2016-17 season wil start with only 16 teams

[Oly_fan]

Basketball is for fun. Logically, in this kind of competition there should be the variety and polyphony among basketball fans. I do want to see more teams with huge fan base of course. Every year 20 million Beşiktaş fans become distanced towards basketball. Do you know what will happen if you pull these fans into the basketball? Basketball grows. Maybe in short term, this growth doesn't transmit as revenue to clubs but in long term, since the fan base is expanded, the clubs will generate more revenue from TV rights let's say the first thing that spring to my mind. I just gave the example of Beşiktaş but I can tell you any other 10 teams with huge fan base. Beside the fan base, representation of countries makes sense too. Let's imagine Zalgiris is out of top tier European competition for a while. You simply lose the attraction from Lithuania if something like that happens. I also see this move as the threat in front of basketball countries. Serbia, Slovenia, Croatia and even Lithuania won't have a chance to send second team to this competition. That's just pathetic. That's pure monopoly. Only Turkish, Greek, Russian, Spanish and Italian team or teams are here and every year we will see the same story here. 100th game between Fenerbahçe Ülker and Barcelona in five years period. How exciting WOW!

I won't tell anything about football since I don't have much knowledge on it but popular sport doesn't mean that the country is successful at it that we are on the same line. Even though Poland doesn't see basketball as the popular sport, they still have an average team in basketball when they are not represented bu any team in football. That can be called as success. So no need to break the success line of a country by decreasing the number of teams.

It is Besiktas' basketball club's job to pull its fans closer. Not Euroleague's job to give Besiktas an A license when Besiktas isn't at that level yet.
Bayern also has many fans and they're actually a pretty decent team, they're not getting an A license either. And imagine if they were going to give a Manchester United Basketball Club an A license without any kind of investment beforehand, simply to try and pull its fans.

What could pull fans and what will keep the current fans here is a good competition.

Serbia, Slovenia, Croatia and even Lithuania won't have a chance to send second team to this competition. That's just pathetic. That's pure monopoly. Only Turkish, Greek, Russian, Spanish and Italian team or teams are here and every year we will see the same story here. 100th game between Fenerbahçe Ülker and Barcelona in five years period. How exciting WOW!

I won't tell anything about football since I don't have much knowledge on it but popular sport doesn't mean that the country is successful at it that we are on the same line. Even though Poland doesn't see basketball as the popular sport, they still have an average team in basketball when they are not represented bu any team in football. That can be called as success. So no need to break the success line of a country by decreasing the number of teams.

Zielona Gora is not average in the current euroleague format. They're traditionally among the top candidates to get out immediately. It's not a success because nothing tells me they won their place, I don't think their previous appearances justify their spot. They're just there in the regular season, end up with something like 2-8 and carry on in the Eurocup anyway. I'm not saying this to offend any team of course but the differences in strength among some clubs are pretty big.

Greece only has one team in the UEFA champions league because that's how many teams we can have, even if Spain has 4. Spain has 4 teams that can all be competitive whereas if Greece sent a second team they'd be cannon fodder. Of course other national leagues, like Poland, don't even have that. How could any league be guaranteed more spots than it deserves simply for diversity?

The problem with A licenses is that they're mostly inflexible. If a league were to grow stronger, we wouldn't get more teams from there and that's wrong. That's why we need coefficients in some manner.
But instead of asking that, some fans want an even more extreme version of the A licenses where their team is guaranteed a spot no matter how weak it might be.
I don't think that's either doable or something we should want.

[str8diah]

P.S. Teams have to be renamed obviously. Their current names are so retrograde and boring. For example, Fenerbahce would be Istanbul Flying Janissaries and Real Madrid's new name would be San Miguel (TM) Drunk Toreros.

I was reading seriously this topic suddenly i read this and cracked up like hell . ROFL

[slice me nice]

It is Besiktas' basketball club's job to pull its fans closer. Not Euroleague's job to give Besiktas an A license when Besiktas isn't at that level yet.
Bayern also has many fans and they're actually a pretty decent team, they're not getting an A license either. And imagine if they were going to give a Manchester United Basketball Club an A license without any kind of investment beforehand, simply to try and pull its fans.

What could pull fans and what will keep the current fans here is a good competition.


Zielona Gora is not average in the current euroleague format. They're traditionally among the top candidates to get out immediately. It's not a success because nothing tells me they won their place, I don't think their previous appearances justify their spot. They're just there in the regular season, end up with something like 2-8 and carry on in the Eurocup anyway. I'm not saying this to offend any team of course but the differences in strength among some clubs are pretty big.

Greece only has one team in the UEFA champions league because that's how many teams we can have, even if Spain has 4. Spain has 4 teams that can all be competitive whereas if Greece sent a second team they'd be cannon fodder. Of course other national leagues, like Poland, don't even have that. How could any league be guaranteed more spots than it deserves simply for diversity?

The problem with A licenses is that they're mostly inflexible. If a league were to grow stronger, we wouldn't get more teams from there and that's wrong. That's why we need coefficients in some manner.
But instead of asking that, some fans want an even more extreme version of the A licenses where their team is guaranteed a spot no matter how weak it might be.
I don't think that's either doable or something we should want.

How did you surmise that I asked direct participation for my team? I didn't ask A licence. I just stated the who deserves it should be there. If they cancel these licences, believe me one of these two A licenced Turkish teams will be out of competition almost every year. I just said it. You don't get Euroleague participation invitation even if you play final in Turkish league. That's worse than foolery. If my team is better than those two teams, they should be there. Not the one who failed. Simple.

[maccabeo]

about us. sure, actual format allowed us to often get playoff even spending few pennies. it would be impossibile with new format but i think it will be a better format

[Jon_Koncak]

A few notes
1)IMG is the new Telefonika it seems..If anyone believes that a company in current economic world will just donate 600 millions(!!) to a marginal league like Jordi Cup better wake up.Whole thing will turn out to be a scam,i give it 1 year before IMG withdraws..
2)This joke of a format changes nothing for leagues like Germany,France,Adriatic League.On the other hand if you're an ambitious club of a country where other clubs hold A licences you;re simply screwed.Valencias,Gran Canarias,russian teams,Lietuvos,Galata,Paok,Italian teams,Hapoel Tel Aviv.The chances of joining El for them are like 0.5%.I see no reason for these clubs to continue supporting Jordi's monstrosity and play in Eurocup.
3)FIBA's handling of the situation was stupid,they should have proposed an champions league like format open to everyone,then the whole fans and national leagues would be behind them.Instead they tried to appease to the same old clubs and it came to bite them in the ass.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

So has Finland or the Netherlands. Why don't they get a spot? FYROM was far more successful, why didn't they get one?

I said that the step forward Polish national league has done within the last decade helped with their NT strenght and sending in a champion instead of Prokom every single year, contributed there. If Finns and Dutch will make their league competitive it will surely improve their NT as well, never claimed they have to be given an automatic place in euroleague automaticaly in order to achieve that, but will always be strongly in favour of them at least getting a chance for it as having a basketball team at the highest euro club level in my opinion isn't some "by God given right" as some see it, but has to be earned on court instead.

I don't think a european league's purpose is to assist in the organic growth of national basketball. This is the primarily the job of national federations and local clubs.
A european league's purpose is to bring together the best teams in Europe in a competitive tournament. The regural season as it is now is hardly competitive (and I'm not going by this season only, since we've had a few surprise results). It was a common theme to have teams casually stroll in a 10-0 run. What this does is essentially postpone the start of the season to January.

Well, I disagree with those few clubs being entitled to representing the whole of europe and exploiting the organic growth created through other ways (NBA, players, NT, dedicated smaller fanbases etc.). Some clubs got their interests to protect and are absolutely entitled to sharing your opinion, however would that make it any less partial of an interest? I, and I dare to say many more fans, don't see those clubs entitled to it, based on their spendings and some past glory. They are representatives of the best basketball in europe, not THE european basketball.

Also, you do realize that a large portion of that "competitiveness" of the top10 clubs is achieved exactly through licences? Having a licence means you'll get a player for a 300k € instead of 500k € non-euroleague teams should pay to lure the man in their roster. It also makes the long term signings cheaper for the licence-holding team, on the expense of everyone else. They get a better sponsorship deals (on the expense of other clubs once again) as well as TV contracts and those uneven playing ground largely makes club basketball uninteresting for majority of basketball fans.
What's wrong with the champions league model? if these 10 teams are long term best thing for basketball, I'm sure they'll be able to qualify over and over again? And i they don't, some other team obviously deserved it more.

And you see that's the point, those biggest clubs are in fact interested in euroleagues model, however majority of other smaller teams aren't. Euroleague's management has created an impression that european club basketball consists of no more than 10-20 teams and their interests, however I think it does not and that the opposition represents such a majority it really takes Fiba to screw up bad to lose this one. The future developments this summer will eventually tell if I'm wrong on this subject.

[Jon_Koncak]

Yeah it is not like 90% of the first round today (10 games) and big portion of the second round (16 games) are totally useless already.



You right there is no real value to permanent franchise.
Because every time Panathinaikos / Olympiacos / Maccabi / Real Madrid / Barcelona / Fener loose a playoff series because some fluke we would prefer not to see those teams in the Euroleague. Basketball is not football, 2-3 bad injuries in a bad time and you can loose a series to the 8 seeded teams and finish in the bottom half of the league.

.

That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

[Joško Poljak Fan]

A few notes
1)IMG is the new Telefonika it seems..If anyone believes that a company in current economic world will just donate 600 millions(!!) to a marginal league like Jordi Cup better wake up.Whole thing will turn out to be a scam,i give it 1 year before IMG withdraws..

True! However these "600M" are a sum of prognosed income over the 10 years and in 2025 when you've got only one player, I don't think any club will be there saying, hey we only got 15 millions instead of 50.

2)This joke of a format changes nothing for leagues like Germany,France,Adriatic League.On the other hand if you're an ambitious club of a country where other clubs hold A licences you;re simply screwed.Valencias,Gran Canarias,russian teams,Lietuvos,Galata,Paok,Italian teams,Hapoel Tel Aviv.The chances of joining El for them are like 0.5%.I see no reason for these clubs to continue supporting Jordi's monstrosity and play in Eurocup.

+1
However Fiba can screw up badly if they go in a war trying to outbid euroleague for Real, Barcelona and in the end come up with the same A-licence competition model, as you're saying in the 3rd point...

3)FIBA's handling of the situation was stupid,they should have proposed an champions league like format open to everyone,then the whole fans and national leagues would be behind them.Instead they tried to appease to the same old clubs and it came to bite them in the ass.

+1000
I might be a bit orthodox on this matter and was always strongly in favour of such model. However through commentaries on various Slovenian, Croatian, Serbian forums or talking about it with various people, I'm getting a feeling that quite a noticable majority actualy prefers it champions league way.

That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

+10^100

[Oly_fan]

On the other hand if you're an ambitious club of a country where other clubs hold A licences you;re simply screwed.Valencias,Gran Canarias,russian teams,Lietuvos,Galata,Paok,Italian teams,Hapoel Tel Aviv.The chances of joining El for them are like 0.5%

lol

A few notes
1)IMG is the new Telefonika it seems..If anyone believes that a company in current economic world will just donate 600 millions(!!) to a marginal league like Jordi Cup better wake up.Whole thing will turn out to be a scam,i give it 1 year before IMG withdraws..

No one is donating anything.

[Oly_fan]

Well, I disagree with those few clubs being entitled to representing the whole of europe and exploiting the organic growth created through other ways (NBA, players, NT, dedicated smaller fanbases etc.). Some clubs got their interests to protect and are absolutely entitled to sharing your opinion, however would that make it any less partial of an interest? I, and I dare to say many more fans, don't see those clubs entitled to it, based on their spendings and some past glory. They are representatives of the best basketball in europe, not THE european basketball.

Also, you do realize that a large portion of that "competitiveness" of the top10 clubs is achieved exactly through licences? Having a licence means you'll get a player for a 300k € instead of 500k € non-euroleague teams should pay to lure the man in their roster. It also makes the long term signings cheaper for the licence-holding team, on the expense of everyone else. They get a better sponsorship deals (on the expense of other clubs once again) as well as TV contracts and those uneven playing ground largely makes club basketball uninteresting for majority of basketball fans.
What's wrong with the champions league model? if these 10 teams are long term best thing for basketball, I'm sure they'll be able to qualify over and over again? And i they don't, some other team obviously deserved it more.

And you see that's the point, those biggest clubs are in fact interested in euroleagues model, however majority of other smaller teams aren't. Euroleague's management has created an impression that european club basketball consists of no more than 10-20 teams and their interests, however I think it does not and that the opposition represents such a majority it really takes Fiba to screw up bad to lose this one. The future developments this summer will eventually tell if I'm wrong on this subject.

No tournament can represent european basketball in general because european basketball involves hundreds of teams. It can however represent the best in european basketball.
Saying that having an A license means you can attract more players sounds quite funny because it seems to me that the secret to attracting players is being based somewhere in eastern europe with a flat tax rate and an endless supply of money.

I already said a club-nation coefficient system would be better. I just don't think it would change the participants by much, perhaps not at all in the short term.

[Victorious]

People should consider that these 16 teams will absorb most of the basketball talent in Europe. Especially since these teams will have a financial advantage over other teams. This will increase the level of the competition, which in turn will offer a good product. In other words, 16 high caliber teams competing against each other will offer frequent high caliber matches.

The EL could have narrowed it down even further to twelve teams. Looking at the TOP 16 of the last three years, one notices that essentially 10-12 teams are competing.

The new model is essentially a TOP 16 model, but all season long. The first round, along with many first round teams, is cancelled.

[INTEGRAL]

Guys just think about that, we will watch a better Eurocup after this year.

[maccabeo]

late new:
bartomenu tonight learned ohayon still have contract with mta in 2016, so the new format is postponed to the 2017

[hönk]

That's my first post at last as I just had been reading before.

I am from Germany and I think the new format is bullshit. Is this a surprise? That´s a closed-shop-league of eleven teams with five guest teams. No surprise that no one from a non-A-License-Country doesn´t celebrate that. But what about the ones from the countries with A-Licence-Teams? Is anybody from Andalusia or Valencia enjoyed about this format? Besides of Greece and Spain is there anybody in Europe approving this format? I mean even people from Istanbul (Galatasaray, Besiktas, Darüssafaka Dogus etc.) won´t like this format. Hey, you guy of A-License-Euroleague-Teams, are you considering us from the rest of europe as silly? One beer short of a sixpack?

That is a proposal for the worse of european basketball. One year ago Bertomeu talked about a Euroleague with relegation and promotion. Now it´s a closed-shop. IMG won´t sell anything in France and Germany. That´s a barrel burst.

[Oly_fan]

That's my first post at last as I just had been reading before.

I am from Germany and I think the new format is bullshit. Is this a surprise? That´s a closed-shop-league of eleven teams with five guest teams. No surprise that no one from a non-A-License-Country doesn´t celebrate that. But what about the ones from the countries with A-Licence-Teams? Is anybody from Andalusia or Valencia enjoyed about this format? Besides of Greece and Spain is there anybody in Europe approving this format? I mean even people from Istanbul (Galatasaray, Besiktas, Darüssafaka Dogus etc.) won´t like this format. Hey, you guy of A-License-Euroleague-Teams, are you considering us from the rest of europe as silly? One beer short of a sixpack?

That is a proposal for the worse of european basketball. One year ago Bertomeu talked about a Euroleague with relegation and promotion. Now it´s a closed-shop. IMG won´t sell anything in France and Germany. That´s a barrel burst.

There will be a german team and at least 2 turkish teams and 3 spanish teams.
The german team will need to win its league to enter the tournament.
There is also going to be the qualifications winner and the eurocup winner. And if winning these means a couple million extra in revenue, they'll become more important as a result.

But people keep mixing the two things, the reduction in the number of teams with the A licenses.
How are we going to 16 teams if Turkey has 4 or 5 teams, Spain has 4 or 5 teams, Italy and France have two teams etc?
Are people against having 16 teams? If we do end up having 16 teams, that's 8 teams less than usual. Some teams will be left out. Do the positives in that outweigh the negatives?

The best way to get rid of or reduce the A licenses is to stop the competition between FIBA and Euroleague because what the A licenses are is a way to lure teams.


Edit: Also the A licenses don't affect the greek teams at all, the two spots aren't going to anyone else.