Player naturalisations

[Srle]

it's none of my business but I suspect these are all excuses needed to convince oneself. These stories are very similar to what we have heard about McCalebb (or about some others).

Actually she's not the first naturalized athlete in Serbian sport . There are few others who might represent us in Rio , there is a Russian swimmer and Russian judoka for example . But yes , I was sold on Page for all those reasons , when it was announced that she would be the first naturalized basketball player in our basketball history, the public reactions were mostly negative , but the way she carried herself , her personal sacrifice for our national team have changed the minds of many people, she had a very warm reception on the balcony of our national assembly But I agree with Exitche, I would never accept naturalized player on our male national teams , to me personally , its the holly institution of Serbian sport that would be the sacrilege

[boz74]

I vehemently oppose this view. Koufos participation in the Greek NT is 100% legit. The man is Greek. Simple as that.

He is an American basketball player, who incidentally happens to be of Greek origin.

This man speaks fluently Greek and is very attached to the Greek American community. Just this summer he got married to a Greek-American woman. He once went to school carrying the Greek flag when Greece eliminated the USA at the WC in 2006. Calathes is more Americanized, but still. He is a Greek American.

Keyword being: American.

Millions of people learn Greek, that does not make them Greek. Similarily, having learned English does not make you American or English.

As for players such as Antetokoumpo. Not even worth discussing as they are born and raised in Greece. So if they choose to represent Greece than it goes without saying that they have every right to do so.

Exactly. In fact it shouldn't even be their choice to make: they simply shouldn't be eligible for any country other than Greece. Their "ethnic connection" to the country of their parents is of no importance, since the teams are national teams, not ethnic teams.

[Mindozas]

Great logic. Thnx to it, I just found out that Domantas Sabonis is not Lithuanian, but Spanish-American. He was born in US, grew up in Spain, so the country of his parents is not important, he must play for US or Spain, not Lithuania, it's national, not ethnic teams

[mchale]

He is an American basketball player, who incidentally happens to be of Greek origin.

Not incidentally.That his two parents were greek citizens it's a fact not incident and according to FIBA rules he is eligible to play as greek(not naturalized) in the Greek NT.Also according to the laws of the greek state he is a greek citizen.So I don't see the point.

Keyword being: American.

Millions of people learn Greek, that does not make them Greek. Similarily, having learned English does not make you American or Englis

Keyword: Dual nationality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship

[Victorious]

Greeks born abroad may transmit citizenship to their children from generation to generation indefinitely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_nationality_law

The Greek federation is abiding by the rules of the nationality law of Greece. There is no player in the Greek NT who bypassed this legal mainframe.

[boz74]

Great logic. Thnx to it, I just found out that Domantas Sabonis is not Lithuanian, but Spanish-American. He was born in US, grew up in Spain, so the country of his parents is not important, he must play for US or Spain, not Lithuania, it's national, not ethnic teams

You are correct: he should only be allowed to play for Spain or the USA, unless he is not a citizen of either country.

The country of his parents should indeed make no difference (see Tony Parker).

[boz74]

Not incidentally.That his two parents were greek citizens it's a fact not incident and according to FIBA rules he is eligible to play as greek(not naturalized) in the Greek NT.Also according to the laws of the greek state he is a greek citizen.So I don't see the point.

Of course he's eligible according to FIBA rules. The point is that he shouldn't be.

Also according to the laws of the greek state Batiste is a Greek citizen (I'm assuming he did indeed get his citizenship) and so too are plenty of others.

Keyword: Dual nationality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship

So you discovered that people can have multiple citizenships. That's great. And your point is?

[boz74]

There is no player in the Greek NT who bypassed this legal mainframe.

No one claimed that there was.

The point is that merely being a Greek citizen shouldn't be enough to be eligible for the national team. Indeed you yourself have argued that naturalized players shouldn't be eligible, so quite obviously you agree that a mere citizenship isn't enough.

[Mindozas]

You are correct: he should only be allowed to play for Spain or the USA, unless he is not a citizen of either country.

The country of his parents should indeed make no difference (see Tony Parker).

Unless... he is a child born in Lithuanian family... but in US, cause his father was not that bad bball player and played in NBA, but kid was raised as Lithuanian with all the traditions/language, but not in Lithuania, cause again, his father played in USA and decided to live in Spain after that for some time to keep his family away from all the sick attention coming from Lith media. So kid grew up as Lithuanian, feels himself Lithuanian and can't play for his country cause his father played abroad and kept his family with him? Do you realise how ridiculous it sounds? I could agree that grandparents shouldn't count as some connection to country, but to say that parents should make no difference is insane, especially in current times with open borders, European Union and etc. when so many people are looking for the better living abroad, raising childs there and etc.

[boz74]

Unless... he is a child born in Lithuanian family...

No, that shouldn't make him eligible for the Lithuanian national team. Again: see Tony Parker.

but in US, cause his father was not that bad bball player and played in NBA, but kid was raised as Lithuanian with all the traditions/language, but not in Lithuania, cause again, his father played in USA and decided to live in Spain after that for some time to keep his family away from all the sick attention coming from Lith media. So kid grew up as Lithuanian, feels himself Lithuanian and can't play for his country cause his father played abroad and kept his family with him?

None of the above is even remotely relevant to the Lithuanian basketball national team. He's not a product of Lith bball, there is nohing Lithuanian about him as a basketball player. The reasons why make no difference.

Do you realise how ridiculous it sounds?

That's not ridiculous at all. For the record, these are the rules used by the IIHF, an equally respectable organization.

What is ridiculous is the idea that someone should be allowed in a country's national sports team just because he has learned the language or has a parent from there or likes that country's cuisine and god knows what other irrelevant trivia you might come up with.

I could agree that grandparents shouldn't count as some connection to country, but to say that parents should make no difference is insane, especially in current times with open borders, European Union and etc. when so many people are looking for the better living abroad, raising childs there and etc.

The children raised in Germany should embrace the idea of joining the German national team.

That the borders are open is exactly why the parents' nationality will become increasingly irrelevant. The funny idea that your parents' nationality define you in any way will die out eventually as more and more people will realise they are defined by the country they grew up in, not the country of their parents.

See Adetokoumbo and Parker as examples. Parker's father went looking for the better living abroad, as you put it, and as a result his son is a French bb player, not an American one, as much as you might hate to admit it. There's absolutely nothing "insane" about that.

[Mindozas]

What the hell Parker has to do with it? His father was who - American, mother Dutch, he was born in Belgium and raised in France... what did you expect him to choose? with which country he had the biggest conection? Obviously it was France. What the hell IIHF has to do with it? Is it some ministery of truth or right decisions or smth? It isn't. They has good rule to forbid McCalebb cases, that's all. Overall it's plain and simple sane logic - kid of Lithuanian parents must be allowed to play for Lithuanian NT. The same goes for any such case. Period. Kid might choose differently, like the same Parker did, if he doesn't feel any connections with country of his birth or with countries of his parents, but there must be no restrictions in cases like Domantas, thankfully there are not and atleast FIBA makes smth sane. Hopefully someday they will kick all the McCalebbs from NTs either

[boz74]

What the hell Parker has to do with it? His father was who - American, mother Dutch, he was born in Belgium and raised in France... what did you expect him to choose? with which country he had the biggest conection? Obviously it was France.

I don't think it takes a genius to see what Parker has to do with this discussion: his situation is similar to Koufos and Sabonis Jr.

Parker chose the country he grew up in (where he wasn't even born as you noted), not the country of his parents. Not that he should even have been allowed to choose, mind you.

What the hell IIHF has to do with it?

They have implemented the rules that you find "insane".

Last time I checked, they are not any more "insane" than FIBA.

Their rules make perfect sense, and I for one think their rules are much better than FIBA's, or any other international body for that matter.

They have done a great job eliminating most of the "oriundi" that populated the national teams of Italy, France or Britain, and these countries are much better off for it.

All the oriundi (like Koufos) have to do is go play two seasons in the country they wish to represent. If they are such patriots that shouldn't be too much to ask.

They has good rule to forbid McCalebb cases, that's all. Overall it's plain and simple sane logic - kid of Lithuanian parents must be allowed to play for Lithuanian NT.

Whether or not a kid of Lithuanian parents should be allowed to play for the Lithuanian national team has absolutely nothing to do with "logic", it is merely a matter of opinion.

Indeed you have failed to come up with any rational argument one way or the other, all you have done is repeating that disagreeing with you is "insane" or "ridiculous"; thats is: you're merely stating your opinion.

[Mindozas]

Indeed you have failed to come up with any rational argument one way or the other, all you have done is repeating that disagreeing with you is "insane" or "ridiculous"; thats is: you're merely stating your opinion.

And you feel you did smth different? And Of course, it looks irrational when kid of Lith parents is allowed to play in LT NT... I rest my case here, felt that it might be time wasting since first post - approved

[boz74]

And you feel you did smth different? And Of course, it looks irrational when kid of Lith parents is allowed to play in LT NT... I rest my case here, felt that it might be time wasting since first post - approved

We both have been stating our opinions, since the disagreement is about opinions, and not "logic". Thanks for making my point.

And of course, it looks perfectly rational to disallow a kid of Lith parents to play for the Lith NT if he never actually played there. Just because you disagree with something does not make it "irrational".

It is indeed a waste of time discussing with someone like you who is so utterly unable to distinguish his mere opinions from "facts" or "logic".

[Storžievis]

We both have been stating our opinions, since the disagreement is about opinions, and not "logic". Thanks for making my point.

And of course, it looks perfectly rational to disallow a kid of Lith parents to play for the Lith NT if he never actually played there. Just because you disagree with something does not make it "irrational".

It is indeed a waste of time discussing with someone like you who is so utterly unable to distinguish his mere opinions from "facts" or "logic".

If I may interject, there are many reasons why there is nothing irrational that Sabonis would play for Lithuania.
1) He was born to Lithuanian parents
2) His name is Lithuanian
3) He speaks in Lithuanian
4) He has represented Lithuanian youth teams since 16 years old = he feels Lithuanian

He is not product of Lithuanian basketball system but so is national team member Pocius, Songaila, Jasikevicius and so on other players who plaid in USA high school and college system. So your argument is not valid.

Yes, Lithuania basketball federation could be asses and not allow Sabonis to play but FIBA on reason 4 above will not be able to stop Sabonis from participation. He has American and Lithuanian citizenship, not Spanish afaik.

Naturalised players should not be allowed when they have no connection to country that they playing for. Example: Langford, Rice, Jeter, McCalebb and other Americans. Sabonis is much closer to homeland than any of those players.