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Thread: Vilnius Rytas Thread

  1. #41
    Senior Member Modis's Avatar
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    Does anybody think Gudaitis could still make it to NBA? this season is awful for him . The Kings still hold his draft rights.
    Lithuania

    Olympic Games: Bronze 1992-1996-2000.
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  2. #42
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modis View Post
    Does anybody think Gudaitis could still make it to NBA? this season is awful for him . The Kings still hold his draft rights.
    He is build from glass, it looks like he would even have an injury while having sex, probably usual for him - sprain his ankle


  3. #43

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    Finally Rytas hired real coach- Tomas Pačėsas. I watched first game against Lietkabelis and I liked what I saw. Pačėsas doesn't complicate things playing simple basketball, usually p&r, some simple sets, but he really demands discipline and will make you pay for every mistake from basketball ABC. Rytas played tough defence, really tried to play concentrated basketball and Pačėsas was taking a time out any time there's a signs of softness and chaos. I really liked this moments, he doesn't tolerate 80-90% effort. With Rytas the main problem is defence and ballhoging and Pačėsas just demands to move the ball. It will be a hard task for him, but at least Rytas can start creating ethics of PRO team.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member Svajunas's Avatar
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    Pacesas should be great for this team. But with the lack of real opponents I dont see them getting in par level with Zalgiris.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Finally Rytas hired real coach- Tomas Pačėsas.
    We'll see about that realness The last time I saw Pacesas with Prokom and our u-20 NT he was really poor, offense was pure streetball in Prokom, it worked for one season when he had core of good offensive talent, later few season he failed in EL badly. Our u-20 NT looked clueless in offense, no gameplan, nothing.
    Of course he had time for improvement, but I guess his real abilities will be seen only in LKL final stages


  6. #46
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    We'll see about that realness The last time I saw Pacesas with Prokom and our u-20 NT he was really poor, offense was pure streetball in Prokom, it worked for one season when he had core of good offensive talent, later few season he failed in EL badly. Our u-20 NT looked clueless in offense, no gameplan, nothing.
    Of course he had time for improvement, but I guess his real abilities will be seen only in LKL final stages
    as far as i remember that lithuanian u-20 was very limited team and watching couple games and results i thought myself pacesas doing good job demanding max they can do... Because nobody from that u-20 team that pacesas coached is anywhere right now...btw they lost in pacesas year 72-75 in 1/4 to all tournament future champions italians...so it was one shot from medals with average roster.About prokom he manage to make top8 one season,that zalgiris cant do more than 15 years...He is very hard on players and demands max.I believe this is the best rytas coach since kurtinaitis they hired.But we will see.About lkl finals i dont believe that this rytas roster can beat this years zalgiris roster ,but im sure rytas wont lose 0-4 in sweep like under Nicola when rosters wasnt even so one sided like this year looks.I dont know where your dislikes come to pacesas,but atleats what i saw he is good coach with lithuanian standarts we have.

    As far i see pacesas "tough hands" is exactly what this lazy rytas team needed.And im zalgiris fan, in my book Pacesas>Krapikas. Hopefully motiejunas will understand next season that Jasikevicius have to be main coach until he didnt got other offers,and krapikas return to duty he does really well : be asisstant coach
    Last edited by Shawshank; 12-22-2015 at 01:20 PM.

  7. #47
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    as far as i remember that lithuanian u-20 was very limited team and watching couple games and results i thought myself pacesas doing good job demanding max they can do... Because nobody from that u-20 team that pacesas coached is anywhere right now...btw they lost in pacesas year 72-75 in 1/4 to all tournament future champions italians...so it was one shot from medals with average roster.
    Of course roster wasn't the best, but even with such one you surely can set some offensive plan, create plays, combinations and etc. But instead, as much games as I saw, it was really primitive offense without any ideas. That's what I'm talking about

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    About prokom he manage to make top8 one season,that zalgiris cant do more than 15 years...
    I really see no connection with Zalgiris here. Prokom back in the days was owned by Polish multimillionairre Krause and had really good budget + really good core of foreigners like Qyntel Woods, Logan, Varda, Daniel Ewing, Jagla. And played pure streetball based on individual offensive talent. Just to make some comparison, remember how much influence some Sireika had on winning Eurobasket 2003. It was basically the same with Pacesas and Prokom

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    He is very hard on players and demands max.I believe this is the best rytas coach since kurtinaitis they hired.But we will see.About lkl finals i dont believe that this rytas roster can beat this years zalgiris roster ,but im sure rytas wont lose 0-4 in sweep like under Nicola when rosters wasnt even so one sided like this year looks.I dont know where your dislikes come to pacesas,but atleats what i saw he is good coach with lithuanian standarts we have.
    Dislikes? I'm just stating my opinion about his coaching abilities and I've been doin' it for years, cause I've seen none, except for screaming some random stuff during time-outs like "shoots the ball bl*t", "score points" and etc. So far he did nothing to change my point of view regarding it. Maybe he will, can't tell that now


  8. #48
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    we have diffrent opinions on Pacesas.Maybe he is not best tacticians or something ( but who from lithuanians coaches are ? ),but if he manages to almost win medal with average roster its means something works in his coaching.So do not picturing that he did bad work that summer,my opinion he did good job,but was a bit unlucky facing champions in 1/4.If we compare him with ale "tacticians" like stombergas,masiulis and others that coaches our youths lately,he was like fresh breathe of air to my taste

    Yeah prokom wasnt poor in those years,but far from top 8 euroleague team roster or money wise. Only couple teams in entire euroleague ( not counting europes giants) can say we have made top 8 in euroleague. THats my point with zalgiris example,its very hard make that top8 for average europe club.THats big achievement for any coach,if you do not coach cska,real,olimpiakos...

    How many Lithuanian coaches have coached foreign euroleague team? Kazlauskas,Kurtinaitis and ? yeah Pacesas thats all. I happy that pacesas comeback coaching,because he was/is 3-4 best lithuanian coach right now in my book.

    Sometimes best tactics is just to be able to make your players play hard ! like pacesas always does;]
    Last edited by Shawshank; 12-22-2015 at 03:16 PM.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Of course roster wasn't the best, but even with such one you surely can set some offensive plan, create plays, combinations and etc. But instead, as much games as I saw, it was really primitive offense without any ideas. That's what I'm talking about
    I think we overrate the level of coaching in that level. This summer I followed U-20 team coached by Masiulis and boy it was high school coaching. I mean it's nothing like PRO basketball. Run and gun, do whatever it works, some general instructions at best are being given. From what I've seen Masiulis was just standing around and even failing to take a time out in in the right time. Let alone utilizing different players strenght, sticking to game plan, running plays. Even Sabonis looked lost out there, no game plan whatsoever. I didn't like it because some of those players where PROs already, but it seems like it's common practice to coach like this at this level.
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  10. #50
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    we have diffrent opinions on Pacesas.Maybe he is not best tacticians or something ( but who from lithuanians coaches are ? ),but if he manages to almost win medal with average roster its means something works in his coaching.So do not picturing that he did bad work that summer,my opinion he did good job,but was a bit unlucky facing champions in 1/4.If we compare him with ale "tacticians" like stombergas,masiulis and others that coaches our youths lately,he was like fresh breathe of air to my taste
    For sure we won't agree on that as we see things totally different During that tournament I exactly missed coach hand offensivelly, and looking from that angle - maybe that's exactly what we missed to get the medal? Regarding Masiulis, Stombergas, I'm not sayin' that they are some great coaches, far from that. Overall best tacticial of course is Kazlauskas. Also I really liked Kemzura's tactics (Blatt's influence obviously), just he is getting lost with his in-game decisions. Now I also like how Adomaitis progresses. Last season I was sayin' that he outsmarted Maksvytis in bronze medal series and so far, the way he manages Neptunas makes me think that he can be better and better

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Yeah prokom wasnt poor in those years,but far from top 8 euroleague team roster or money wise. Only couple teams in entire euroleague ( not counting europes giants) can say we have made top 8 in euroleague. THats my point with zalgiris example,its very hard make that top8 for average europe club.THats big achievement for any coach,if you do not coach cska,real,olimpiakos...
    They weren't that poor and that far. Atleast surely closer than Zalgiris that year, which came right after crisis season. Btw we were in the same group of Top16, which was obviously the weakest that season, so I remember lot of fans having hopes for top8 too, but we ended up one win short. Anyways it has nothing to do with Pacesas. If you remember how Prokom was playin', you surely won't deny that he was almost not a factor in that success (that's why I mentioned Sireika 2003 as example). It was pure streetball, which was ran by Logan, Woods, Ewing mostly. And these time-outs of Pacesas, when he screams some random stuff, with all these US guys and Varda just smiling behind his back, stuck into my mind till now. I guess that showed overall picture quite well

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    How many Lithuanian coaches have coached foreign euroleague team? Kazlauskas,Kurtinaitis and ? yeah Pacesas thats all. I happy that pacesas comeback coaching,because he was/is 3-4 best lithuanian coach right now in my book.
    Pacesas was coaching Prokom cause he was in very good relationship with Krause, played there for years, was assistant coach. Overall was loyal warrior for a guy who was like Polish Romanov or smth You know that it does not matter much who is in coaching position under such owner

    By no means I want to downgrade Pacesas as a coach. Maybe I just don't see his talents and he will prove me wrong, maybe he improved during these few years too, but so far, in my book, he did nothing to rate him among best LT coaches, I just didn't see enough of his input in his teams' success, more like one season fortune with Prokom


  11. #51
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Question

    What the hell is wrong with Lietuvos Rytas? The team performed poorly in the Eurocup competition and is now down 2-0 to a Klaipėda Neptūnas team without a single player that might even merit a second glance from Coach Kazlauskas.

    Meanwhile Rytas is loaded with both past and potential Team Lietuva players, Kšištofas Lavrinovičius, Mindaugas Lukauskis, Artūras Jomantas, Antanas Kavaliauskas, Deividas Gailius, Artūras Gudaitis, Adas Juškevičius, Gediminas Orelikas and Marius Runkauskas. Not to mention Žygimantas Janavičius and Rokas Giedraitis whom Rytas had earlier this year.

    I mean it's a team I'd hope to see do well. Yet its results have been disappointing. What's wrong?


  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    What the hell is wrong with Lietuvos Rytas? The team performed poorly in the Eurocup competition and is now down 2-0 to a Klaipėda Neptūnas team without a single player that might even merit a second glance from Coach Kazlauskas.

    Meanwhile Rytas is loaded with both past and potential Team Lietuva players, Kšištofas Lavrinovičius, Mindaugas Lukauskis, Artūras Jomantas, Antanas Kavaliauskas, Deividas Gailius, Artūras Gudaitis, Adas Juškevičius, Gediminas Orelikas and Marius Runkauskas. Not to mention Žygimantas Janavičius and Rokas Giedraitis whom Rytas had earlier this year.

    I mean it's a team I'd hope to see do well. Yet its results have been disappointing. What's wrong?

    IMO, 2 main reasons: lack of proper PG and non-defensive, soft roster. Most of these players are poor defenders. All season Rytas couldn't find true flour general, guards lineup is weak and inconsistent.

    Neptunas just playing tougher, they have strong guards, wings, frontcourt and they have game finisher in Daniel Ewing. Zalgiris tried to grabb him and he's way better than Randle. I really like how Mazeika is playing, I think he's a borderline NT material, playing hard.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    IMO, 2 main reasons: lack of proper PG and non-defensive, soft roster. Most of these players are poor defenders. All season Rytas couldn't find true flour general, guards lineup is weak and inconsistent.

    Neptunas just playing tougher, they have strong guards, wings, frontcourt and they have game finisher in Daniel Ewing. Zalgiris tried to grabb him and he's way better than Randle. I really like how Mazeika is playing, I think he's a borderline NT material, playing hard.
    Agree on PGs. Rytas just doesn't have any of them and would kill for someone like Ewing. Kendrick Brown, Lukashov are joke. Another reason is Adomaitis, he had some flaws here and there, f.e. keeping Siksnius too long at times, but he is just outsmarting Pacesas. Latter even tried today to put Kavaliauskas back to center...after playin' him as PF for months, forcing shoot triples... but Antanas got injured.
    Regarding Mazeika, he is nowhere close to NT material IMO, Neptunas is his ceiling. He would be lost in Zalgiris or Rytas rotation, let alone NT. He is just another player for whom current role is perfect - a leader in smaller club.
    Regarding series, its far from over. IMO Rytas surely can turn it into own favour. They should win next game at home and then all the pressure will be on Neptunas, I doubt they'll be able to withstand, even with Zavackas back


  14. #54
    Senior Member Svajunas's Avatar
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    At the start of the season I thought that Rytas roster is better then Zalgiris. All those names, young players ready to take the next step and good role players. However the team never found its identity. The biggest dissapointment for me is Gailius. I expected him to be the same aggresive player as he was in Neptunas. Maybe coaching or maybe he himself is to blame, who knows? Gudaitis is a ghost of himsell... Giedraitis was ok at the start of the season, but then the coaches started to put him in somekind of a role, when we see that he shines the most when is getting constant touches and shots. At the end Pacesas sent him out, when he is clearly one of those players with winning characters, who cares about playing more then money. Then overplaying Lukauskis... for all the good he does on defense , he is quite poor on offence, where defenses can cheat on him. Their PG choices are terrible as well... So yeah, I dont think there is one thing wrong with a team, rather many. Who to blame? Probably Purlys, if he is responsible for the roster.

    Anyway its kind of sad, that there are not other basketball maniacs in Vilnius, who would consider starting another basketball club. Move up from RKL to NKL to LKL. Because we know that the money circulating in Vilnius is probably twice as much as in Kaunas, so there shouldnt be to hard to find investors.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svajunas View Post
    Anyway its kind of sad, that there are not other basketball maniacs in Vilnius, who would consider starting another basketball club. Move up from RKL to NKL to LKL. Because we know that the money circulating in Vilnius is probably twice as much as in Kaunas, so there shouldnt be to hard to find investors.
    First of all you need millions to send vainauskas to Mars, then maybe you will be able to establish new club. Don't be naive to think that he would allow that to happen until his is running his dear Rytas. His influence is huge, not as big as it was before, when he could allow himself to blackmail Zalgiris sponsors and force them to give money to Rytas instead, but he is still powerfull person, as long as media is. There were people who wanted to buy BC Rytas from him lately and/or invest more money, but with a condition, that he'll be gone - he told them to fck off... The main problem of Rytas was, is and will be - vainauskas. He is a cancer of Vilnius basketball. First he buried 30 years tradition of Statyba, with all the history, legendary players, and even generations of fans, instead keeping it and let blossom. Now he is even fcking his own project.
    With Kaunas it's different, it doesn't have such money, but have 70 years of tradition, devoted generations of fans, a thing more important than money itself. So Zalgiris went throught all the hard times it had, survived lot of mess, including attacks of the same vainauskas, including own cancer romanov


  16. #56
    Senior Member Svajunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    First of all you need millions to send vainauskas to Mars, then maybe you will be able to establish new club. Don't be naive to think that he would allow that to happen until his is running his dear Rytas. His influence is huge, not as big as it was before, when he could allow himself to blackmail Zalgiris sponsors and force them to give money to Rytas instead, but he is still powerfull person, as long as media is. There were people who wanted to buy BC Rytas from him lately and/or invest more money, but with a condition, that he'll be gone - he told them to fck off... The main problem of Rytas was, is and will be - vainauskas. He is a cancer of Vilnius basketball. First he buried 30 years tradition of Statyba, with all the history, legendary players, and even generations of fans, instead keeping it and let blossom. Now he is even fcking his own project.
    With Kaunas it's different, it doesn't have such money, but have 70 years of tradition, devoted generations of fans, a thing more important than money itself. So Zalgiris went throught all the hard times it had, survived lot of mess, including attacks of the same vainauskas, including own cancer romanov
    I guess youre right. Still I hope someone who loves basketball enough to do something about it will step up.

  17. #57
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Perhaps Sakalai can be brought back like a phoenix from the ashes.


  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Perhaps Sakalai can be brought back like a phoenix from the ashes.

    Sakalai means "Falcons" as probably you know, so they won't rise from ashes I'm afraid To be precise, they also has crazy owner, who destroyed own club, so I guess they are done. If I'd try to ressurect smth, I'd go with Statyba without a doubt. History is there, some fans are still there, sentiments should be there and you have good background to start it all over again, all you need is good investments, cause in Vilnius it's hard to get longterm attention only by presenting name, you need to show results too. The same Rytas played in half-empty arena in their last Euroleague season, even against such clubs like Barcelona. Simply cause roster was not up to expectations. People in capital city are a bit spoiled, for lot of people basketball is just another way to have fun, not a lifestyle. If there's roster/results - you'll attract people to arena, if not - there are concerts, clubs, cinemas and etc.
    Anyway, Rytas is still there and will be in nearest future. Hard to say what further future holds, I really hope for miracle to happen and vainauskas to go away and some serious people to take over the club or establish new one. Basketball in Vilnius really has potential to go back to where it was in last decade or in time when Statyba won bronze in Soviet league, which was huge achievement


  19. #59
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    The main problem of Rytas was, is and will be - Vainauskas. He is a cancer of Vilnius basketball. First he buried 30 years tradition of Statyba, with all the history, legendary players, and even generations of fans, instead keeping it and let blossom. Now he is even fcking his own project.

    If I'd try to ressurect smth, I'd go with Statyba without a doubt. History is there, some fans are still there, sentiments should be there and you have good background to start it all over again, all you need is good investments
    Wasn't Statyba just renamed Lietuvos Rytas, or was Rytas an entirely different outfit from the start?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Sakalai means "Falcons" as probably you know, so they won't rise from ashes I'm afraid To be precise, they also has crazy owner, who destroyed own club, so I guess they are done.
    Wasn't the ownership "problem" with Sakalai one of basically no budget whatsoever for players?


  20. #60
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Wasn't Statyba just renamed Lietuvos Rytas, or was Rytas an entirely different outfit from the start?
    Back in 90s Vainauskas needed a place for his new project in LKL, but it was not easy to get, while Statyba was goin' throught very bad times back then - no sponsors, no money. So vainauskas made a plan - he became a sponsor of Statyba, for one season he renamed the club to "Statyba-Lietuvos Rytas", acquired LKL license this way and very next season kicked Statyba's name out to bin, announcing that Rytas is completely new club. Basically he used Statyba like surrogate mother for Rytas. He even prohibited to chant "Statyba" in club home games, all Statyba fans, who did that and also didn't agree to wear new colours and chant "Rytas" were kicked out of arena too, instead he bought new ones, literally, for beer. Old Statyba was re-established by fans few years ago, even played in NKL, but then dissapeared again. Don't know if it's still alive, maybe playin' in some amateur league

    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Wasn't the ownership "problem" with Sakalai one of basically no budget whatsoever for players?

    More or less, yes. No money, huge debts, lies and promises to players, administration. Usual stuff. Club was drowning in debts few years, but owner was refusing to sell it, wanted to manage it and still get money... It's sad, club had probably the best fan group in LT, club brought to light players like Siskauskas, Jasaitis, Seibutis, Andrius Giedraitis, Salenga, Kuzminskas, Gecevicius


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