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Thread: Player naturalisations

  1. #1
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    Default Player naturalisations

    Naturalizations over all are pretty much ok for me but this current situation in basketball is simply very stupid.

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    I am not against neutralizing but there must be a logic to select players who are neutralized. There must be some rules for that

    1. Players who already have European passport cannot be neutralized such as Preldzic, Begic, Mirkovic etc

    2. Other continent players must play at least 3 years in the country where they will play for if they play in another league current season. And they can be neutralized after 1st year.

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    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTEGRAL View Post
    I am not against neutralizing but there must be a logic to select players who are neutralized. There must be some rules for that

    1. Players who already have European passport cannot be neutralized such as Preldzic, Begic, Mirkovic etc

    2. Other continent players must play at least 3 years in the country where they will play for if they play in another league current season. And they can be neutralized after 1st year.
    No one needs neutralized players


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    No one needs neutralized players
    Haha why not?

    Enemy down

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    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joško Poljak Fan View Post
    The list of absences is getting longer by the day

    Goran Dragič 99% won't play
    Edo Murič, injured his shoulder
    Domen and Erazem Lorbek, first one chronical injuries, second one reportedly hasn't yet started practicing
    Mirza Begič - needs a summer off with his knees


    Players invited to the NT, 4 will join from the B NT
    Jaka Blažič
    Jure Balažič
    Žiga Dimec
    Zoran Dragič
    Bryant Dunston *
    Nebojša Joksimovič
    Jaka Klobučar
    Alen Omič *
    Klemen Prepelič
    Uroš Slokar
    Gašper Vidmar

    with the 4-5 players mentioned above missing that's a severely limited roster.
    Slovenia are going easy way too with american ? Lithuania and Serbs basically only 2 left countries which still goes playing their own boys...Most likely these 2 countries has biggest pride and tradicion of their basketball history...I read what teodocis said about naturalised players,its like 80% lithuanians think too.

    Heck one day we should do same pay money to nba PG and with our depth and big frontcouart definetely would be in favorite list before champ.But the problem is that the "taste of wins" woudnt be the same...
    Last edited by Shawshank; 06-16-2015 at 12:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    But the problem is that the "taste of wins" woudnt be the same...
    Amen. In Finland if you marry a Finn, speak proper finnish (test is very hard and our language is extremely hard) and live at least 3 years in Finland it is possible to be Finn. If you don't marry a Finn it's even two times harder. It is possible that you come from somewhere like 1 year old and you get passport when you are 18. And if you get passport you have to go to army. You have to.

    If every countries would have such a rules there would not be problem at all.

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    Senior Member Picek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Most likely these 2 countries has biggest pride and tradicion of their basketball history...I read what teodocis said about naturalised players,its like 80% lithuanians think too.
    .
    serbian women basketball team currently playing at EC includes a player called Danielle Page from Colorado, USA. At the last EC serbian women team was fourth, then playing without a foreign player.
    who knows what the future will bring...
    But I agree, majority of the fans are against that, the only thing is we are not the ones who decide on that. Unfortunately.
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    The Greek Federation has taken a stand against naturalisations for years, although we could have used a big man such as Mike Batiste, who lived in the country for about 10 years and had every right to citizenship. They say that such a move would be bad for team chemistry, and unfair to the young Greek guys who aspire to play for the NT. That said, we have no problem with using Greek-Americans who do not even speak the language, such as Koufos and Calathes. And now we have Giannis Antetokounmpo, who is the son of an imiigrant family, but was born and raised and lived his whole life in Greece. It's a complicated situation, and there are no "rights" or "wrongs". I can certainly tell you that everyone here was very sarcastic and bitter when we lost to a FYROM team led by an American who barely knew where Skopje was back in 2009. But we laughed our heads off with JR Holden's winner for Russia two years earlier. At least Holden used to live and work in Moscow for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Svoura View Post
    The Greek Federation has taken a stand against naturalisations for years, although we could have used a big man such as Mike Batiste, who lived in the country for about 10 years and had every right to citizenship. They say that such a move would be bad for team chemistry, and unfair to the young Greek guys who aspire to play for the NT. That said, we have no problem with using Greek-Americans who do not even speak the language, such as Koufos and Calathes. And now we have Giannis Antetokounmpo, who is the son of an imiigrant family, but was born and raised and lived his whole life in Greece. It's a complicated situation, and there are no "rights" or "wrongs".
    Antetokounmpo was born and raised in Greece, of course he should play for his country Greece. It's beyond me why he's even in this conversation.

    Batiste playing for Greece would have made a lot more sense than Koufos, at least Batiste lived in Greece and played there for years. Once Batiste becomes a Greek citizen, he's certainly more of a Greek basketball player than Koufos, no matter which way you slice it.

    FIBA should adopt IIHF rules, where a player like Koufos would only be eligible for Greece after 2 years in the Greek league. The idea that someone qualifies to a national team solely based on his "heritage" is ludicrous.

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    You have a point, but plase keep in mind that Koufos has played for the Greek national teams (from U18 to Men's) around 50 times,on three separate summers. Also, both his parents are 100% Greek. It's not an empty heritage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Svoura View Post
    You have a point, but plase keep in mind that Koufos has played for the Greek national teams (from U18 to Men's) around 50 times,on three separate summers. Also, both his parents are 100% Greek. It's not an empty heritage.
    Yes he played for Greek national teams, but shouldn't have been allowed to. He should have had to play in the Greek league first to even become eligible.

    And his parents could be from Mars for all I care, it shouldn't make any difference either way.

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    I am totally against it , its ruining the purpose of the national team competitions . But I must to admit , Danielle Page really have grown on me , she is basically volunteer in our women national basketball team, she doesn't have any monetary contract with our basketball federation, she even learned to sing our national anthem , because she wanted to, she completed the entire preparations before women Eurobasket , with our national team, and she played her butt off and in the process helped us won the women eurobasket for the first time in our basketball history , she's a very special person. But hopefully she's the first and last naturalize player for Serbia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle View Post
    I am totally against it , its ruining the purpose of the national team competitions . But I must to admit , Danielle Page really have grown on me , she is basically volunteer in our women national basketball team, she doesn't have any monetary contract with our basketball federation, she even learned to sing our national anthem , because she wanted to, she completed the entire preparations before women Eurobasket , with our national team, and she played her butt off and in the process helped us won the women eurobasket for the first time in our basketball history , she's a very special person. But hopefully she's the first and last naturalize player for Serbia.
    this ^ another thing is i dont care about women bball and i dont follow it i dont watch it so its not important for me,but the moment we naturalize player(i mean some american player that never had anything to do with Serbia) i will not care for Serbian men NT,i mean i alredy have one club that i like and im its fan,it is Red Star
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    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle View Post
    I am totally against it , its ruining the purpose of the national team competitions . But I must to admit , Danielle Page really have grown on me , she is basically volunteer in our women national basketball team, she doesn't have any monetary contract with our basketball federation, she even learned to sing our national anthem , because she wanted to, she completed the entire preparations before women Eurobasket , with our national team, and she played her butt off and in the process helped us won the women eurobasket for the first time in our basketball history , she's a very special person. But hopefully she's the first and last naturalize player for Serbia.
    it's none of my business but I suspect these are all excuses needed to convince oneself. These stories are very similar to what we have heard about McCalebb (or about some others).
    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

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    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle View Post
    I am totally against it , its ruining the purpose of the national team competitions . But I must to admit , Danielle Page really have grown on me , she is basically volunteer in our women national basketball team, she doesn't have any monetary contract with our basketball federation, she even learned to sing our national anthem , because she wanted to, she completed the entire preparations before women Eurobasket , with our national team, and she played her butt off and in the process helped us won the women eurobasket for the first time in our basketball history , she's a very special person. But hopefully she's the first and last naturalize player for Serbia.
    I vehemently oppose this view. Koufos participation in the Greek NT is 100% legit. The man is Greek. Simple as that. This man speaks fluently Greek and is very attached to the Greek American community. Just this summer he got married to a Greek-American woman. He once went to school carrying the Greek flag when Greece eliminated the USA at the WC in 2006. Calathes is more Americanized, but still. He is a Greek American. Surely, both this players could have chosen to play for the USA if they had the potential to do that. That would have been fair enough, but they choose to represent Greece given their Greek heritage. This sounds very reasonable to me.

    In my opinion the Greek federation has kept its stand. Any player of Greek origin can play for Greece if he desire to do so. This has been their policy since the 60s and it has brought a lot of success for Greek basketball.
    As for players such as Antetokoumpo. Not even worth discussing as they are born and raised in Greece. So if they choose to represent Greece than it goes without saying that they have every right to do so.

    I am actually against the naturalization of players who are neither born, raised, nor have any ethnic connection to that country. Playing pro-basketball in that country for a few years does not suffice. So no. Mike Batiste playing for Greece, as much as I like him, would not have been right. He made the offer at times, but the Greek federation rightfully declined the offer.
    Last edited by Victorious; 07-15-2015 at 11:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    it's none of my business but I suspect these are all excuses needed to convince oneself. These stories are very similar to what we have heard about McCalebb (or about some others).
    Actually she's not the first naturalized athlete in Serbian sport . There are few others who might represent us in Rio , there is a Russian swimmer and Russian judoka for example . But yes , I was sold on Page for all those reasons , when it was announced that she would be the first naturalized basketball player in our basketball history, the public reactions were mostly negative , but the way she carried herself , her personal sacrifice for our national team have changed the minds of many people, she had a very warm reception on the balcony of our national assembly But I agree with Exitche, I would never accept naturalized player on our male national teams , to me personally , its the holly institution of Serbian sport that would be the sacrilege
    Last edited by Srle; 07-16-2015 at 01:26 AM.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    I vehemently oppose this view. Koufos participation in the Greek NT is 100% legit. The man is Greek. Simple as that.
    He is an American basketball player, who incidentally happens to be of Greek origin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    This man speaks fluently Greek and is very attached to the Greek American community. Just this summer he got married to a Greek-American woman. He once went to school carrying the Greek flag when Greece eliminated the USA at the WC in 2006. Calathes is more Americanized, but still. He is a Greek American.
    Keyword being: American.

    Millions of people learn Greek, that does not make them Greek. Similarily, having learned English does not make you American or English.


    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    As for players such as Antetokoumpo. Not even worth discussing as they are born and raised in Greece. So if they choose to represent Greece than it goes without saying that they have every right to do so.
    Exactly. In fact it shouldn't even be their choice to make: they simply shouldn't be eligible for any country other than Greece. Their "ethnic connection" to the country of their parents is of no importance, since the teams are national teams, not ethnic teams.

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    Great logic. Thnx to it, I just found out that Domantas Sabonis is not Lithuanian, but Spanish-American. He was born in US, grew up in Spain, so the country of his parents is not important, he must play for US or Spain, not Lithuania, it's national, not ethnic teams


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    He is an American basketball player, who incidentally happens to be of Greek origin.
    Not incidentally.That his two parents were greek citizens it's a fact not incident and according to FIBA rules he is eligible to play as greek(not naturalized) in the Greek NT.Also according to the laws of the greek state he is a greek citizen.So I don't see the point.

    Keyword being: American.

    Millions of people learn Greek, that does not make them Greek. Similarily, having learned English does not make you American or Englis
    Keyword: Dual nationality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship

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    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Greeks born abroad may transmit citizenship to their children from generation to generation indefinitely.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_nationality_law

    The Greek federation is abiding by the rules of the nationality law of Greece. There is no player in the Greek NT who bypassed this legal mainframe.
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