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Thread: Serbian NT 2016

  1. #41
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    As it seems right now, Marjanović is doubtful for NT. Đorđević stated that only 16 players who begin preparations for OQT in Belgrade will also begin preparations for Olympics if we get there. That means Marjanović won't be among those players if he skips Belgrade tournament. Đorđević also said that all players have clear situations in their clubs and even Greg Popovich said that it is in Spurs' best interest to have as many players as possible in Rio. Marjanović can start contract negotiations since July 1 and we'll see if he is willing to take a risk of injury which could prevent him from getting probably the biggest deal of his career and play for NT. It's strictly up to him this time.

    I'm totally fine with this principle. It's fair and square. Đorđević wants to create a strong bond between him and players by showing that those who are willing to make the biggest sacrifice will be favourites to make the Olympic team.

  2. #42
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serbian_Layup View Post
    As it seems right now, Marjanović is doubtful for NT. Đorđević stated that only 16 players who begin preparations for OQT in Belgrade will also begin preparations for Olympics if we get there. That means Marjanović won't be among those players if he skips Belgrade tournament. Đorđević also said that all players have clear situations in their clubs and even Greg Popovich said that it is in Spurs' best interest to have as many players as possible in Rio. Marjanović can start contract negotiations since July 1 and we'll see if he is willing to take a risk of injury which could prevent him from getting probably the biggest deal of his career and play for NT. It's strictly up to him this time.

    I'm totally fine with this principle. It's fair and square. Đorđević wants to create a strong bond between him and players by showing that those who are willing to make the biggest sacrifice will be favourites to make the Olympic team.
    I agree on the principle, and if Bobi snubs the NT second year in a row, I would not call him up ever again. Even if he somehow becomes a huge monster, the priorities are not there and we have to build without him and not hope every fucking summer whether he will show up or not. Some people won't agree but I am 100% sure this has a lot to do with Djordjevic not even calling him up in WC 2014, while Stimac and Katic made that roster. Yes, Djordjevic probably fucked that up but I still don't think he should hold a grudge. If he doesn't show up, I would write him off and go on and build with younger players.

    Regarding the the NT 24-man roster he announced, I am having problem with some names. It's not that I don't think that those players can play, just he is not respecting the performance and development of some players, while bringing token guys which will be 100% cut before the final roster. So guys like Macvan, Milutinov, Micic, Jaramaz etc have zero chance to make that roster and it's a disgrace to call them up. Firstly they won't get a decent chance of reps with NT and you are taking away the summer from Milutinov and Micic and such youngsters to develop and improve.

    Also, if Guduric, Dangubic, Zagorac are deservedly called up to the NT, then this list had to include Musli and Jelovac after the seasons they had in Spain. Sorry but Musli is the PIR machine in Manresa and Jelovac made huge strides. These people can really contribute to the NT down the road and are playing positions which we need depth and fresh blood. Jelovac has been great in Zaragoza last 2 years and Musli is having MVP like season in Manresa (he won't get it due to the quality of his team, nevertheless he was excellent). Again they are not going to make the final roster 99% but they would bring depth and should be tested for NT instead of token players like Stimac etc. It's important to build these relationships with players, because if you hit an injury crisis (knock on wood), you cannot expect token guys to take over but rather people who can play and contribute. For example, while Stimac might be a great 3rd center for NT and just wave the towell from the bench and give his 3 minutes a game he would be a disaster of a second center if we get injuries at the position. A guy like Musli would be a much better second center in injury situations.

    I think he is year after year doing a disservice to many players. He said that Bobi can't be used in his system in 2014 and he didn't call him up, then he was crying on TV in 2015 that Bobi won't come since he was the center of our plans at the position (how things change in a year). Last year he didn't call up Macvan, saying he doesn't want to waste his time and summer since he is not expected to make the 12, and now a year later he is called up I mean, make up your fucking mind

  3. #43
    Senior Member Italian Pride's Avatar
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    So Macvan will be in the 16?

  4. #44
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    I agree on the principle, and if Bobi snubs the NT second year in a row, I would not call him up ever again. Even if he somehow becomes a huge monster, the priorities are not there and we have to build without him and not hope every fucking summer whether he will show up or not. Some people won't agree but I am 100% sure this has a lot to do with Djordjevic not even calling him up in WC 2014, while Stimac and Katic made that roster. Yes, Djordjevic probably fucked that up but I still don't think he should hold a grudge. If he doesn't show up, I would write him off and go on and build with younger players.

    Regarding the the NT 24-man roster he announced, I am having problem with some names. It's not that I don't think that those players can play, just he is not respecting the performance and development of some players, while bringing token guys which will be 100% cut before the final roster. So guys like Macvan, Milutinov, Micic, Jaramaz etc have zero chance to make that roster and it's a disgrace to call them up. Firstly they won't get a decent chance of reps with NT and you are taking away the summer from Milutinov and Micic and such youngsters to develop and improve.

    Also, if Guduric, Dangubic, Zagorac are deservedly called up to the NT, then this list had to include Musli and Jelovac after the seasons they had in Spain. Sorry but Musli is the PIR machine in Manresa and Jelovac made huge strides. These people can really contribute to the NT down the road and are playing positions which we need depth and fresh blood. Jelovac has been great in Zaragoza last 2 years and Musli is having MVP like season in Manresa (he won't get it due to the quality of his team, nevertheless he was excellent). Again they are not going to make the final roster 99% but they would bring depth and should be tested for NT instead of token players like Stimac etc. It's important to build these relationships with players, because if you hit an injury crisis (knock on wood), you cannot expect token guys to take over but rather people who can play and contribute. For example, while Stimac might be a great 3rd center for NT and just wave the towell from the bench and give his 3 minutes a game he would be a disaster of a second center if we get injuries at the position. A guy like Musli would be a much better second center in injury situations.

    I think he is year after year doing a disservice to many players. He said that Bobi can't be used in his system in 2014 and he didn't call him up, then he was crying on TV in 2015 that Bobi won't come since he was the center of our plans at the position (how things change in a year). Last year he didn't call up Macvan, saying he doesn't want to waste his time and summer since he is not expected to make the 12, and now a year later he is called up I mean, make up your fucking mind
    I know what you mean, but let's take into consideration one important fact: Marjanović from 14' was not nearly as good player as Marjanović in 15' or 16'. He definitely made huge strides last two years. Marjanović from 14' wasn't convincing enough for Đorđević and there is nothing wrong if he changed his mind due to his development.

    I was surprised too when I saw Mačvan on that list, and I'm not sure that Đorđević will write him off 100% before preparations. There is no logical explanation for Mačvan to be on that list if Đorđević won't call him to preparations. He is respectable player, he doesn't need any recognition and Đorđević would do the same he did last year or the year before that when he left him out of the list. That's why it makes me think that Mačvan may be one of those 16 players who will start preparations and fight for the roster spot. Coach shouldn't be rigid in terms of not changing mind about players that failed to impress him at first. Maybe he sees a role for Mačvan this year, especially when there is no Erceg and any real quality PF besides Bjelica.

    As for Musli and Jelovac, they deserve to be at least on this preliminary list. I have to be honest and say that I haven't watched much both of them this season, so I can't really judge their play. During his Partizan tenure, Musli was quite bad and I can't judge him just from highlights this season. Maybe his stats have everything to do with the fact that he is playing for rather bad team in ACB which barely escaped relegation.

    As for our youngsters, Đorđević is not really taking the summer away from them. Jaramaz, Micić and maybe Milutinov won't even start preparations so they will have a full summer to dedicate to their development. It's different with Zagorac, Gudurić and Dangubić. They all have chance to be among 16 players that will start preparations and fight for the roster spot.

    There are definitely some names that should have been included in this preliminary roster, just to give them respect for their good seasons at least .

  5. #45
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Italian Pride View Post
    So Macvan will be in the 16?
    Don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens.

  6. #46
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Italian Pride View Post
    So Macvan will be in the 16?
    I would say no chance. He didn't make the 24 last time, this time he is there but I can't see how he gets a spot on the roster of 16. In terms of forwards he has called up:

    Kalinic, Bjelica, Dangubic, Zagorac, Lucic, Bircevic, Simonovic, Macvan, Keselj.

    Bogdanovic, Guduric, Milosavljevic can all play SF spot when needed. Kalinic and Simonovic can fill in at PF (especially when playing and defending small ball). Jokic is expected to be a PF with the national team. So I can't see how will Macvan get on the roster here. Limited skillset, very unsuited for our style of play.

  7. #47
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serbian_Layup View Post
    I know what you mean, but let's take into consideration one important fact: Marjanović from 14' was not nearly as good player as Marjanović in 15' or 16'. He definitely made huge strides last two years. Marjanović from 14' wasn't convincing enough for Đorđević and there is nothing wrong if he changed his mind due to his development.

    I was surprised too when I saw Mačvan on that list, and I'm not sure that Đorđević will write him off 100% before preparations. There is no logical explanation for Mačvan to be on that list if Đorđević won't call him to preparations. He is respectable player, he doesn't need any recognition and Đorđević would do the same he did last year or the year before that when he left him out of the list. That's why it makes me think that Mačvan may be one of those 16 players who will start preparations and fight for the roster spot. Coach shouldn't be rigid in terms of not changing mind about players that failed to impress him at first. Maybe he sees a role for Mačvan this year, especially when there is no Erceg and any real quality PF besides Bjelica.

    As for Musli and Jelovac, they deserve to be at least on this preliminary list. I have to be honest and say that I haven't watched much both of them this season, so I can't really judge their play. During his Partizan tenure, Musli was quite bad and I can't judge him just from highlights this season. Maybe his stats have everything to do with the fact that he is playing for rather bad team in ACB which barely escaped relegation.

    As for our youngsters, Đorđević is not really taking the summer away from them. Jaramaz, Micić and maybe Milutinov won't even start preparations so they will have a full summer to dedicate to their development. It's different with Zagorac, Gudurić and Dangubić. They all have chance to be among 16 players that will start preparations and fight for the roster spot.

    There are definitely some names that should have been included in this preliminary roster, just to give them respect for their good seasons at least .
    Nobody denies the progress of Marjanovic in the last few years, the issue I have with his call up is the following. Were Rasko Katic and Stimac even close in terms of quality in 2014? He was a much better player than them, even then. Not even counting that we basically had an injured Krstic (which he dragged anyway) and Raduljica who noone knew what to expect from. He was basically a scrub and an afterthought in 2014. He exploded on that tournament, and now he is an integral part of the roster. At that time? No. So yes a great injustice was made towards Marjanovic. I also think he should be a bigger man and take that. Still I can understand why a player would harbor resentment in that case, given how he was treated. It's easy for a coach to change his mind when he sees what the whole basketball world sees. To be a great coach, you have to anticipate the development of players and how will they benefit your team. So far, I don't think he did a great job of this. His core (outside of Raduljica) has not changed a bit to what Ivkovic was selecting, and a number of players who have had good seasons last few years have been left out.
    Last edited by CoachZ; 05-21-2016 at 02:26 PM.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    Nobody denies the progress of Marjanovic in the last few years, the issue I have with his call up is the following. Were Rasko Katic and Stimac even close in terms of quality in 2014? He was a much better player than them, even then. Not even counting that we basically had an injured Krstic (which he dragged anyway) and Raduljica who noone knew what to expect from. He was basically a scrub and an afterthought in 2014. He exploded on that tournament, and now he is an integral part of the roster. At that time? No. So yes a great injustice was made towards Marjanovic. I also think he should be a bigger man and take that. Still I can understand why a player would harbor resentment in that case, given how he was treated. It's easy for a coach to change his mind when he sees what the whole basketball world sees. To be a great coach, you have to anticipate the development of players and how will they benefit your team. So far, I don't think he did a great job of this. His core (outside of Raduljica) has not changed a bit to what Ivkovic was selecting, and a number of players who have had good seasons last few years have been left out.

    In 2014. Marjanović was better player than those guys, but not by a wide margin that it would be shocking not to call him. I think he called up Katić and Štimac because of their experience and the fact that he intended to use occasionally Katić as a PF, which he couldn't do with Marjanović.

    I wouldn't say he didn't do a good job of anticipating things. I'd say he did a helluva job of anticipating things. He said he was going after a medal in 2014. and everybody thought something like ''this guy is a lunatic“, it turns out he chose the best possible selection at that moment and got the medal. I would say that was darn good anticipation. He may have been wrong about Marjanović, but he definitely got the best out of Raduljica, like no one before him and that was a huge benefit for our team. Basically, he completely neutralized the mistake he may have done with Marjanović. I would say that was also pretty good anticipation. And it all turned out to be just perfect in 2014.

    Why would he change this core of players? Among those guys who had good seasons, who do you think is a core player outside of Marjanović? I agree that Musli, Jelovac and maybe few more guys should have been included in preliminary roster, but none of them is a core player, not even close. He will add Jokić as one of core players this year and hopefully Marjanović, and other guys like Zagorac, Gudurić and Dangubić will definitely be regular NT members if not this year than surely for years to come.

    There is just one thing that's baffling to me. This situation about Mačvan. I can't think of any reason why he would add Mačvan to preliminary roster if he doesn't want him among 16 players. Why wouldn't he do the same thing he did last two years by not calling Mačvan at all? It just doesn't make sense.

  9. #49
    Senior Member serbianhoops's Avatar
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    Serbia University or Under 24 or B (depending on the version) National Team will take part to a tournament in China next June.

    Preliminary roster

    6'5" PG Stefan Pot (1994) - Mladost Zemun
    6'2" PG Jovan Novak (1994) - Metalac Valjevo
    6'8" SF Petar Rakicevic (1995)- Metalac Valjevo
    6'7" SG Dušan Kutlesic (1994) - Metalac Valjevo
    6'9" PF Ljubomir Campara (1993) - Metalac Valjevo
    6'4" PG Andreja Stevanovic (1995) - Borac Cacak
    6'9" PF Strahinja Micovic (1992) - Borac Cacak
    6'10" C Nemanja Miskovic (1993) - Borac Cacak
    6'6" SG Djordje Milosevic (1993)- Igokea
    6'3" PG Miroslav Pasajlic (1995) - Igokea
    6'9" PF Andrija Simovic (1995) - Vrsac
    7'1" C Radoslav Pekovic (1994) - Tamis Pancevo
    6'3" SG Andreja Sarenac (1995) - Kaiser Univsersity (NAIA)
    6'4" SG Sasa Avramovic (1993) - Kosice (Slovakia)
    6'9" C Milos Jankovic (1994) - Massagno (Switzerland)

  10. #50
    Senior Member Obina's Avatar
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    I think that Sale must wait for Bobi, if this is necessary. With him and Jokic we will have much stronger frontcourt.

    Djordjevic has his own principles and that is ok but in some situations exception is neccessary.

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    Teodosić - Jović
    Nedović
    Bogdanović - Gudurić
    Kalinić - Zagorac
    Bjelica - Mačvan
    Jokić
    Marjanović - Raduljica

  12. #52
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serbian_Layup View Post
    I'm totally fine with this principle. It's fair and square. Đorđević wants to create a strong bond between him and players by showing that those who are willing to make the biggest sacrifice will be favourites to make the Olympic team.
    I'm with Coach Đorđević. What he's doing is team building. And what's held the Serb team back these last twelve or so years is not a lack of talent but a lack of team spirit/unity.
    Last edited by Hepcat; 05-26-2016 at 06:17 PM.

  13. #53
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    Here is the list of 16 that will enter the preparation phase for OI Qualy.

    Nemanja Dangubić SG/SF - Crvena zvezda Telekom
    Marko Gudurić SG/SF - Crvena zvezda Telekom
    Stefan Jović PG/SG - Crvena zvezda Telekom
    Marko Simonović SF/PF - Crvena zvezda Telekom
    Rade Zagorac SG/SF - Mega Leks
    Bogdan Bogdanović SG - Fenerbahče
    Nikola Kalinić SF/PF - Fenerbahče
    Milan Mačvan PF - Armani Milano
    Stefan Marković PG - Unicaja
    Nemanja Nedović PG/SG - Unicaja
    Nikola Milutinov C - Olympiakos
    Miroslav Raduljica C - Panathinaikos
    Miloš Teodosić PG - CSKA
    Nemanja Bjelica PF - Minnesota Timberwolves
    Nikola Jokić PF/C - Denver Nuggets
    Boban Marjanović C - San Antonio Spurs

    He has decided not to call up Stefan Bircevic, Vasilije Micic, Ognjen Kuzmic, Vladimir Stimac, Marko Keselj, Ognjen Jaramaz, Vladimir Lucic and Dragan Milosavljevic.
    Last edited by CoachZ; 05-27-2016 at 11:35 AM.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Obina's Avatar
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    I am pretty surprised for Milosavljevic, he had great season in Alba...

  15. #55
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obina View Post
    I am pretty surprised for Milosavljevic, he had great season in Alba...
    I am OK with most of the cuts here except Gagi, he really did a great job and he actually contributed last time around. I get that Zagorac and Guduric are supremely talented and young and upcoming guys but Gagi deserves more respect.

    My main issues are with Milutinov on the roster based on talent, since he didn't fucking touch the ball this year. Macvan suddenly there even though we have MORE at PF now than ever in last 5-6 years with Bjelica and Jokic, plus Kalinic and Simonovic who can be there for small ball. Those 2 are main issues, otherwise I feel bad for Gagi but that backfield is loaded and someone had to be wronged we cannot take 8 guards

    In general I think that young guys should get a chance always, but I would rather have them on roster for the Eurobasket 2017 where the stakes would be much lower. Out of the 16 mentioned here I feel we will lose these 4:

    - Milutinov - He has nothing to give at this point, he is a prospect. With Bobi, Raduljica and Jokic able to cover the C position, no need for him.
    - Macvan - Again can't see him cracking the rotation in any way.
    - Simonovic - He was very important player for Zvezda this year and for NT on EB 2015 but he is limited and he should be sacrificed for younger players.
    - Guduric/Zagorac - Since they cut Gagi, then one of these guys will not make it. Guduric played in a tough competition and showed his skills vs the best + he is healthy all year. Zagorac basically missed first half of the year and his experience is ABA league related. I would go for Guduric, but I guess it's coaches choice since neither will be the key man in the rotation this year barring some injury craziness.

    Still there is a chance that Marjanovic doesn't make this roster, then Djordjevic would keep Macvan probably and move Jokic to C. I don't like that so much but I don't think he will keep Milutinov or Callup Stimac or Kuzmic he cut. We will see. Djordjevic might go ahead and cut Dangubic again and keep Simonovic. You never know. He hasn't really been a man of his word last few years

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    I am very satisfied with cuts, I wish Simonovic was cut as well , can"t stand him , still have flashbacks from his heroics two seasons ago against Cibona. I think one of the younger players will make the team Guduric or Zagorac, I hope it is Guduric, kid got balls, won some very important games in Euroleague this season, I think his coach Radonjic is holding him back from really breakthrough season. But still he made some impressive plays this season.
    UZEO SI TROFEJ MACVANE MACVANE MACVANE!!!

  17. #57
    Senior Member Obina's Avatar
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    With Marjanovic and Jokic, i am not sure does we need Raduljica? Milutinov is better option for 3rd center IMO.

  18. #58
    Senior Member soulis79's Avatar
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    I think it's obvious that coach Djordjevic "has chosen" his final twelve players.

    My opinion is that : Teodosic, Jovic, Markovic, Nedovic, Bogdanovic, Kalinic, Simonovic, Bjelica, Jokic, Radulica, Marjanovic and Jokic. I can see no changes to that squad unless something happens(injury). From the above players only Nedovic is in risk.

  19. #59
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulis79 View Post
    I think it's obvious that coach Djordjevic "has chosen" his final twelve players.

    My opinion is that : Teodosic, Jovic, Markovic, Nedovic, Bogdanovic, Kalinic, Simonovic, Bjelica, Jokic, Radulica, Marjanovic and Jokic. I can see no changes to that squad unless something happens(injury). From the above players only Nedovic is in risk.
    You have Jokic twice So it will be probably another SF/SG like Dangubic/Guduric. Simonovic is liked by coach, but I think he is not a lock to make the roster. Others are more or less 100% safe. In reality 2 spots are up for grabs max.

  20. #60
    Senior Member soulis79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    You have Jokic twice So it will be probably another SF/SG like Dangubic/Guduric. Simonovic is liked by coach, but I think he is not a lock to make the roster. Others are more or less 100% safe. In reality 2 spots are up for grabs max.
    True for Jokic. I meant Milutinov. Djordjevic likes to go BIG, so 3 Centers is a lock!

    You have a point about Dangubic. Maybe he 'll make it.

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