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Thread: European prospects born 99'

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urk395 View Post
    Luka Doncic has recently had a conversation with Sasa Djordjevic and he will probably play for Serbia. He and his father are a huge fun of Crvena Zvezda, and it is in favor of Serbia. According to his father he will play for Serbia or Slovenia, not for Spain 100 percent.
    Just as likely as Blic becoming a reliable media any time soon
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

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    he will play for slovenija. đorđević said so today and admited he tried to recruit him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Chacho View Post
    Do you think we are happy playing with naturalized players? It is call Método FEB in Spain, thanks to Mr Pepe Luis Sáez, the corrupt president of our federation.
    Man I understand you completely. We're constantly naturalising Bosnian centers as well and as much I do cheer for them and wish them all the best, it's not really something that would make me proud.

    It's one thing if f.e. Georgia naturalises a PG or so as they obviously don't have any, Finland a center etc., but with these NT's that player can mean a lot and can make a big difference when popularisation of basketball is concerned. Slovenia, Spain, Croatia, Turkey, Germany and some others are just outdoing/abusing all that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joško Poljak Fan View Post
    Man I understand you completely. We're constantly naturalising Bosnian centers as well and as much I do cheer for them and wish them all the best, it's not really something that would make me proud.

    It's one thing if f.e. Georgia naturalises a PG or so as they obviously don't have any, Finland a center etc., but with these NT's that player can mean a lot and can make a big difference when popularisation of basketball is concerned. Slovenia, Spain, Croatia, Turkey, Germany and some others are just outdoing/abusing all that.
    I don,t think that Turkey is just abusing all that. IMHO it,s normal being for them, since 90's..... Mirsad Turkan, Ermal Kuqo, Emir Preldzic, Ersan Elyasov, Kenan Sepahi, Cedi Osman( he was born in Makedonia. Yes, his father is turkish, but still....) and two newcomers Farmar and Andrew Goudelock..... I,m really satisfied that only ONE naturalized player can play for NT's. Because if Turkey is given the REAL CHANCE to naturalize 12 players, without any doubt that if they would have this opportunity with big pleasure would use that "amazing" chance.....
    Last edited by vaslover; 05-26-2015 at 08:04 PM.

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    Senior Member Mr Chacho's Avatar
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    Doncic has won the ACB league at age of 16. It is a record?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pohani komarac View Post
    When I saw Doncic 2 years ago for first time it was clear he is special. He already knew how to play just like Rubio few years ago.

    From Croatia there are 2 clear prospects for now. 212cm tall Kresimir Nikic and 205 SF/PF Darko Bajo. Nikic is not just premature tall guy like Musli was, he has that kind game that you emediatly link with Gasol and Tomic. He can play on peremiter and inside and see evrything on court. He is expected to reach 219cm. Bigest question is his body developmet. He looks scary skinny. Darko Bajo on other hand is like beast at moment. He has lot of quistion marks, but he has clear NBA type of body athleticisam and lenght, atlest that is how he looks at moment.



    If Nikic can reach 220 cm, which will be awesome. He, Rikic Robert(219 cm) and Frano Marasovic( 216 cm) would combine "Three Towers" as Center. Bender(212 cm), Zubac (214 cm) and Zizic (210 cm) can play as PF.
    Last edited by tallwestman; 08-06-2015 at 01:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tallwestman View Post
    If Nikic can reach 220 cm, which will be awesome. He, Rikic Robert(219 cm) and Frano Marasovic( 216 cm) would combine "Three Towers" as Center. Bender(212 cm), Zubac (214 cm) and Zizic (210 cm) can play as PF.
    Question is will they be athletic enough to play in modern basketball? I know PF trio can (Bender, Zubac and Zizic) but not sure about Centers.
    Pohani maybe you can answer that.
    Go Efes Pilsen - Go Turkey

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    EC U16 starts today. We will see all the prospects

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    Quote Originally Posted by felix_r View Post
    EC U16 starts today. We will see all the prospects
    Not all. The best one isn't playing.
    1 hour for the MUsa show to start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Efesdxb View Post
    Question is will they be athletic enough to play in modern basketball? I know PF trio can (Bender, Zubac and Zizic) but not sure about Centers.
    Pohani maybe you can answer that.
    Rikic is 90., Marasovic 92.

    Zizic, Zubac and Nikic can play modern basketball
    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

  12. #32
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    Onuralp Bitim, one of the four brightest talents of this generation including with Musa, Doncic and Duran. I have been following him for 4 years when I heard his name first at junior tournament in 2011. My friends mentioned him to me rousingly. He is really enjoying basketball. I have heard he is the last player who leaves training the latest. A good sign for 16 yo player. Since we think his improvement this year, that devotion can lead him to go furthest to achieve the biggest. In last year's U16 tournament he also had performed well but couldn't take the helms completely because of the leaderships of Yurtseven and Yarol. He has improved all aspects of his game in comparison to last year's version. He only averaged 7 pts in that tournament and this year he just tripled himself. His game gives joy to me. I bet everybody enjoys watching him. He is like that he has some magic in his hands. Such a productive guy. The latest guy who impressed me in this level was Korkmaz with shooting performance. Bitim is different type of player and more all around player than Korkmaz. Therefore I can't compare these two guys. Korkmaz' has his own style and I don't find right all those Rudy Fernandez likening. Bitim is more like Rudy style.

    Bitim is a insanely fast player. He reaches his maximum pace in the shortest time. Thus he can attack ball in defense easily and also this acceleration relaxes him in penetrations. He is completely an athletic guy. Jumps great. His legs are so responsive. He can guard any other fast players easily if he decides. He is so flexible. Some athletic guys struggle with being not flexible much therefore they are just like hoppers but being enough elastic is added value for athletic players. He can do many flashy things in air Like MJ. Really at some points, I couldn't have believed what he has done in this tournament. He totally surprised me with this improvement. His ball handling skills are better than any of Turkish PG in senior level. He completely own the ball and rarely choke up. When you have those two skills (athleticism and ball handling), you can move your body how you like. He manages every part of his body with great success rate. I bet he can even wiggle his ears I also should say he has acceptable body for his age but still needs to add some muscles to especially his legs to be a spectacular player. (He already is but can improve)

    Beside his athleticism, the guy has technique. I don't remember much guys who can make teardrop shots constantly. He has great footworks for this yo player. His threes are okay but I like his mid-range shots. That's why he has great 2PT percentage in last tournament. He drives or stops his dribbling to on-ball shots. Better than Korkmaz in that point. When he owns the ball, you can see the determination in his eyes. He was born because of score and score. He is hungry and never feel full for scoring. He is good at behind the arc but still not a reliable shooter like the rest 99' born guys. He knows basketball, and understands it. Maybe mostly because of the fact that his father was a ex basketballer His off the ball cuts, clever penetrations devoted to taking fouls, taking spots on himself to make free his friends etc.. many many signs that show his game is so mature for this level. His defensive effort was also good. Since he can be counted as strong guy for this level, few opponents found a deficiency in his defensive game. He has quick hands and feet, good body, broad arms and wide arm span which make him good defensive tool automatically. Also I couldn't focus on his defense to be honest. Defensive effort should be seen to be sure.

    I don't see any big missing part in his game in tangible points. There are some intangible things that can worry people who don't know him. First, sometimes he tries too much. This is mostly because of the reason that he is the leader of team but when the things were going bad, that is not accepted as a good sign because he couldn't lift the pressure well in some games. Also his passing skill seemed a little bit problematic. He even needs to rely on passing skill much. In some parts, we had lost the momentum because of his show offs. He needs to control himself even though we all know he can do the things in maximum. These things are not so much important for me He is young and have lots of things to learn.

    One fact about him. He can play in senior level with current shape. He needs to experience senior level atmosphere therefore Efes should send him to Pertevniyal and he should quality role there in this age. He shouldn't waste his time by playing in youth teams. He can even leap himself forward this year. If this happens, he will be a great acquisition for Turkish basketball.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by slice me nice View Post
    Onuralp Bitim, one of the four brightest talents of this generation including with Musa, Doncic and Duran. I have been following him for 4 years when I heard his name first at junior tournament in 2011. My friends mentioned him to me rousingly. He is really enjoying basketball. I have heard he is the last player who leaves training the latest. A good sign for 16 yo player. Since we think his improvement this year, that devotion can lead him to go furthest to achieve the biggest. In last year's U16 tournament he also had performed well but couldn't take the helms completely because of the leaderships of Yurtseven and Yarol. He has improved all aspects of his game in comparison to last year's version. He only averaged 7 pts in that tournament and this year he just tripled himself. His game gives joy to me. I bet everybody enjoys watching him. He is like that he has some magic in his hands. Such a productive guy. The latest guy who impressed me in this level was Korkmaz with shooting performance. Bitim is different type of player and more all around player than Korkmaz. Therefore I can't compare these two guys. Korkmaz' has his own style and I don't find right all those Rudy Fernandez likening. Bitim is more like Rudy style.

    Bitim is a insanely fast player. He reaches his maximum pace in the shortest time. Thus he can attack ball in defense easily and also this acceleration relaxes him in penetrations. He is completely an athletic guy. Jumps great. His legs are so responsive. He can guard any other fast players easily if he decides. He is so flexible. Some athletic guys struggle with being not flexible much therefore they are just like hoppers but being enough elastic is added value for athletic players. He can do many flashy things in air Like MJ. Really at some points, I couldn't have believed what he has done in this tournament. He totally surprised me with this improvement. His ball handling skills are better than any of Turkish PG in senior level. He completely own the ball and rarely choke up. When you have those two skills (athleticism and ball handling), you can move your body how you like. He manages every part of his body with great success rate. I bet he can even wiggle his ears I also should say he has acceptable body for his age but still needs to add some muscles to especially his legs to be a spectacular player. (He already is but can improve)

    Beside his athleticism, the guy has technique. I don't remember much guys who can make teardrop shots constantly. He has great footworks for this yo player. His threes are okay but I like his mid-range shots. That's why he has great 2PT percentage in last tournament. He drives or stops his dribbling to on-ball shots. Better than Korkmaz in that point. When he owns the ball, you can see the determination in his eyes. He was born because of score and score. He is hungry and never feel full for scoring. He is good at behind the arc but still not a reliable shooter like the rest 99' born guys. He knows basketball, and understands it. Maybe mostly because of the fact that his father was a ex basketballer His off the ball cuts, clever penetrations devoted to taking fouls, taking spots on himself to make free his friends etc.. many many signs that show his game is so mature for this level. His defensive effort was also good. Since he can be counted as strong guy for this level, few opponents found a deficiency in his defensive game. He has quick hands and feet, good body, broad arms and wide arm span which make him good defensive tool automatically. Also I couldn't focus on his defense to be honest. Defensive effort should be seen to be sure.

    I don't see any big missing part in his game in tangible points. There are some intangible things that can worry people who don't know him. First, sometimes he tries too much. This is mostly because of the reason that he is the leader of team but when the things were going bad, that is not accepted as a good sign because he couldn't lift the pressure well in some games. Also his passing skill seemed a little bit problematic. He even needs to rely on passing skill much. In some parts, we had lost the momentum because of his show offs. He needs to control himself even though we all know he can do the things in maximum. These things are not so much important for me He is young and have lots of things to learn.

    One fact about him. He can play in senior level with current shape. He needs to experience senior level atmosphere therefore Efes should send him to Pertevniyal and he should quality role there in this age. He shouldn't waste his time by playing in youth teams. He can even leap himself forward this year. If this happens, he will be a great acquisition for Turkish basketball.
    Great analysis as always
    Do you also think his dribbling style is weird?
    He bends too much imo

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by saritasbora View Post
    Great analysis as always
    Do you also think his dribbling style is weird?
    He bends too much imo
    Indeed, he dribbles the ball in slouching way. But I am not sure if this loads the dice against his game. This can be an advantage for him if he knows to transform this into a positive manner(For me he does). Just concentrate on his penetrations, his opponents are using their hands too much which causes fouls since he keeps the distance between the floor and hands too close. This also gives him extra movement opportunities. I mean if you increase the dribble numbers in limited place, you gain insomuch movement opportunities. So this dribbling specialty gives him a little bit advantage I think. But of course this also can cause some problems and in order to detect those problems, we should have watched him more.

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    Bitim isn't particularly tall, I don't belive he is more than 190 cm without shoes. But I'm really impressed with some of his dunks, It looks so easy when he does it. He can make some spectacular dunks even in traffic. I bet he have some really long arms. With a great athleticism of course.

    He deserved a place in the All tournament team of the FIBA U16, but I don't get it why Duran and not Martinez. Turkey finished third and still had two players in the All tournament team. It doesn't have sense. But again, wee all know that Turks own FIBA

    It's always:

    - two players from a champion
    - one player from a second team
    - one player from a third team
    - one player from a fourth team

    But when Turkey is third, then it's:

    - two players from a champion
    - one player from a second team
    - two players from a third team
    Last edited by BiHBasket; 08-24-2015 at 04:19 PM.

  16. #36
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    He made an excellent improvement in just 1 year and had a phenomenal tournament. He improved his shot selection a lot and that showed in his scoring rise. He still very inconsistent perimeter shooter but that can be improved easily with more training. He has fantastic scoring instinct and he is already elite finisher. Handles extremely well but only to score. Defensively he relies on athleticism so far, so we will have to wait a few years for kids to catch up to see him in action that way.

    In order to be a complete player, or be able to play combo guard he needs to work on his main weaknesses. His passing is way below average and this is the reason why he commits too many turnovers (AS to TO ratio is very bad). Such a supreme handler and athlete needs to utilize that and penetration and be a more efficient passer, and be able to run the pick and roll efficiently. No use being a perfect player athletically for pick and roll, if you can't pass out of it. The release of the shot could be a bit quicker too, but it is not an issue to hold him back. I think he is the best pure scorer of the generation he is playing in, but not as polished all around as some others. Once again we will have to see in let's say 2 years when some kids catch up athletically a bit to see how his game has evolved. At the moment he has no business playing PG at all, just SG.

  17. #37
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    Ahmet Can Duran is one of the exciting prospect of this generation and nail biting one with his possible future. Actually, he was playing PF in previous Turkish regional youth tournament but he put weight on and evolved a center. His effectiveness was not so impressive in Turkish tournament. In the middle of the season, he did well in Konya International Tournament and had played as center most of the times. He was not that fat in that tournament and impressed me a lot. He has many special talents worth to mention. During the latest u-16 tournament, he declared his independence under the rim and dominated the painted area. The way of using his body, finger sensitivity, rebound feeling, mid-range shots and his mature taste for the game excited the attention of NBA scouts. Yurtseven was the biggest candidate for the dominant center that we are seeking from these generations but it appears that, Duran might be the guy who can physically dominate the game. When we look at other Turkish centers; Güven, Koşut, Yurtseven, Olmaz and few other names, it is safe to say that Duran has different taste for the game and watching him is not so boring. Even though it is hard to bet on a 16 years old guy, this guy has special things leap himself forward in future too.

    The most important part of his game is his physical game. He is extremely strong for this level and if he can transform those fats into muscles, we can watch different Duran throughout the incoming years. He knows how to use his body. He has great footworks for 16 years old guy. Some of the moves are the copy of Kanter and since they were both graduated from the same college, we may associate these moves with the cult of their school Using your strong body is important however unless you use your foots and brain at the same time, you just waste the efficiency of your body. Most of the times, he managed to finish his post up games regardless his opponents. During the journey, nobody was able to stand behind him. He can play post up from the left and right sides of floor. Strangely, he is way more effective when he fronts the basket from his right side. Even though he is not left handed, he manages to drag his opponent to the basket by dribble with his left hand. He has great hand sensitivity that he finishes the buckets easily around the paint. Since he takes a lot of rooms around the basket, he opens pass channels and doesn't avoid from taking positions easily. When he gets the ball on post, they either commit foul or Duran finishes the offense with a good post up moves. If he can get muscles to this dominant body, I am quite sure there won't be anyone who can stop him physically.

    Yeah it is important being a strong guy but you have to have other qualifications to be considered as a top prospect. His rebound feeling is almost in same level with Aldemir. He rules the place under the rim and rarely choke up guessing where the ball drop. That rebound skill makes him one step ahead of his opponents. He is getting right position and while doing this he keeps an eye on the ball. Some players just watch the ball and don't take positions, some players take position but can't follow the ball but if you are physically strong and do both, you appear as a rebound monster. He averaged 12,1 RPG which gave him the leadership of rebound stats.

    Actually, he is above average mid range shooter but didn't use much this weapon in the tournament. He has enough finger sensitivity to shoot the ball and pass the ball. 2,3 APG is such a good percentage for a center. He is so conscious what he is doing on the floor. That's why everybody liked the maturity in his game. He knows his bounds and whenever he faces double team, he saves the ball with an quality pass to a good place. He is the good passer of backdoor plays. I hope, he will get used to shoot his mid range shots more often because that's the thing that will add value to his game.

    There are few weaknesses in his game. His feet is so slow. So slow that he can't defend the quicker opponent after PnR plays. He needs to get in better shape and should his motion defense. Since nobody even didn't try post up offenses on him, his deficiency is motion defense leaped to the eye. He had been playing so one dimensional game and was far away from an offensive threat in PnR games. He had used his shots after the pick and pops but we couldn't have played enough amount of this game to judge his effectiveness. In some parts of games, he had been misused. He needs to try to develop his athleticism by working on basic things. I don't expect him to be a athletic freak but at least he should be able to be more quick and more versatile on athleticism based.

    It is not a weakness but a concern rather. While doing those comments, we assume that he will grow tall at least 7 or 10 cm. If this won't happen then he will remain as undersized against senior level team player. He hasn't grew up more in last two years and that's what this concern is coming from. If he can reach up to 2.08, then there is no problem and he will be a monster. Otherwise, he will have to change his career plans, lose weight and try to evolve a PF which doesn't sound so easy after such a long time. To sum up, way of his playing is what we need in NT in future. Different player and definitely will encolour the Turkish big rotation.

  18. #38
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Watched him at U16s and he was very dominant at this level but I have a lot of concerns in terms of his long term potential.

    - He is a C only, and nothing else so his next level effectiveness will be determined whether he will be able to grow. With his body type I don't think he will be a 2.10 C or such. He might get a few more centimeters. He has a very mature body type already, that is usually a sign that he will not grow much.
    - He has obvious weight issues, since I saw some of his older clips, where he looked different. Usually not a good sign, also very bad for knees/back to be dragging a lot of weight in growing years. Usually those weight issues carry over into seniors since then it will be much more difficult to keep the weight off, with a more mature metabolism.
    - Athletically he is not gifted, and with a limited vertical and body type he will have trouble to be an elite rebounder at the next level. I always disregards rebounding numbers in the U16, U18 groups since there strength still plays a major factor at the boards and heavy centers usually dominate boards, rather than what next level is expected to bring. He also might have a lot of problems being a good PnR attacker (defender is an obvious issue with his weight, speed and lack of athleticism) since he doesn't seem to be a guy who will attack the rim with explosiveness.

    In general that will be his limits as they stand now. Europe is place where you can still be an efficient center even with 205cm if many other fundamentals are in place, so those things are in no way a death sentence to his career.

    On the other hand there are many things I liked about him:

    - Very high IQ for basketball. He has feel for the court, and very above average vision for a C. He is most of the time where he needs to be and shows a lot of consistency. Basically whenever you will see him out of position it will be mostly due to his athleticism letting him down (It's his fault in part, since he can't get himself in shape at 16).
    - Excellent hands. I don't know the stats on his hand size but you can see his hands are very soft for a big guy and that helps him get a good position to receive the balls in the paint. Also helps with the shooting/passing touch. Problem with shooting comes from the fact that his mobility is limiting him to get a lot of open looks and doesn't get enough chances to stroke it, but I am sure he can be a high level midjumper shooter with those hands.
    - A diverse of post moves for a 16 year old, and he uses them well. He has different combos that he uses and with an above average dribble for a big he is doing great in that area.

    I general he is a prospect which will show you in U19 or U20 if he can be a player. Bodies of most of the kids will start catching up and he will not be able to push them around as he does in this level. Then you will see whether he will be in shape to be a 20+ minute player, whether he will grow to be a more of rim protector/rebounder and PnR roller etc.

    I like him for his IQ and basketball smarts which is something that you cannot find easily at a lot of kids. That can make up for a lot of deficiencies but to a certain point. U16 is an age where you can see a lot of the pure talent of individual kids (U19 and U20 coaches fuck it up toooo much and start already using heavy strat and tactic approach in order to win medals and that is just stupid for development of kids), but also a lot of kids that flash at that U16 are so called "accelerants" which are dominant at this level due to their earlier development and athletic ability.

  19. #39
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    @CoachZ, good post, we are on the same line. He has few options in front of him to decide what type of player he will be. That's a good thing for a player, I hope he won't betray his skills.

  20. #40
    Senior Member BiHBasket's Avatar
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    Yesterday Dzanan Musa debuted for Cedevita in Adriatic league. In a away win against Sutjetska he played 7 minutes(2 points, 1 rebound).

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