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Thread: Serbian NT 2016

  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    I think so, since he will be playing a major role there as well. His skillset transfers well to any league in Europe so he shouldn't really worry about that.

    He will be the leader of that team and play big minutes. Also knowing Zenit, this year they will focus on narrowing the gap and go for Euroleague for next year, where they will splash the cash. So he can be a part of that project. Project Malaga is on it's weak legs again with so much turnover.
    I bet Plaza will be moaning to the players all year about Malaga losing their Euroleague license.

    Will Erceg make a "comeback" this year?

  2. #322
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    So I see the Serbian team emerged with the coveted Olympic Silver medal. What then was all the recrimination, backbiting, bellyaching and dissing of Coach Đorđević earlier in this thread all about?


  3. #323
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    So I see the Serbian team emerged with the coveted Olympic Silver medal. What then was all the recrimination, backbiting, bellyaching and dissing of Coach Đorđević earlier in this thread all about?

    I would think that was because of the last years Euro tournament ?
    And teams selection ,perhaps ?

  4. #324
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    The issue of results is not the question. It's the way we play and perform (choke at Eurobasket 2015 and in general shitty play at Olympics outside of that game vs Australia). We can't complain regarding the results so far, but many of us are far from happy with team selection, our effort and level of play in many games. Also, many people don't like that stubborn attitude of Djordjevic...

  5. #325
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    The issue of results is not the question. It's the way we play and perform (choke at Eurobasket 2015 and in general shitty play at Olympics outside of that game vs Australia). We can't complain regarding the results so far, but many of us are far from happy with team selection, our effort and level of play in many games. Also, many people don't like that stubborn attitude of Djordjevic...
    So , if it was up to you or some other fellow Serbians . ...and ...Lets not talk about what already happened ,but for next tournament ,2017 euros . Lets say you have carte blanche on your hands in choosing the team and a coach .How would you approach that ?

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by auris1 View Post
    So , if it was up to you or some other fellow Serbians . ...and ...Lets not talk about what already happened ,but for next tournament ,2017 euros . Lets say you have carte blanche on your hands in choosing the team and a coach .How would you approach that ?
    I would take Dejan Milojevic for the coach of the future and lock him up long term. Djordjevic again has taken a club job, that will again be an issue. I prefer a coach that wants to play modern basketball and get guys in shape to play at a high tempo for 40 minutes. This is what Milojevic does, also he is a much, much lesser ego than Djordjevic.

    Regarding the team. It's early to say who the final 12 should be for Eurobasket, since we don't know how some people will perform but the player pool to select from would be:

    G Teodosic, Nedovic, Jovic, Bogdanovic, Guduric, Marinkovic
    F Bjelica, Kalinic, Zagorac, Macvan, Jelovac, Lucic, Simanic
    C Raduljica, Marjanovic, Jokic, Milutinov, Musli

    So from that 18, we could select the first 12. Some people might get injured, some might not answer the call up etc. In general, with those guys we would be more athletic, built for the future and easier to play modern basketball. A lot more shooting than now on the roster.

  7. #327
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    I would take Dejan Milojevic for the coach of the future and lock him up long term. Djordjevic again has taken a club job, that will again be an issue. I prefer a coach that wants to play modern basketball and get guys in shape to play at a high tempo for 40 minutes. This is what Milojevic does, also he is a much, much lesser ego than Djordjevic.

    Regarding the team. It's early to say who the final 12 should be for Eurobasket, since we don't know how some people will perform but the player pool to select from would be:

    G Teodosic, Nedovic, Jovic, Bogdanovic, Guduric, Marinkovic
    F Bjelica, Kalinic, Zagorac, Macvan, Jelovac, Lucic, Simanic
    C Raduljica, Marjanovic, Jokic, Milutinov, Musli

    So from that 18, we could select the first 12. Some people might get injured, some might not answer the call up etc. In general, with those guys we would be more athletic, built for the future and easier to play modern basketball. A lot more shooting than now on the roster.
    How certain are you that Dejan can deliver straight away ?
    Would you have a patience to wait if things go wrong ?
    I mean you would have to wait until 2019 . So no straight redemption .

  8. #328
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auris1 View Post
    How certain are you that Dejan can deliver straight away ?
    Would you have a patience to wait if things go wrong ?
    I mean you would have to wait until 2019 . So no straight redemption .
    I said long term So yeah that is what I would be looking for from Dejan. He basically has the same level experience as Djordjevic when he took over the NT, and to be honest he did a far better job as a coach in the club than Djordjevic in the past It is a different story whether he would be as strong a motivator as Djordjevic.

    I have no problem waiting out the results, especially since EB2017 will be a letdown and has lost a lot of its importance. I don't have a problem to stick by the coach, even if the results are not there. As long as the team is improving, playing with a lot of effort and playing modern and progressive basketball.

  9. #329
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    I said long term So yeah that is what I would be looking for from Dejan. He basically has the same level experience as Djordjevic when he took over the NT, and to be honest he did a far better job as a coach in the club than Djordjevic in the past It is a different story whether he would be as strong a motivator as Djordjevic.

    I have no problem waiting out the results, especially since EB2017 will be a letdown and has lost a lot of its importance. I don't have a problem to stick by the coach, even if the results are not there. As long as the team is improving, playing with a lot of effort and playing modern and progressive basketball.
    Good talk)
    BTW ,who (what team ) do you consider to play modern basketball ?
    Be it NT or club level in Europe ?

  10. #330
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auris1 View Post
    Good talk)
    BTW ,who (what team ) do you consider to play modern basketball ?
    Be it NT or club level in Europe ?
    In terms of national teams, I don't think anyone does Spain is the closest to it, but with the over-reliance on Pau Gasol, that also goes out of the water kind of.

    Regarding club teams. I think that CSKA plays a very fast paced and diverse offense that delivers game after game, regardless who they are facing and what kind of defense is run against them. They do have some defensive holes but they do try to play more of a NBA style defense compared to many other teams. They don't zone too much, they are not really a hand grabby team and they run a great transition game from defensive rebounds and turnovers.

    Brose Basket runs a very modern offensive concept as a team and they like to push the tempo. Of course, the quality is not there in terms of player talent but in terms of scheme and approach to the game, it is a great concept. Similar to that Zvezda runs a very aggressive defensive scheme which doesn't rely much on zone, and is quite modern and high paced. Of course, the offense is another story.

    In terms of ball movement, Fenerbahce is the best on the continent. Matchup offense and ball movement that Obradovic tries to implement is straight out of Spurs playbook. Still there are many other concepts in Fener that are really old fashioned though.

    Real Madrid transition game is also there, a fluid transition which eliminates the PG as the initiator of the transition. That is great also.

    So there are concepts here and there, but CSKA is the closest to a team-wide effort on that front.

  11. #331
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    In terms of national teams, I don't think anyone does Spain is the closest to it, but with the over-reliance on Pau Gasol, that also goes out of the water kind of.
    Appreciate . But...
    Lets just talk about national teams then as such...And Europeans,for that matter of fact .
    That is a bit of different ball game they play there, and maybe for a reason ? Maybe there is no time/reason for them teams to try and play "modern" game as they are there for only short term for one task - get that team to work together and win as many games as possible in a short period of time?

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by auris1 View Post
    Appreciate . But...
    Lets just talk about national teams then as such...And Europeans,for that matter of fact .
    That is a bit of different ball game they play there, and maybe for a reason ? Maybe there is no time/reason for them teams to try and play "modern" game as they are there for only short term for one task - get that team to work together and win as many games as possible in a short period of time?
    Well if you just look at the tournaments for NT and what you can do in such a short time, and get the whole team on board to achieve something things have to be simple. I think if you play a good straight up defense and your players are good at it, you will way easier prepare the team for competitions defensively. With that in place, you will be able to rely on your defense most of the tournament to keep you in games. What we see with NT is the opposite. Most teams try to implement some zone schemes that take way too long to learn and a lot of times just don't work vs teams that can exploit zone defenses. Man-to-man defense, solid defense, will not be lights out every game, there will be matchups that teams can exploit but in the end will always over the course of the tournament work out better. Also, like I said it takes less time to implement and have it run efficiently by NT.

    On offense, things get very complex. It is impossible over one camp to implement an offensive system that will be complex enough and give you enough options like you do in club teams. So all the offensive systems are simplified to the bone and teams run actually very few set plays. The teams with continuity and same faces year after year can upgrade the playbook under same coach, but most of them do not have that luxury. Teams like Serbia are 80% PnR based offenses and movement off of that. We rely on PnR to be the base of things we do on offense way too much and we run about 6 sets that I have counted as pre-called plays in offense (not counting inbound and sideline plays, which are specialty play anyway). If you want to have a diverse offense, you need to have sets created for different lineups and guys you want plays to be called for. Then you have to adjust them according to the defense you are facing. This takes way too much time and most of the teams cannot afford that much time to the offensive playbook. So what happens is that teams run the PnR, they run the sideline screen action, they run the weave outside, they run ISO for few players and that is about it. So if your stars are in form and have good matchups that looks good on the floor, otherwise you look pretty bad.

    I think the best compromise is that when putting a playbook for NT on offense you have to identify some of the key plays and sets that are run for your star players on the club level, and where they operate most efficiently on, then build something around that so they are familiar and pick it up quickly. Identify players you want to matchup vs other and run ISO for and then also deliver some screen game. The rest you leave to PnR, transition and ball movement after the play breaks down. That is the best you can hope for. That is why Americans blow everyone away, since they excel at the ISO, PnR, Transition even without preparation on offense.

  13. #333
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    Well if you just look at the tournaments for NT and what you can do in such a short time, and get the whole team on board to achieve something things have to be simple. I think if you play a good straight up defense and your players are good at it, you will way easier prepare the team for competitions defensively. With that in place, you will be able to rely on your defense most of the tournament to keep you in games. What we see with NT is the opposite. Most teams try to implement some zone schemes that take way too long to learn and a lot of times just don't work vs teams that can exploit zone defenses. Man-to-man defense, solid defense, will not be lights out every game, there will be matchups that teams can exploit but in the end will always over the course of the tournament work out better. Also, like I said it takes less time to implement and have it run efficiently by NT.

    On offense, things get very complex. It is impossible over one camp to implement an offensive system that will be complex enough and give you enough options like you do in club teams. So all the offensive systems are simplified to the bone and teams run actually very few set plays. The teams with continuity and same faces year after year can upgrade the playbook under same coach, but most of them do not have that luxury. Teams like Serbia are 80% PnR based offenses and movement off of that. We rely on PnR to be the base of things we do on offense way too much and we run about 6 sets that I have counted as pre-called plays in offense (not counting inbound and sideline plays, which are specialty play anyway). If you want to have a diverse offense, you need to have sets created for different lineups and guys you want plays to be called for. Then you have to adjust them according to the defense you are facing. This takes way too much time and most of the teams cannot afford that much time to the offensive playbook. So what happens is that teams run the PnR, they run the sideline screen action, they run the weave outside, they run ISO for few players and that is about it. So if your stars are in form and have good matchups that looks good on the floor, otherwise you look pretty bad.

    I think the best compromise is that when putting a playbook for NT on offense you have to identify some of the key plays and sets that are run for your star players on the club level, and where they operate most efficiently on, then build something around that so they are familiar and pick it up quickly. Identify players you want to matchup vs other and run ISO for and then also deliver some screen game. The rest you leave to PnR, transition and ball movement after the play breaks down. That is the best you can hope for. That is why Americans blow everyone away, since they excel at the ISO, PnR, Transition even without preparation on offense.
    All good .
    Let me just ask you one simple question .
    How come did we win last year vs Serbia ?
    And how come Serbia did that much better this year compared to Lithuania?

  14. #334
    Junior Member Titov Pionir's Avatar
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