Maccabi Tel Aviv 2015/16

[maccabeo]

Did you make up these stats?! Lol!

u are right. i had to write exact numbers
mekel 3p 28,6%
ohayon 5,5 points 25,5 min played (34% by 2points)

[ran222]

Higgins is just one candidate. I think that Elliot Williams is stronger candidate

Higgins is way better than williams imo, with better upside.

I follow him closely for years, i actually wanted him in yellow a year ago after his great season in russia.

He now knows the european style and he has great stats vs opp. Over 50% in the turkish league- so he already proved he can provide against top turkish clubs which are euroleague level

[Metec]

PG : Rochestie , Mekel , Ohayon
SG : ??? , Landsberg
SF : Smith , Pnini , Bender
PF : Maclean , Randle , Cohen
C : Mbakwe , Fisher .

This roster is not realistic.
New rule in the Israeli league force every team to have 1 Israeli player younger than 25 and 2 Israeli players younger than 22.
In the given roster we have 0 Israeli players that are under 25! Maccabi can bring youngsters just to warm the bench in the Israeli league games... But attending each game with just 9 real roster players seems like a very radical move, even for Maccabi.

I hope that Maccabi learned its lesson after this terrible season, for too long Maccabi abused Israeli players, and this year they payed for it. In the past Maccabi was the dream for every Israeli player, today players willing to get less money just to stay out from Maccabi.

To be honest, I'm not very optimistic right now.
Mekel and Ohayon are to similar players, In a perfect world I would have replaced one of them with Shawn Dawson... Even though he said that he didn't want to play in Maccabi, We may think of some creative solutions for the problem (Maybe a special contract like Casspi had will do the job).

Bender feels like a real burden on the team. He is to young, his numbers in the Israeli second division are not impressive (Ben Altit outplayed him last season). I understand that he is young and making a big progress every summer, But he is still not ready to bring value to top 10 European team. I hope to see him on loan in the coming season.

My opinion on Rochestie signing will derive from our next signing. If we won't bring a top class SG that can penetrate consistently to the paint. Then we will have a season where Rochestie scoring big numbers again small teams but when the money will be on the line and we will face the big names the defenders will just stay close to him all the time and we will not have anyone to slice the defense.

In my opinion, if we are not bringing a very high level guard, we would not be able to put a decent team. No matter who will fill the 4,5 spots.

[maccabeo]

This roster is not realistic.
New rule in the Israeli league force every team to have 1 Israeli player younger than 25 and 2 Israeli players younger than 22.
In the given roster we have 0 Israeli players that are under 25! Maccabi can bring youngsters just to warm the bench in the Israeli league games... But attending each game with just 9 real roster players seems like a very radical move, even for Maccabi.

I hope that Maccabi learned its lesson after this terrible season, for too long Maccabi abused Israeli players, and this year they payed for it. In the past Maccabi was the dream for every Israeli player, today players willing to get less money just to stay out from Maccabi.

To be honest, I'm not very optimistic right now.
Mekel and Ohayon are to similar players, In a perfect world I would have replaced one of them with Shawn Dawson... Even though he said that he didn't want to play in Maccabi, We may think of some creative solutions for the problem (Maybe a special contract like Casspi had will do the job).

Bender feels like a real burden on the team. He is to young, his numbers in the Israeli second division are not impressive (Ben Altit outplayed him last season). I understand that he is young and making a big progress every summer, But he is still not ready to bring value to top 10 European team. I hope to see him on loan in the coming season.

My opinion on Rochestie signing will derive from our next signing. If we won't bring a top class SG that can penetrate consistently to the paint. Then we will have a season where Rochestie scoring big numbers again small teams but when the money will be on the line and we will face the big names the defenders will just stay close to him all the time and we will not have anyone to slice the defense.

In my opinion, if we are not bringing a very high level guard, we would not be able to put a decent team. No matter who will fill the 4,5 spots.

totally agree

[TheMirror]

I say even more than that - I think Maccabi has deliberately given up on its Israeli roster.
Apparently they found out that losing Israeli championships (~half of the championships of the past few years) doesn't hurt the brand, in their perception. They put more emphasis on results in Europe.
That's why they gave up fighting for Israeli players who they think are not good enough for EL, and ignored the youngsters rule as stated above (filling the needed spots primarily with poster boys).
For the short term they may be right. For the longer term I think they are making a big mistake. When they lose more championships than they win, or lose titles consecutively - not unrealistic in the new landscape of Israeli basketball - the brand will get hurt eventually. And then it will be very difficult, and take time, to fix.

[Metec]

I say even more than that - I think Maccabi has deliberately given up on its Israeli roster.
Apparently they found out that losing Israeli championships (~half of the championships of the past few years) doesn't hurt the brand, in their perception. They put more emphasis on results in Europe.
That's why they gave up fighting for Israeli players who they think are not good enough for EL, and ignored the youngsters rule as stated above (filling the needed spots primarily with poster boys).
For the short term they may be right. For the longer term I think they are making a big mistake. When they lose more championships than they win, or lose titles consecutively - not unrealistic in the new landscape of Israeli basketball - the brand will get hurt eventually. And then it will be very difficult, and take time, to fix.

I'm totally agreeing with you.

I just add that the championship from Jerusalem is unique.
All the other teams were a one year fluke, you haven't been able to see continuity or European presence for them.
Jerusalem on the other hand have some real big aspirations, And they took the championship in a very impressive way.

Jerusalem also willing to fight for Israeli talent (Halperin, Eliyahu) and understand that it must invest in young guys because nobody else will do it for them.
We see a clash of strategies, and at this point of time I put my money on Jerusalem.

[TheMirror]

The question is whether Maccabi is even willing to fight for the top Israeli players anymore. I doubt that. Like I said, their thinking is in terms of "what hurts the brand". As long as they think Israeli championships don't matter to the brand, they will not fight for the top Israeli players like they should at this time.
In their minds, that's what I think, top Israeli players are bad in terms of value for money. They are expensive, they have a huge tax overhead (much bigger than American players, due to a bilateral tax treaty with the US), and most of them are not good enough for the EL which is what really keeps the brand alive.

One more thing about Israeli player rules - especially regarding the youngsters rule: it's time Maccabi understands that these rules aren't going to go away. They are here to stay, and if anything, they will get even more draconian with time. It's a waste of effort to fight them or whine about them. If you are willing to maintain your status as THE powerhouse in the Israeli league, you should adapt to them. It's not rocket science.
Unfortunately, I don't think they are willing to, until it hurts their pocket.

[Roy M]

I can speak by myself:
I don't care about the domestic League.
Until you won't finish bottom then 7th place, and advance at least to the top 16, MTA guarantee the A license

[TheMirror]

I know some Maccabi fans who share your view (I'm not one of them). I think the team management, in a way, also shares it, as long as they feel it doesn't hurt the brand.
But eventually it WILL hurt the brand if you become just another team in the Israeli league. And a dent in the brand will hurt management's pockets, which will mean a harder time in Europe as well.

[Roy M]

I know some Maccabi fans who share your view (I'm not one of them). I think the team management, in a way, also shares it, as long as they feel it doesn't hurt the brand.
But eventually it WILL hurt the brand if you become just another team in the Israeli league. And a dent in the brand will hurt management's pockets, which will mean a harder time in Europe as well.

You can use your Theory in both ways.
Your thoghts, and my, which cost nothing in the EL.

Both can't prove our ways, so it can stay as an academic discassion

[TheMirror]

I don't think it's academic. If I'm right and that's what management thinks, the brand name Maccabi Tel Aviv will suffer in a real way.
by the way, that's why I don't believe the Mekel rumors either. I'll believe it when I see it in an official signing message.

[maccabeo]

i think mta brand name depend just on el results, but our main problem is our licence a.
a licence will guarantee top 16 simply because of our nokia factor. i think sould be clear, owners goal is the top16 every year and they can get it without investing money. if they are luck we could even get some playoff but theyr goal is the top 16, a goal not so expensive. without licence a , they would be forced to invest, even to win il league so even investin on il best guys.
the market after the title won, should be view as a clear delclaration of mediocre plans and economic possibilities,

[Metec]

i think mta brand name depend just on el results, but our main problem is our licence a.
a licence will guarantee top 16 simply because of our nokia factor. i think sould be clear, owners goal is the top16 every year and they can get it without investing money. if they are luck we could even get some playoff but theyr goal is the top 16, a goal not so expensive. without licence a , they would be forced to invest, even to win il league so even investin on il best guys.
the market after the title won, should be view as a clear delclaration of mediocre plans and economic possibilities,

Maccabis main goal is TOP 8 not TOP 16. You can't say that our goal is TOP 16, we achieved TOP 8 for almost every year in the new millennium... You can't do it by mistake.

EL results was the decisive factor till this year because Israeli league was taken for granted. Now you see a real threat from Jerusalem. If Jerusalem will win 3 championships in a row it won't hurt Maccabi?!? off course it will. Maccabi still have a slight budget advantage and a significant income advantage over Jerusalem, but if they continue to present themselves as a NBDL team it will hurt them eventually.

[maccabeo]

Maccabis main goal is TOP 8 not TOP 16. You can't say that our goal is TOP 16, we achieved TOP 8 for almost every year in the new millennium... You can't do it by mistake.

EL results was the decisive factor till this year because Israeli league was taken for granted. Now you see a real threat from Jerusalem. If Jerusalem will win 3 championships in a row it won't hurt Maccabi?!? off course it will. Maccabi still have a slight budget advantage and a significant income advantage over Jerusalem, but if they continue to present themselves as a NBDL team it will hurt them eventually.

mta built top 16 team. the fact that u got playoffs lately, doenst mean is a must.
money invested should let u see that top 16 is ok for owners. is the goal allow them to earn something i guess. a full nokia in el home game is another damnation for us. this way fans doesnt force owners to invest more
so ,if u have licence a automatically, if u have nokia fulla nyway, why sould i confirm langford or rice or hickman. and why should i add erceg or doellman?
if we wouldnt have licence a , we already added farmar one month ago
this dimention allow owners betting on market, counting on tradition, counting on some magic season. without licence a , with nokia empty,they have to spend
for us, the more jerusalem will get results , titles and add great players, the more will be better for us

[TheMirror]

A top 16 team that doesn't qualify further, and loses too many championships in Israel - eventually you will see a lot of empty seats in the arena. Even sooner, sponsors will leave or agree to pay only smaller amounts, TV ratings will drop and then the TV channels will pay you far less. Management's pocket will suffer sooner than they think, simply because the team will not be that interesting to the general public anymore.
If you think you can maintain the current level of income with your standards, I think you are living in a dream world.