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Thread: 2016 U16 European Championship

  1. #141
    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnimgood View Post
    İ like Spanish basketball organization and all of those players (doesnt matter skin colour) their great organizations products. They fully deserve respect. but that Garuba kid (i really liked his game-surely Nba material) really cant be 2002 born. İf 2000 or 01 born no problem but if hes not u16 ? And İbaka listed 26 but he's surely over 30.
    I understand your point and I respect it. Could be.

  2. #142
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiHBasket View Post

    It was a joke anyway, why so serious
    Look, if you like telling not so funny jokes ,that is fine . But you should also be aware that people you address your jokes to might as well " joke " back .
    And when they do , look at you ,all of the sudden you are so serious and sort of gobsmacked . How dare they ? We do .

  3. #143
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    The Serge Ibaka case is particularly troubling. I understand that there's a FIBA prohibition against players switching to any other national team once they have played on a national team including at the Youth level. The prohibition exists precisely to prevent bigger, richer countries from poaching players from poorer countries. Yet Ibaka was "discovered" by Spanish scout Gallego while Ibaka was playing for the Republic of the Congo team at the 2006 U18 championship! So how could Ibaka end up playing on the Spanish national team?
    That is how it works in real life . You have rules only for them rules to get bend by "richer nations ".

  4. #144
    Senior Member BiHBasket's Avatar
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    Top prospects by Draft Express:
    http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...g-Reports-5648

    But this sentence in a part about Biberovic: "Bosnia barely escaped relegation with a win over Estonia"

  5. #145
    Senior Member turk-jugoslav's Avatar
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    As for Garuba, there are always overgrown kids who dominates the game thanks to big and mature body at youth level. Kanter, Musli, Karnowski, Koufos are very good examples. They are still good player but not superstar as they promised in the past. This is Dejavu, every year I see the same speculations about the ages of young fellas due to physichal dominance but nothing changes. People are not tired of speaking a lot about the same bullshits.

  6. #146
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1ou View Post
    Can you reply to this?Turkish youth teams have been atop for a remarkably big amount of time.U16,17,18 etc all of them winning medals.However,firstly it has not been translated too good performances by the senior team(at least until now) and secondly most of them don't see the court in their clubs and finally are lost at some Eurocup teams.(Sipahi f.e).Coaches don't trust them.Partially it has to do with the "obsession" of clubs like Efes and Fener to win the EL and it's really difficult for them to find playing time there.To your opinion which are the other reason Turkish NT has not been successful,despite all that talent coming from the youths?
    It's a focus on team results and medals. Turkish teams consistently employ different types of zone defenses in youth competitions, which is disaster for development of youngsters. They are focusing and gameplanning opponents like it's a Euroleague game. That is not a problem if you want youth level medals but this is a surefire disaster for long term development of those kids, since they get turned into role players at a VERY VERY young age, when they should be completing their skillsets. Anyone who makes a 15-year sold a Stretch 4 because he can shoot and is tall, is a fucking disaster of a coach (not saying that Turks did this this tournament, just giving an example).

    This is also the reason why the actual transfer of these talents to the first teams is non-existent. Combine it that they don't really play in the clubs. It's game over...

  7. #147
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    That's a good point, CoachZ, but I'm wondering how the alternative can be. You just tell the kids to go ahead and just display their skills?

    There was an internal discussion about this some years ago: should our priority in youth competitions be the medals or skill development? Some people argued that skills can be developed over time, but the winning mentality can only be obtained by getting medals. I believe we had the luxury of having both in some generations; skill and mentality.

    Moreover, I think it's early to jump to the conclusion that Turkish prospects are not being converted to senior level. There is a significant improvement in medals after 2010, and those guys are just hitting 22-24 years of age. Yes, there are no established names among them yet except for Kanter and Osman, but I think we should re-visit this claim in 2-3 years when Korkmaz, Guven, Arar, Gecim, Yurtseven, Ugurlu, Arslan, Taskiran, Ulubay, Kosut, Bitim get above 20-22 years old at least. There is a ton of talent here, and they're just coming. No need for eulogy yet.
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  8. #148
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    That's a good point, CoachZ, but I'm wondering how the alternative can be. You just tell the kids to go ahead and just display their skills?

    There was an internal discussion about this some years ago: should our priority in youth competitions be the medals or skill development? Some people argued that skills can be developed over time, but the winning mentality can only be obtained by getting medals. I believe we had the luxury of having both in some generations; skill and mentality.

    Moreover, I think it's early to jump to the conclusion that Turkish prospects are not being converted to senior level. There is a significant improvement in medals after 2010, and those guys are just hitting 22-24 years of age. Yes, there are no established names among them yet except for Kanter and Osman, but I think we should re-visit this claim in 2-3 years when Korkmaz, Guven, Arar, Gecim, Yurtseven, Ugurlu, Arslan, Taskiran, Ulubay, Kosut, Bitim get above 20-22 years old at least. There is a ton of talent here, and they're just coming. No need for eulogy yet.
    It was not a eulogy, just a current assessment of the situation. I have similar things AGAINST Serbian NT setup as well. In general here are some things I believe regarding developing kids:

    - Defensive gameplanning and zone defenses HAVE TO GO. All of Europe NEEDS to put emphasis on developing individual skills on defense. This is one huge gap that hasn't been narrowed AT ALL in the last 25 years since the introduction of Dream Team to international basketball. As a rule we are producing inferior defenders, hand grabbers and zoners since a very, very early age. It is much easier to play defense like that, but if you are a phenomenal individual defender then you can be flexible and play wherever you want. So focus on developing individual defensive skills for all the young ones. If they don't learn it by the time they are 19, they never will.

    - Focus on physical development! We are not approaching this in the correct way. So many of our bigs become stiffs, so many of our skill players become weaklings etc. etc. We need to do physical assessment and profiling of youth talents since entering them at pre teen age into basketball training. This doesn't mean exclude physically inferior talents BUT making a plan and progress route in terms of physical attributes for each individual player. The key is for all of them to reach their peak physical potential.

    - Stop with long camps and preparations of youth NT where they will be working in a system and gameplan to win medals and competitions. Or find a way to limit this. For example, none of the teams can meet for the NT competitions earlier than 2 weeks before big competitions. Let the kids develop in the clubs and work on their individual talents. Few weeks before the big competition is enough to let the kids know the system they will be playing in.

    - Stop with definitions of roles on the youth NT level. I can understand it at the U20 level a bit, or maybe U19. Everybody younger than that, as long as you are going to pidgeon-hole kids into roles so you can win a medal, you are not doing your job as a youth coach. Kids need to be developing all of their skills and eliminating deficiencies in their game. Every player should be mapped and weaknesses and strengths identified and then a development plan for skills needs to be implemented by the club and NT youth setup. Giving up on a 17 year old kid to learn how to shoot, defend, rebound, hit FTs is a CRIME!.

    - Introduce a licensing system for youth players that will make incentives to play them. Meaning, teams cannot register these young guys on their roster and register them for national competition and then just stash them and don't play them. For example a kid can be registered for the senior competition by Efes, unless he plays that year or dresses for a certain number of games, next year he will not be able to be registered by that club. This will make teams loan players out to weaker leagues to play and develop and many players will leave clubs that don't. Only factor can be injuries, that teams get an exemption.

    Those are some key points that need to be addressed in order to develop kids for modern basketball. The key of youth setup is to produce senior level talents that will compete for their NT and clubs. Medals at age 16 are worth as much as a hotdog...

    EDIT: This doesn't mean not try to win medals and give up on developing a winning mentality, just that this has to be SECONDARY goal after the long term good of kids.
    Last edited by CoachZ; 08-23-2016 at 01:34 PM.

  9. #149
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Thank you, CoachZ. Valuable insight.

    The licensing system, combined with your earlier suggestion about motivating youngsters to go abroad to play in lower level senior leagues, sound like very good ideas to me (even if it did not really work previously in the cases of Emre Bayav, Izzet Turkyilmaz, Dusan Gavrilovic, etc.)
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  10. #150
    Senior Member serbianhoops's Avatar
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    Without taking in account its NBA level centers Zizic and Zubac, Croatia will have an ultra-talented all-around frontcourt in the upcoming years with Saric, Bender and Samanic who are all athletic and versatile enough to play every frontcourt position (C/PF/SF).

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher View Post
    Fucking shit, overgrown negro was making the difference all the game, but in the last seconds we managed to take a lead by 1 point, but then incredible 3pt shot by Spaniard...Poor kids...
    Please explain to me again how this comment is not racist.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by serbianhoops View Post
    Without taking in account its NBA level centers Zizic and Zubac, Croatia will have an ultra-talented all-around frontcourt in the upcoming years with Saric, Bender and Samanic who are all athletic and versatile enough to play every frontcourt position (C/PF/SF).
    Serbia can counter them with Jokic, Milutinov ,Ristic ,Petrusev, Koprivica,Pokusevski ,Popovic ,Musikic, Markovic etc. I am not high on Bender at all, look to me like the bust, shooting is so inconsistent, not a good rebounder etc. Petrusev have shoved more than Samanic in Los Angeles in limited playing time. Great basketball iq , in the mold of Jokic, good athlete too.
    Last edited by Srle; 02-18-2018 at 06:13 PM.
    UZEO SI TROFEJ MACVANE MACVANE MACVANE!!!

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