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Thread: FIBA vs ULEB

  1. #41
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    one more article by eurohoops/

    FIBA prepares its counter attack in order to get back the control of the top basketball league in the world after the NBA and at this point two things have happened. The first meeting between national federation in Geneva and some informal meetings between FIBA officials and representatives of big European clubs.

    FIBA promises that if the clubs decide to leave the current Euroleague business structure, the financial data will be much more lucratives and they are presenting as examples the revenues from the last two national teams competitions, Eurobasket 2013 and FIBA World Cup 2014. The verbal proposals are so far the following:

    In total the clubs participating in the “new” Euroleague will share the sum of 150 m. euros, a number which is five times bigger than the revenues from the current Euroleague.
    The Euroleague games will be held again on Wednesday and Thursday and not on Friday. Despite the fact that Friday’s game have proved to be a lucrative innovation, many domestic leagues don’t want to arrange their schedule according to Friday’s games, like it happens in Spain with Liga Endesa.
    FIBA also wants to include more countries in the “new” Euroleague, probably by “locking” the number of clubs each country can have in the league and not taking into account the achievements of each club, no matter its country of origin, like it happened so far with Euroleague. However, also a change in the way berths are given in the current Euroleague is expected.
    It’s obvious that the “war” is far from over and only time will tell who will prevail in the end. The next two seasons are going to be more than interesting for the future of European basketball and the bottom line will be financial. However gives more money, specially when the salary cup of the NBA will go over the roof, will prevail.

    The clubs are waiting to see the money and their choice will be simple. That been said, the number of 150 m. euros which FIBA says that can provide in the first season of its league, seem to be out of any current market logic. Only if a company, or even a country for its own reasons, which can be even political, wants to invest this number, without expecting any financial gains, one may assume that the 150 millions can be found.
    150 millions is a lot. For example eurobasket 2013 only earned 700.000€ for Fiba europe from Italy as far as TV rights go, sure there must've been other much more lucrative TV deals from some other countries, but far from those insane numbers such as 150M. I'm pretty much sure Fiba Europe doesn't have that money itself. 50 millions would be pretty stretched out (yet believable), let alone 150 millions. I don't buy that NBA financial help to Fiba euroleague rumour that appeared a while back and Fiba world helping can't really ammount to such numbers imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

  2. #42
    Senior Member Hot Spot's Avatar
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    The NBA is not known for throwing their money away. If they would believe, that you could earn money with a club competition in Europe, they would run a European division by themselves and not let FIBA nor Euroleague do it.

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    Two-three comments here and sorry for my bad english.First of all the king of the sports is Football.....Basketball is more than a sport,it is religion.The God s sign which leave back on the earth and our effort is to understand and reach Him.
    About our topic now....I remember in the mid 80s how innovative was Fiba about the European Champions Cup and about structure of it.Every time fiba was one step in front of uefa.Group stage basketball Champions cup...group stage uefa champions cup after 2-3 years.More than one team partecipation of a country in Basketball champions cup ....more than one team partecipation of a country in Uefa champions cup after 2-3 years.Everytime one step in front was Fiba... and football just copy-paste.Every succesful change football just followed.So the champions league model it is nothing more than this that create Fiba first.(qualifing rounds and Group stages with partecipation of the champions team and runners up of all the countries of Europe.From that point any new change was unsuccesful and simply Uefa not followed.So European basketball has to go back in its creation that was so succeful.It is obvious that dictatorship of Bertomeu has to finish as soon as possible.
    Let s see another one fact.Basketball had an ubelievable increasing popularity because of Nba Magic Johnson -Larry Bird and later Jordan....Fiba take this opporunity and with National teams competitions (world cup and eurobasket) and with Club international competitions(Fiba champions cup -Fiba European Cup and Korac) OPEN FOR ALL... started to put new countries in the Basketball world map.Apart from traditional powers Italy Spain Yugoslavia and ex Soviet .....many new countries appeared and basketball was about to grow....Let take one by one all the examples....My country Greece with the victory of Eurobasket 1987 and the games every Thursday of Aris in Fiba Champions cup everyone here was talking for basketball.I can not forget the empty roads of the city Thursday nights for many years when all people stuck in televisions to watch Aris in the Champions cup(my team is Panathinaikos and i am really Proud but i if i don t recognize what Aris and the OPEN FOR ALL Fiba Champions Cup give to basketball popularity i would be fool.
    Lets continue ....Germany with the victory of Eurobasket 1993.suddenly Germans learn for a sport named basketball..... Turkey with the partecipation of Efes Pilsen in the final of European Cup and later in Final 4....France with Limoges with the victory of European Champion cup(it was the first ever Live Broadcast Basketball game in France!!! It seemed that an exploition was about to come for more and more countries but suddenly mr Bertomeu said Stop here.It is unbelievable that from that point no new country have entered in the basketball map and The most bad is that some countries like Belgium Portugal Holland Chech Sweden Bulgaria every time played a second role.. in Bertomeu mind these countries not even exist...
    One another good example is Finland.With the partecipation and some amazing victories in Eurobasket and Fiba word cup all people start a intensive interest for basketball but if they have to wait 3-4 years or maybe more for a new good appearance of their national team better to do something another...is it correct Mr Bertomeu? because you are not allowed them to partecipate not only in the Euroleague but neither to Eurocup!!!!
    This man is more than a joke
    Basketball is more than a gameJesusBasketball.jpg

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    ^
    Great post.

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    Platonic, I couldn't agree more. Welcome to the site and don't let your perception of your english keep you away from posting here

    I wholefully agree with Finland as an example. Whoever believes they aren't potentialy able to compete in euroleague now and than within a few years is mistaken and if they're prevented to do so, their national team succes might go uncapitalised, european basketball might lose some competitive teams that have never been given a chance and in the long term, we might be loosing on 5 more Mottola's and Koponen's, making euro bball poorer and less diversified. Anything but some sort of qualification stage for these countries is a genocide to the sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joško Poljak Fan View Post
    Platonic, I couldn't agree more. Welcome to the site and don't let your perception of your english keep you away from posting here

    I wholefully agree with Finland as an example. Whoever believes they aren't potentialy able to compete in euroleague now and than within a few years is mistaken and if they're prevented to do so, their national team succes might go uncapitalised, european basketball might lose some competitive teams that have never been given a chance and in the long term, we might be loosing on 5 more Mottola's and Koponen's, making euro bball poorer and less diversified. Anything but some sort of qualification stage for these countries is a genocide to the sport.
    If the Netherlands are going to put up some good performance in the next Eurobasket, it will be a huge boost for the sport in the Netherlands. I'm sure the people will support the progress and the sport will grow. Just like in Finlad.
    In fact, the Netherlands has a very respectable basketball history in the 70s and 80s. They made some managerial blunders after that though. They wanted to mimic the NBA and the Dutch teams signed many low quality Americans, which lowered the level of Dutch teams and which made an end to any respectable performance of the Dutch NT.

    Thanks to FIBA increasing the number of teams competing in Eurobasket, teams like Finland and The Netherlands have a chance to play against Europe's best. So one has to compliment FIBA for their good work.

    But I am not sure how Bertomeu is responsible for the lack of basketball development through some area's of Europe. His objective is to create a league with the highest level of basketball in the continent and promote this product throughout the globe. I don't think he is responsible that teams in many countries can not reach the required level to play in the EL. Many Belgian and Dutch teams play in the Europe Cup and they loose badly against very average teams of stronger leagues. Is Bertomeu responsible for that? Should these teams play in the EL? Are we supposed to watch basketball in which teams loose by 50+.
    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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    It's not as much of what Bertomeu has done than what he hasn't done according with his seriously flawed understanding of marketing as well as sports.

    The part where his flawed belief is hurting those small countries is basicaly the same as with some other less wealthy, coming from smaller towns clubs, Bertomeu doesn't believe those can contribute to euroleague or to european basketball in a way he considers worth giving them a shot. And he kept prooving those beliefs everywhere he could.
    When you've got a clear message that some Joventud Badalona (!!) isn't big enough club, it's very obvious Bertomeu isn't exactly interested in giving Honka Espoo even a mild chance at reaching the euroleague as he prefers that some Benetton or Montepaschi or some other team is sleeping calmly knowing that only a bankrupcy might take euroleague away from them (been to all 4 towns, not exactly sure what made Treviso and Siena that more desireable than Cantu or Varese - I can't stay on the topic, I know ). That was supposed to increase the level of euroleague bball, gave those teams financial stability and made them a stronger brands euroleague audience can relate to. Yet both of them bankrupted, euroleague suffocated the competition in LegaUno by protecting them and I haven't seen one single poster mention those two clubs in that "which team do you miss in euroleague" thread. (making it a triple WTF is Bertomeu trippin'?)

    Those qualification rounds we've seen, were just sad, arguably decreasing the costs for the teams bs and schedule issues robbed all of participants for a home-away packed spectacle, not to mention only Latvia and Belgium regulary got the chance to compete there and that planning on those qualifications is impossible when the competition system regulary changes every year or two. It would only take 2 weeks for 2 rounds, home-away games that would've included 24 teams, with 8 of them getting to euroleague and give those teams at least those few days of excitement some are desperately missing in their national championships.
    Bertomeu "couldn't" afford that due to licences and due to applying a NBA market logic to europe as well as being afraid some of his belowed teams would miss the euroleague, which in turn might make euroleague 100k € poorer on the short run. I understand his concerns, but those are shortsighted nevertheless.
    If a more just system was in place, not only some of the old teams would actualy have motivation to invest, their fans to attend games in their national league as those would actualy matter, but Portugese teams for example wouldn't increase the gap towards the top clubs as much as they did compared to the 90ies. Some of those "3rd bball-world countries" might actualy get themselves more profesionaly organised teams trying to eventualy pass through both rounds and qualify to euroleague. Why? cause that's what sportmen do, compete. They try to win one year after another and don't give up in the process, the only thing they want in return are equal playing grounds.

    Finns, Hungarians, Czechs, Portugese or Swedes have the same right to top level club basketball as I do, yet my team was priviledged to play in euroleague in seasons it didn't deserve that just for the sake of some old times of noticably higher level. Bertomeu's fault was neglecting that and trying to monopolise sport to places of his interest instead of letting it grow naturaly with devotion, while not only he has no right to do that, it's also unsportive to the very fundamentals of what sport is supposed to be... and as Bertomeu fails to realise, unlucrative as a consequence as well.

    That's why I sincerely hope Fiba would send a message, that investing in basketball, no matter the region or where the club is coming from, pays off and quality instead of origin would be rewarded. If they don't do that => same sh?t different asshole.
    Last edited by Joško Poljak Fan; 04-28-2015 at 06:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

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    At first, FIBA is on honky-tonky to inform teams about their plans. Madrid and Barcelona were the prime goals: mundodeportivo.com/baloncesto/otros/20150430/102976889007/barca-y-madrid-ya-conocen-las-intenciones-de-la-fiba.html

    Yesterday the two slownian powerhouses of Krka Novo Mesto and Olimpija Ljubljana met and had a clear statement against the FIBA- Balkan-League. The new league would be a big stepback, since the teams wouldn't have the same voice as with ABA-league and the marketing, financial and organizational aspects are not in favor of the clubs.
    rtvslo.si/sport/kosarka/krka-in-union-olimpija-za-obstojeco-ligo-aba/364033
    I like the statement's directness.

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    FIBA is joke they will invest in new league 800e (read: eight houndred euros) epic i dont take them for serious anymore
    Republic of CRVENA ZVEZDA

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joško Poljak Fan View Post
    It's not as much of what Bertomeu has done than what he hasn't done according with his seriously flawed understanding of marketing as well as sports.

    The part where his flawed belief is hurting those small countries is basicaly the same as with some other less wealthy, coming from smaller towns clubs, Bertomeu doesn't believe those can contribute to euroleague or to european basketball in a way he considers worth giving them a shot. And he kept prooving those beliefs everywhere he could.
    When you've got a clear message that some Joventud Badalona (!!) isn't big enough club, it's very obvious Bertomeu isn't exactly interested in giving Honka Espoo even a mild chance at reaching the euroleague as he prefers that some Benetton or Montepaschi or some other team is sleeping calmly knowing that only a bankrupcy might take euroleague away from them (been to all 4 towns, not exactly sure what made Treviso and Siena that more desireable than Cantu or Varese - I can't stay on the topic, I know ). That was supposed to increase the level of euroleague bball, gave those teams financial stability and made them a stronger brands euroleague audience can relate to. Yet both of them bankrupted, euroleague suffocated the competition in LegaUno by protecting them and I haven't seen one single poster mention those two clubs in that "which team do you miss in euroleague" thread. (making it a triple WTF is Bertomeu trippin'?)

    Those qualification rounds we've seen, were just sad, arguably decreasing the costs for the teams bs and schedule issues robbed all of participants for a home-away packed spectacle, not to mention only Latvia and Belgium regulary got the chance to compete there and that planning on those qualifications is impossible when the competition system regulary changes every year or two. It would only take 2 weeks for 2 rounds, home-away games that would've included 24 teams, with 8 of them getting to euroleague and give those teams at least those few days of excitement some are desperately missing in their national championships.
    Bertomeu "couldn't" afford that due to licences and due to applying a NBA market logic to europe as well as being afraid some of his belowed teams would miss the euroleague, which in turn might make euroleague 100k € poorer on the short run. I understand his concerns, but those are shortsighted nevertheless.
    If a more just system was in place, not only some of the old teams would actualy have motivation to invest, their fans to attend games in their national league as those would actualy matter, but Portugese teams for example wouldn't increase the gap towards the top clubs as much as they did compared to the 90ies. Some of those "3rd bball-world countries" might actualy get themselves more profesionaly organised teams trying to eventualy pass through both rounds and qualify to euroleague. Why? cause that's what sportmen do, compete. They try to win one year after another and don't give up in the process, the only thing they want in return are equal playing grounds.

    Finns, Hungarians, Czechs, Portugese or Swedes have the same right to top level club basketball as I do, yet my team was priviledged to play in euroleague in seasons it didn't deserve that just for the sake of some old times of noticably higher level. Bertomeu's fault was neglecting that and trying to monopolise sport to places of his interest instead of letting it grow naturaly with devotion, while not only he has no right to do that, it's also unsportive to the very fundamentals of what sport is supposed to be... and as Bertomeu fails to realise, unlucrative as a consequence as well.

    That's why I sincerely hope Fiba would send a message, that investing in basketball, no matter the region or where the club is coming from, pays off and quality instead of origin would be rewarded. If they don't do that => same sh?t different asshole.
    One can expand the number of teams in continental or global national team championships. This will help some countries develop the sport. However, in club basketball, expanding the number of teams won´t help. Because the same basketball countries will get more teams in the league, since their second and third tier teams are simply much better than teams from weak basketball countries. We can see that in the Europe Cup. In other words, it will weaken the quality of the game we see when watching EL.

    So apart from some minor mistakes, I can´t say the EL is to blame for anything. The EL is open minded on developing the game. Once they see that some country or a team invests in basketball, it offers an extra place. See Germany, Turkey. Once they see that the level declines, it takes one birth away from them. Think of Olimpija Ljubljana, third Greek team, third and fourth Italian teams.

    Furthermore, the EL gave some chances to some countries which were below level. Think of Poland which didn´t work out at all. And German teams were rather poor until recently. But that paid off.
    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post

    But I am not sure how Bertomeu is responsible for the lack of basketball development through some area's of Europe. His objective is to create a league with the highest level of basketball in the continent and promote this product throughout the globe. I don't think he is responsible that teams in many countries can not reach the required level to play in the EL. Many Belgian and Dutch teams play in the Europe Cup and they loose badly against very average teams of stronger leagues. Is Bertomeu responsible for that? Should these teams play in the EL? Are we supposed to watch basketball in which teams loose by 50+.
    You would still watch Barcelona, Madrid, CSKA etc...year and year out......but do you remember Benfica for sample? With Benfica playing in EL there is chance for Portugal to develope basketball, with closed dors that chances drop dramaticly. It's very simple. And that licsense systm screwd manny teams like Split, Zadar, Aris, Paok etc.

    It's ectually very simple logic
    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

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    Senior Member iskoch's Avatar
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    Barcelona
    Real Madrid
    Unicaja
    Laboral

    CSKA
    Khimki
    Kuban

    Fenerbahçe
    Efes
    Darüşşafaka

    Panathinaikos
    Olympiacos

    Bayern
    ALBA

    PSG

    Milano

    Maccabi

    Crvena Zveda


    A closed league with these 18 teams will be the best option for the Euroleague imo...

    Euroleague should be the top league where the best teams of Europe play...
    This is the only way to develop European basketball and compete with the NBA.

    Yes, I agree that basketball in countries like Belgium, Portugal, Finland, Holland should get better.
    But reducing competition level in Euroleague and adding teams that will get -20 average lose per game is not the right way.
    Romantism will just make European basketball against NBA weaker day by day...

    NBA is a huge financial power and if Euroleague can't provide participants €250-300M per season, in the next 5 years we can't see any good player here.
    All of them will be in NBA...
    I strongly believe that with right marketing policies, Euroleague can provide clubs €250-300M per season...
    Republic of FENERBAHÇE

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    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    Barcelona
    Real Madrid
    Unicaja
    Laboral

    CSKA
    Khimki
    Kuban

    Fenerbahçe
    Efes
    Darüşşafaka

    Panathinaikos
    Olympiacos

    Bayern
    ALBA

    PSG

    Milano

    Maccabi

    Crvena Zveda


    A closed league with these 18 teams will be the best option for the Euroleague imo...

    Euroleague should be the top league where the best teams of Europe play...
    This is the only way to develop European basketball and compete with the NBA.

    Yes, I agree that basketball in countries like Belgium, Portugal, Finland, Holland should get better.
    But reducing competition level in Euroleague and adding teams that will get -20 average lose per game is not the right way.
    Romantism will just make European basketball against NBA weaker day by day...

    NBA is a huge financial power and if Euroleague can't provide participants €250-300M per season, in the next 5 years we can't see any good player here.
    All of them will be in NBA...
    I strongly believe that with right marketing policies, Euroleague can provide clubs €250-300M per season...
    Logic says if you close league like NBA evryone else will stop investing in basketball and without evryone elseplaying it there will be no players for your chose one league

    Europe is not one countrie like USA

    You realy have hard time seeing ting from wider picture. In 7-8 years your league would be dead. No fans, no good players, no TV intrest, no milions in clubs. With your plan eventually China league would be more competitive
    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by pohani komarac View Post
    Logic says if you close league like NBA evryone else will stop investing in basketball and without evryone elseplaying it there will be no players for your chose one league

    Europe is not one countrie like USA

    You realy have hard time seeing ting from wider picture. In 7-8 years your league would be dead. No fans, no good players, no TV intrest, no milions in clubs. With your plan eventually China league would be more competitive
    Or there will be relegation and promotion to the league...
    Eurocup finalists will promote to Euroleague while the last 2 teams get relegated.
    Republic of FENERBAHÇE

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    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    Barcelona
    Real Madrid
    Unicaja
    Laboral

    CSKA
    Khimki
    Kuban

    Fenerbahçe
    Efes
    Darüşşafaka

    Panathinaikos
    Olympiacos

    Bayern
    ALBA

    PSG

    Milano

    Maccabi

    Crvena Zveda


    A closed league with these 18 teams will be the best option for the Euroleague imo...

    Euroleague should be the top league where the best teams of Europe play...
    This is the only way to develop European basketball and compete with the NBA.

    Yes, I agree that basketball in countries like Belgium, Portugal, Finland, Holland should get better.
    But reducing competition level in Euroleague and adding teams that will get -20 average lose per game is not the right way.
    Romantism will just make European basketball against NBA weaker day by day...

    NBA is a huge financial power and if Euroleague can't provide participants €250-300M per season, in the next 5 years we can't see any good player here.
    All of them will be in NBA...
    I strongly believe that with right marketing policies, Euroleague can provide clubs €250-300M per season...
    UNIQUE ARROGANCE..... Where is Zalgiris Kaunas in you list?!.... Where a team from one the GREATEST NATIONS in the world in basketball?! Ridiculous actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vaslover View Post
    UNIQUE ARROGANCE..... Where is Zalgiris Kaunas in you list?!.... Where a team from one the GREATEST NATIONS in the world in basketball?! Ridiculous actually.
    you may call it arrogance but i don't want to see in euroleague teams with €2M budget that in the middle of the season releases half of players...
    if european basketbal is determined to keep talents in this continent and fight with nba, economical development and increasing marketing value is the only way.
    first you should increase competition level of the euroleague, people will watch better players and better teams,
    then you can just get financial returns of the quality.

    if fiba wants to develop basketbol everywhere and add new teams to euroleague, euroleague can be only professional version of ncaa in europe...
    Republic of FENERBAHÇE

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    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    you may call it arrogance but i don't want to see in euroleague teams with €2M budget that in the middle of the season releases half of players...
    if european basketbal is determined to keep talents in this continent and fight with nba, economical development and increasing marketing value is the only way.
    first you should increase competition level of the euroleague, people will watch better players and better teams,
    then you can just get financial returns of the quality.

    if fiba wants to develop basketbol everywhere and add new teams to euroleague, euroleague can be only professional version of ncaa in europe...
    You know, we have KHL ,best competition in european ice-hockey, very solid league and organization, with huge money from Gazprom and other sponsors who have access to Russian natural resources. It,s f..cing rich international league, with clubs from Finland (Jokerit), Slovakia( Slovan),Kazakhstan (Barys Astana),Belorussia (Dynamo Minsk) and Latvia ( Dynamo Riga). In last season we had Lev Prague from Chezh Republic, but they left KHL because of bankruptcy. We could see the real expansion by KHL side. But.....The main point is, IN ANY CASE,all the best players from this solid league with crazy salaries and tiny taxes STILL to jerk off on NHL..... You know why? Because,all the best players in europe STILL have AMBITION,VANITY to play against BEST PLAYERS in the world , against such guys as Crosby( Lebron James), Ovechkin ( Kevin Durant), Malkin( Harden), Toews ( Curry), Kane ( Westbrook)...... Oh, yes Artemiy Panain king of KHL (this guy just got victory in Gagarin Cup) just signing contract with Chicago Blackhawks...Seems like he has a good taste indeed..... He doesn,t give a fu..k about "best league in europe", all their unique organization and with their manic determination to keep talents in this continent and fight with NHL..... All european diamonds have a dream to play BEST AGAINST THE BEST.....
    Last edited by vaslover; 05-03-2015 at 02:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iskoch View Post
    you may call it arrogance but i don't want to see in euroleague teams with €2M budget that in the middle of the season releases half of players...
    So probably you don't want to see Neptunas (2mln budget) and Galatasaray (released half of their players in mid season), but what it has to do with Zalgiris? With our 6mln budget we should be somewhere close to Crvena Zvezda, which is in your list btw. However, I surely don't mind you excluding Zalgiris from your list as long as you are not some Bartomeu, anyone is free to make own fantasy league, but just get your facts straight next time. As it sounds not arrogant, but more like ignorant


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