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Thread: European prospects born 97'

  1. #41
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    He for sure showed as much as Kormaz, Zubac, Bender, Thon Maker, Hernangomez etc. They are all drafted based on potential. Out of European prospects, only Luwawu, Zagorac and Zipser played a lot of minutes and made a difference (I don;t count Sabonis and Poeltl who are both NCAA prospects). So that is their choice how they see him in the future. Big men get overdrafted anyway since they are always in demand and very few are of a high quality. So teams often spend high picks on them, even if they are not as elite as some other positional players.

    Zizic is the most accomplished euro big in this draft, but at the same time he is a low ceiling prospect in many ways. That has affected his draft stock quite a lot. He played at a great level for his age, the issue is they don't think he can get much better and is limited in many aspects. Papagiannis is more imposing physically for sure but also more raw. If he puts it together he might be a better pro.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by slice me nice View Post
    where Ante Zizic was selected 23rd overall and Ivica Zubac 32nd overall. That's just a stupid decision. Both Zizic and Zubac have been much much better players than Papagiannis throughout their short careers. Everyone who follows youth basketball knows what kind of a meaningless draft shot it was.
    Weird, I do follow youth basketball and I don't remember them being "much better players".
    Papagiannis was in the eurobasket's first team last summer. Since then he got minutes in euroleague and had 6.5 ponts in 11.5 minutes in the Greek league. I see Zizic had 13.4 points in 25.7 minutes in the Adriatic league in a mid-table team.

    I don't see what makes them better in their short careers.

  3. #43
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    He for sure showed as much as Kormaz, Zubac, Bender, Thon Maker, Hernangomez etc. They are all drafted based on potential. Out of European prospects, only Luwawu, Zagorac and Zipser played a lot of minutes and made a difference (I don;t count Sabonis and Poeltl who are both NCAA prospects). So that is their choice how they see him in the future. Big men get overdrafted anyway since they are always in demand and very few are of a high quality. So teams often spend high picks on them, even if they are not as elite as some other positional players.

    Zizic is the most accomplished euro big in this draft, but at the same time he is a low ceiling prospect in many ways. That has affected his draft stock quite a lot. He played at a great level for his age, the issue is they don't think he can get much better and is limited in many aspects. Papagiannis is more imposing physically for sure but also more raw. If he puts it together he might be a better pro.
    If we are addressing their potentials then the situation of Papagiannis gets worse. We are talking about a guy whose efficiency has been decreasing in progress of time. The first time when he showed himself up was in 2013 where he put great numbers on stat sheets. In 2014, he only averaged 8,6 PPG in WC and 8,1 PPG in 2015. Since I had followed those games, it is safe to say that he was far from the elite level to be considered as the Top-15 draftee. Putting aside the numbers, Papagiannis is extremely weak for a guy who has that type of body, missing lateral quickness and terrible athlete for NBA standards. There is no way there is a room for him in the constantly changing NBA game style with the current assets that he has. In a team where there is a normal GM, he shouldn't have been selected that high. All laughable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly_fan View Post
    Weird, I do follow youth basketball and I don't remember them being "much better players".
    Papagiannis was in the eurobasket's first team last summer. Since then he got minutes in euroleague and had 6.5 ponts in 11.5 minutes in the Greek league. I see Zizic had 13.4 points in 25.7 minutes in the Adriatic league in a mid-table team.

    I don't see what makes them better in their short careers.
    Then you didn't watch this one.

    Papagiannis - FIBA U19

    8,1 PPG, 7,7 RPG, 0,1 APG

    Zizic - FIBA U19

    13 PPG, 7 RPG, 0,3 APG

    Zubac - FIBA U19

    17,6 PPG, 7,9 RPG, 1,3 APG

    End of the story. No need to mention these two Croats are long term prospects with the constant development that he has shown so far on the contrary Papagiannis.

  4. #44
    Senior Member AmonRA's Avatar
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    I watched a lot games of that trio(in senior teams), and Zizic is by far best player among them..
    Zubac is overhyped, I didnt se nothing special from him, and Papagiannis is as we said clasical wood..

    But they are all very young, so we will see how they will developed during the time...

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by slice me nice View Post
    If we are addressing their potentials then the situation of Papagiannis gets worse. We are talking about a guy whose efficiency has been decreasing in progress of time. The first time when he showed himself up was in 2013 where he put great numbers on stat sheets. In 2014, he only averaged 8,6 PPG in WC and 8,1 PPG in 2015. Since I had followed those games, it is safe to say that he was far from the elite level to be considered as the Top-15 draftee. Putting aside the numbers, Papagiannis is extremely weak for a guy who has that type of body, missing lateral quickness and terrible athlete for NBA standards. There is no way there is a room for him in the constantly changing NBA game style with the current assets that he has. In a team where there is a normal GM, he shouldn't have been selected that high. All laughable.



    Then you didn't watch this one.

    Papagiannis - FIBA U19

    8,1 PPG, 7,7 RPG, 0,1 APG

    Zizic - FIBA U19

    13 PPG, 7 RPG, 0,3 APG

    Zubac - FIBA U19

    17,6 PPG, 7,9 RPG, 1,3 APG

    End of the story. No need to mention these two Croats are long term prospects with the constant development that he has shown so far on the contrary Papagiannis.
    So you're using 2-year-old data to compare 19-year olds?
    Yeah, good job.

  6. #46
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oly_fan View Post
    So you're using 2-year-old data to compare 19-year olds?
    Yeah, good job.
    That was just one year ago. Time to change your calculator.

  7. #47
    Senior Member CoachZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slice me nice View Post
    If we are addressing their potentials then the situation of Papagiannis gets worse. We are talking about a guy whose efficiency has been decreasing in progress of time. The first time when he showed himself up was in 2013 where he put great numbers on stat sheets. In 2014, he only averaged 8,6 PPG in WC and 8,1 PPG in 2015. Since I had followed those games, it is safe to say that he was far from the elite level to be considered as the Top-15 draftee. Putting aside the numbers, Papagiannis is extremely weak for a guy who has that type of body, missing lateral quickness and terrible athlete for NBA standards. There is no way there is a room for him in the constantly changing NBA game style with the current assets that he has. In a team where there is a normal GM, he shouldn't have been selected that high. All laughable.
    Numbers in youth competitions mean jack shit. Half of the prospects that put up number as acellerants who are exploiting the physical gap against other prospects. They rarely transfer and show the realistic assessment of a prospect in the senior level basketball. So just stop that. It's an easy way to sound retarded. Otherwise Vladimir Dasic would've been a new LeBron James etc...

    Papagiannis is by far the best natural rebounder for a center of the mentioned prospects. This is a key aspect if you wanna be a big in NBA, while in Europe you can get by without it in NBA if you can't rebound you basically suck at playing the position. He is not an impressive athlete, even though he plays above the rim, but is very fluid and coordinated. That is much more important for a big anyway. To talk about the difference in athleticism between Zizic, Zubac and Papa is just stupid. Since those are really nuances. Neither of them possess elite athleticism for it to be an asset. They are all limited in that regard. Also big frame bigs take LONGER to grow into their body and reach athletic peak. Compared to Zizic type of bigs. Think about Divac for example, he grow into his best athletic shape in Charlotte years. Go check out how old was he then.

    If it was European basketball Zizic would've been the best prospect due to the style of play here and requirements from centers. In NBA style of play, Papa is the banger type that will have a space on NBA roster. He is not a guy for small ball heavy bball but has many other things to offer. He needs to be down to 255 (he measured 265 at predraft I think) so if he cuts another 15 pounds he will be even better. It all depends on his work ethic. He has the tools.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by slice me nice View Post
    Actually those pre-draft workouts don't have much influence on the decision of GMs. The performance there is just helping the decision makers to make the final cuts in their minds. Even if Papagiannis would play like Shaq, there is still no way, he can be a Top-15 draftee in a draft class where Ante Zizic was selected 23rd overall and Ivica Zubac 32nd overall. That's just a stupid decision. Both Zizic and Zubac have been much much better players than Papagiannis throughout their short careers. Everyone who follows youth basketball knows what kind of a meaningless draft shot it was.
    papagiannis destroyed zubac last year with national teams. i dont know what career you are talking about,but papagiannis was playing for a f4 contender team so his role was going to be less important than zizic and zubac who play in croatia.

  9. #49
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachZ View Post
    Numbers in youth competitions mean jack shit. Half of the prospects that put up number as acellerants who are exploiting the physical gap against other prospects. They rarely transfer and show the realistic assessment of a prospect in the senior level basketball. So just stop that. It's an easy way to sound retarded. Otherwise Vladimir Dasic would've been a new LeBron James etc...

    Papagiannis is by far the best natural rebounder for a center of the mentioned prospects. This is a key aspect if you wanna be a big in NBA, while in Europe you can get by without it in NBA if you can't rebound you basically suck at playing the position. He is not an impressive athlete, even though he plays above the rim, but is very fluid and coordinated. That is much more important for a big anyway. To talk about the difference in athleticism between Zizic, Zubac and Papa is just stupid. Since those are really nuances. Neither of them possess elite athleticism for it to be an asset. They are all limited in that regard. Also big frame bigs take LONGER to grow into their body and reach athletic peak. Compared to Zizic type of bigs. Think about Divac for example, he grow into his best athletic shape in Charlotte years. Go check out how old was he then.

    If it was European basketball Zizic would've been the best prospect due to the style of play here and requirements from centers. In NBA style of play, Papa is the banger type that will have a space on NBA roster. He is not a guy for small ball heavy bball but has many other things to offer. He needs to be down to 255 (he measured 265 at predraft I think) so if he cuts another 15 pounds he will be even better. It all depends on his work ethic. He has the tools.
    All the numbers in youth competitions are the indicator for the players' potential, especially if we are talking for Euro ones since there is no NCAA or high-school basketball in Europe where there are advanced stats. So of course, I will take the youth competitions into account as while evaluating a player who hasn't shown anything on senior level. Dasic-type will occur and Papagiannis is one of them though, should thank to his physical dominance for making him a promising player while playing U-games. Again repeating, his efficiency has been decreasing just because the difference between the physical tools' of players are becoming shorter. Papagiannis will never ever be that dominant that he used to be in 2013 where he outclassed the opponent bigs' thanks to his size. We all have seen what happened to him against the athletic bigs of USA last year. He simply shitted under his pants and totally outrebounded.

    I even didn't compare them on the basis of athleticism. I just said Papagiannis will face big problems due to lack of lateral quickness, can't be an all-around defender where he has been hyped. All in all, this type of a player can't be a Top-15 draftee, it is just the stupidity of Divac who didn't have no guts to take one of those Croats.

  10. #50
    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slice me nice View Post
    All the numbers in youth competitions are the indicator for the players' potential, especially if we are talking for Euro ones since there is no NCAA or high-school basketball in Europe where there are advanced stats. So of course, I will take the youth competitions into account as while evaluating a player who hasn't shown anything on senior level. Dasic-type will occur and Papagiannis is one of them though, should thank to his physical dominance for making him a promising player while playing U-games. Again repeating, his efficiency has been decreasing just because the difference between the physical tools' of players are becoming shorter. Papagiannis will never ever be that dominant that he used to be in 2013 where he outclassed the opponent bigs' thanks to his size. We all have seen what happened to him against the athletic bigs of USA last year. He simply shitted under his pants and totally outrebounded.

    I even didn't compare them on the basis of athleticism. I just said Papagiannis will face big problems due to lack of lateral quickness, can't be an all-around defender where he has been hyped. All in all, this type of a player can't be a Top-15 draftee, it is just the stupidity of Divac who didn't have no guts to take one of those Croats.


    How can you judge his NBA career while you haven't watched even at the Summer League?Btw he was drafted by the Suns and then he was traded to the Kings.Does Divac control the Suns too??Just say that you don't like him.No need to officialy hate him because he was drafted in the lottery.It wasn't his choice you know.
    1997 - 2012 - 2013

  11. #51
    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Zubac would be drafted lot higher, but he refused be stashed in europe. He insisted going straight to NBA, and teams interested in him pased him.

    Difrece between him and Papagins and Zizic is that he is baby in terms of development and has natrual soft touch. As well as as by far least experience. He started late and as well lost whole year do to injury of practice. At age of 15 he was 204 fat kid that was only shooting 3 s. At 16 he was just rotation guy in Croatia cadets and last year he stared at junoir level. That is good indicator of him catching and overpassing his age group players. To me there was no doubt for him. As he was 16 I stated he is most talented Croatian center since Radja and I'm staying with this words.

    That doesn't mean Papagianis and Zizic are not talented, both have their place in NBA
    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

  12. #52
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1ou View Post
    How can you judge his NBA career while you haven't watched even at the Summer League?Btw he was drafted by the Suns and then he was traded to the Kings.Does Divac control the Suns too??Just say that you don't like him.No need to officialy hate him because he was drafted in the lottery.It wasn't his choice you know.
    Who are telling you these stories? Suns acquired Kings' first round pick in exchange for two first round picks (13 and 28). Basically, Suns even didn't involve in the choice of Papagiannis since they traded their draft rights. It was the plan of Divac from top to down.

    Do not draw a red herring across the path, dude. I am enough mature to not dislike a player who hasn't even shown convincing things in senior level. On the contrary, I like Papagiannis and he is for sure NBA talent but since it comes to his draft pick, I criticize the highness of selection. Even in a parallel universe, this dude shouldn't have selected that high. It is just a bad business when you look at the other possible names from the draft list. Type of shady business notwithstanding his talent.

  13. #53
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    Vojislav Stojanovski is another young player who plays a big role this year in his team(Capo d'Orlando) and he seems to be doing great so far! It's great news especially for a player who was considered a headcase and he is another add to a big list of young Euro players, especially from the former Yugoslavia Republic that are given the chance to play on a high level and take advantage of it. Others are Mesicek, Sedekerskis and Mazzalin and of course the "sure bets" Doncic, Musa and so on! Has anybody watched him this year in Lega A to tell us more??

  14. #54
    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Few years ago I said it's most talented euro generation in long time and it looks so.

    Just watched Bender sucsefully guarding Durant, Zizic dominating ABA leaguem Yusta plays well in ACB, Markanen lookslike lotto pick,Mazalin, Marinkovic, Peno, Mesicek, Zubac, Mikhyliukm Slavica, Papagianis and so on
    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

  15. #55
    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Still has long way to go but Slavica is getting better

    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

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