a higher upside. Is he a better player now? No. Will he be, I don't know dude. That's up to him!

    I do remember Pau at 21. They have a different road to glory. Jokic was held back from EL on purpose and entered a year early into NBA draft to get him in a right team. He would've been a lottery pick a year later. Again all that means nothing, since you don't actually read what I type. I said potential, not that he will ever get there. HE needs to prove it. And he will be given a chance. Luka might not be given a chance like that...
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    Well I disagree, you said he has a higher ceiling than Gasol's bros I just find it ridiculous , the guy played two great months to me that's not enough.
    Look Marc was not great at all at 21 , the guy was even nicknamed " Man boobs " by some NBA scouts. So to me that's just very premature to consider him a better prospect long term than the Gasols.
    Especially when Pau is one of the all time greats ( it's even a bit direspectful ) .

    For Luka I'm just joking it's a bit of provocation and I somewhat agree with your opinion about NBA's treatment of Euros guards when they're not athletic freak

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    Situation with Jokić is very simple. How far will he go depends only on his ambition, health and willingness to dedicate himself to his craft. From what I’ve seen, he has a very healthy environment around him, a superb family, especially his brothers who guide him and take care about every nuance of his career.

    Right now, his offense is fire. You can take his passing lanes away, but he will flat out murder you from mid-range or just spin around you if defenders want to go bone-to-bone with him. Or just take you to school in the post. Having said that it’s easy to see that his lack of athleticism doesn’t hurt him one bit on offensive end. He is shooting 68% from restricted area and 64% from non restricted paint area. Those 2 aspects combined make him the most lethal finisher from the paint in the NBA. That tells a lot about his touch (short shots, floaters, hooks..) having in mind that he rarely dunks. And when you add his ridiculous mid range shooting, you have a player that doesn’t rely on athleticism one bit and someone who can play that way until 40 y.o.

    As for deficiencies, right now it’s lack of strength and inability to stay away from stupid backcourt fouls that he commits out of frustration. His fouling problems don’t come from bad positioning or bad defensive awareness but rather from really inexplicable backcourt fouls, out of frustration fouls due to missed shots, turnovers or missed foul calls in his favor. He will correct it with time. Also, not really worried about his lack of athleticism. The key will be to work on his body, there is a vast room for improvement. Actually, his defense could resemble younger Gasol’s. When Marc entered the NBA, he was lost in outer space defensively, only to become elite defender couple of years later. Jokić is just as slow footed and unathletic as Marc is, and just as smart as Marc is. There are a lot of similarities regarding their physical development, and Jokić could learn a lot by watching what Marc does on defensive end. He may not be that good defensively, but he can surely be very effective and a plus defender for years to come. His defensive fundamentals are great, but will emerge and pass the eye test once he gets stronger. Eventually, with his offensive skill set, that would make him top 10 players in the league, a superstar stud. His offense resembles Pau’s, but I would say that Jokić is Jokić, as unique as you can get. If we want to dissect his game completely, then I would say that his hands and bank shots are Duncan-esque, feel and touch around basket Gasol-esque, mid range shooting Dirk-esque, vision..?? That’s his thing. No comparison there, no big has ever displayed that kind of vision and passing skills.

    Don’t really like talking about ceilings, upsides and that stuff, a lot of factors are important to reach a superstar level, not only skill set. But Jokić has something that is written in superstars' genes - making everyone around him better. That's an ultimate superstars' skill.

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    What a performance by Jokic tonight in New York City. Career high 41 points might open some eyes. Outplayed the more heralded Porzingis and did it in the media capital. I hope it opens some eyes to many Americans not as familiar with the incredible talent and potential that he has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    What a performance by Jokic tonight in New York City. Career high 41 points might open some eyes. Outplayed the more heralded Porzingis and did it in the media capital. I hope it opens some eyes to many Americans not as familiar with the incredible talent and potential that he has.
    probably tonight, every nyk fan wished they had picked Jokic instead of Porzingis, Porzingis is a good player, Jokic is something different
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    This guy is fucking genius on whole new level. I can only copare him with Lary Bird IQ on court
    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

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    Gangbanga from Palanga!

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    He is a complete offensive player, there is nothing to add there, he can face up , post up, make plays for his teammates, unreal feel for the game.
    UZEO SI TROFEJ MACVANE MACVANE MACVANE!!!

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    27p 13rbd 4as 2 blocks 5turnovers, you could say he had a bad game
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    What a performance by Jokic tonight in New York City. Career high 41 points might open some eyes. Outplayed the more heralded Porzingis and did it in the media capital. I hope it opens some eyes to many Americans not as familiar with the incredible talent and potential that he has.
    It is funny - I went with a few friends to the Lakers/Nuggets game about a month ago. I told them they are going to watch what will soon be the best center in the NBA and top 10 player in the world. They didn't know who I was talking about and didnt know much of Jokic when I pointed him out.

    But they believed me about halfway into the game.

    It seems among my friends it is only those of us that play fantasy basketball with passion know how good Jokic is. I read many Fantasy Bball experts during the preseason who had good evidence that Jokic had top 15 potential this season if it all work out right.

    Denver is not the most high profile team so that doesn't help. If he played for the Lakers they league would be losing their minds like they did for Porzingis last year.

    For those saying he has only been doing this for 2 months. His per 36 stat were insane last year and as well at the start of this season but he was completely misused. It was obvious to many - that once Mike Malone figured out to have Jokic only play center only (not try to have him on the floor at the same time with the mentally unstable Nurkic) that Jokic would be unleashed. He was awesome in spots last year and early this year, but he was completely misused by Coach Malone. Congrats to Malone by the way, for figuring this out. There are some really bad NBA coaches that could have really screwed this up.

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