Lithuania to bounce back?

[omgsomuchpotential]

Lithuania is the Uruguay of basketball. Not Brazil, not Germany, France, Italy or even Netherlands. URUGUAY. Meaning, it's a very small country with a passion for the sport. Keyword being though, a SMALL COUNTRY. A population of 2.5M... Expecting it to maintain a top3-4 position in the world for extended periods of time will only lead you to disappointment. Lithuania can finish in top4 once in a while due to circumstances (good teamwork, opponents not being at full strength etc.), but you simply can't expect much more than that.

In terms of new talent, I think Motiejunas and Valanciunas will need a couple more years to put it all together. Sabonis might not need that much time to start contributing, since he's already a skilled high IQ player with great motor (and these qualities translate very well into men's basketball). Grigonis could be the answer at SG (possibly at PG for short periods of time) in a few years. Gudaitis is a nice backup C for Val. Zalgiris' young PGs are promising. All in all, I think there might be enough talent to compete for that "bounce back" in these coming Olympics. Still, a lot will depend on other things (player development, coaching, competition level etc.).

[Shawshank]

Well, Shawshank, you basically agreed that NT is one or two steps behind than it used to be. With some reasons I agree with some - no. I agree - we are lacking guards/wings and the game is very depended on those, more than on bigs probably. Disagree - these days are more world class teams and we don't have superstars. First, I think more teams stepped up a little bit in Europe to play a decent basketball, but there still only few powerhouses like Spain, France, Lithuania and so...I would even say the middle of 00's was far more competitive and deep because such teams as Germany or Italy could beat almighty full packed Spain or the same Lithuania. These days there are a lot of solid, average NTs, but it's not a world class teams. Actually, for those real world class standards currently I see only USA, Spain, France as a sure case while other teams having transition or problems. Look at Eurobasket 2003, 2004 Olympics and you would see USA, Argentina, Lithuania, Spain, France, Greece, Italy, Germany playing at the level only France and Spain currently playing. Highest quality basketball is rarer these days.

Not having a super stars? Currently maybe so - but again since Sabas or Marčiulionis no-one could make an impact as JV did while being 22yo. Besides, for the Lith NT standards JV had super stars' stats in WC. No-one was scoring 18-20 ppg in the NT in 00's. We just had Euroleague's stars and they shared the ball and played great basketball. Individually JV will surpass Šaras and all the players of 00's. It's not a superstar argument against Lithuania - it's the lack of guards, creative player who brings energy from perimeter. Again, I really feel like you guys underrating JVs, Dmo's and Sabas' upside. First two already playing as the key players for the NT. Most of best 00's guys were just deep bench players at best at that age. There's no centers in Europe at JVs age category better than him, and the same goes with Dmo and Domantas. So I don't see which arguments deny them as a huge upcoming force, specially that JV is already the leader of NT.

Really and What you will do play 3 centers together? First of all Valanciunas finally had break through champ after 3 average champs and he wasnt scoring 18-20 points like you trying to show.D-Mo didnt have yet good champ,What will become from Sabonis nobody knows.Our main team right now is around 1985 generation.Most likely biggest part of them gonna retire from national team after 2016 Olympics.Imagine No Kleiza,Maciulis,Seibutis,Jankunas + Kalnietis and Pocius are both 1986 so they will 31 in 2017 champ,im not even talking about veterans like brothers,jasaitis,javtokas.Buth basically from 2017 national team gonna have other main players except valanciunas,motiejunas,kuzminskas and all of them are bigs and no high quality guards.Yeah Valanciunas and Motiejunas will be better in 2017-2020 circle ,but compare them to 2003-2004 is ridiculuos not even close.I doubt those 2017-2020 teams will be better than 1985 generation leadeaded teams from 2010-2016.Because in 2017 our team gonna lose like 5-6 players that played for Lithuania from 2010.That big hole to cover and you saying that suddenly our future team will be almost as good as our all time best team in 2004 ? really? nobodys knows that,but atleast signs that i see i dont see that.GUARDS are CREATORS OR CONTROLERS,you can have 5 nba centers but if you will put them with 5 lkl guards you will go nowhere 2017 team Valanciunas,Motiejunas,Kuzminskas,Sabonis and plus Gecevicius and Juskevicius +Lekavicius,Karinauskas,Gudaitis similair team to this i woundt call one step behind 2004,its like 5 high quality players behind 2004 team

Yes maybe the elite teams are less,but thats my point those average team on good day can beat Lithuania or France or what ever.I doubt in middle 00s that macedonia or bosnia could beat us even in good day.Germany never played seriuos basketball,they were one men teams that won 2 medals in weak champs,in main champs olympic ir pre olympics eurobasketball Nowtizky coundnt do nothing alone.You look at results 2003-2004 2007-2008 2011-2012 that was real champs.Germany do nott belong to that list.

I am sure now competion become way more deeper than it used to be.Spain,France,Lithuania,Greece,Serbia,Croatia,Sl ovenia,Italy,Turkey that is world class teams,that can beat us in playoofs and wouldnt be a shock or something.Obvously Spain and France are in lead,who right now is the 3rd best team from europe very hard to say.Lithuania/Serbia/Greece will have their arguments.Croatia tallent wise is scary and have even more overall tallent that our youngsters do.

Eurobasket 2015 will have 1/8 and 1/4 2 playoofs stages before medal rounds,and those 2 rounds you can easilly lose close games to any of those teams .

[Mindozas]

Yes maybe the elite teams are less,but thats my point those average team on good day can beat Lithuania or France or what ever.I doubt in middle 00s that macedonia or bosnia could beat us even in good day.Germany never played seriuos basketball,they were one men teams that won 2 medals in weak champs,in main champs olympic ir pre olympics eurobasketball Nowtizky coundnt do nothing alone.You look at results 2003-2004 2007-2008 2011-2012 that was real champs.Germany do nott belong to that list.

No man, back in the 00s WC still did matter for top players, let's say 2002 and 2006 were really deep tournaments what comes to stars presence in their NTs. The same goes for pre-WC Eurobaskets in early 2000s. One or few players could miss it, but majority was there, not like it's now, when few are there and most are missing. The same Germany was really good team, of course Nowitzki was top gun, but they had players like Okulaja, who was one of the key guys in Barca with Saras, Karnisovas, Navarro and etc. they also had good center in Femerling, who played for European top teams, the same Barca if I remember correctly. In 2001 they even had Shawn Bradley Ok, that's more of the joke. F.e. I remember that Germany in 2003 were rated as favorites against Lithuania to win the group we were together in. So they were really respectable team in early 00s. Overall, I do agree with you about everything you said about our NT, wrote more or less the same myself, but international basketball level in 00s was so much higher and really competitive, probably the best ever. Now it dropped big time, that 00s generation is goin' off the stage and new one is nowhere near to fill the shoes, overall top teams level dropped, so some smaller ones can catch up

[Miškinis]

Lithuania is the Uruguay of basketball. Not Brazil, not Germany, France, Italy or even Netherlands. URUGUAY. Meaning, it's a very small country with a passion for the sport. Keyword being though, a SMALL COUNTRY. A population of 2.5M... Expecting it to maintain a top3-4 position in the world for extended periods of time will only lead you to disappointment. Lithuania can finish in top4 once in a while due to circumstances (good teamwork, opponents not being at full strength etc.), but you simply can't expect much more than that.

Lietuva is big (when it comes to basketball) starting from 1937 year. Our expectations were and still remains high. Population was never an issue for us. Foreigners tend to say words similar to yours. Yet we are still on top. With some ups and downs. But in general on top. So please...

[Mindozas]

Lithuania is the Uruguay of basketball. Not Brazil, not Germany, France, Italy or even Netherlands. URUGUAY. Meaning, it's a very small country with a passion for the sport. Keyword being though, a SMALL COUNTRY. A population of 2.5M... Expecting it to maintain a top3-4 position in the world for extended periods of time will only lead you to disappointment. Lithuania can finish in top4 once in a while due to circumstances (good teamwork, opponents not being at full strength etc.), but you simply can't expect much more than that.

Well, what comes to population Uruguay suits us the best, but that's all I'm afraid Uruguay in football was great in 1st half of century, dominating a lot, won Olympics twice, World Cup twice and could do it more if not withdrawals in 1934-1938 and WWII. But after 1950-1954 they showed not much, weren't really favorites even in 2010 when finished 4th. Lithuanian bball is different. I'd say we are more like Netherlands are in last 50 years, after Cruyff generation stepped in. They has more population, but are even smaller country than we are. They are crazy about football, they has footbal league in European terms close to our LKL in bball, producing talent for bigger leagues, having few good teams like Ajax, PSV in top international competitions, used to win smth like Zalgiris did, but nowadays they almost never goin' past some top16. Also in terms on they NT status. They also always not top1 candidate, but among teams, which can win a medal, also they had lot of bad luck like our NT had, losing some important games, bein' close to titles, but got it just once in last 50 years. Also now they undergoes generation changes, this summer was top4 team in the world like we were. Btw, Dutch side always prefered to play offensive football like LT in bball, just last summer we both played little bit more cautious cause of that change of generations. Their bball is somewhere where our football is. Maybe I could think of smth more, but to me we are Netherlands of bball

[omgsomuchpotential]

Well, what comes to population Uruguay suits us the best, but that's all I'm afraid Uruguay in football was great in 1st half of century, dominating a lot, won Olympics twice, World Cup twice and could do it more if not withdrawals in 1934-1938 and WWII. But after 1950-1954 they showed not much, weren't really favorites even in 2010 when finished 4th. Lithuanian bball is different. I'd say we are more like Netherlands are in last 50 years, after Cruyff generation stepped in. They has more population, but are even smaller country than we are. They are crazy about football, they has footbal league in European terms close to our LKL in bball, producing talent for bigger leagues, having few good teams like Ajax, PSV in top international competitions, used to win smth like Zalgiris did, but nowadays they almost never goin' past some top16. Also in terms on they NT status. They also always not top1 candidate, but among teams, which can win a medal, also they had lot of bad luck like our NT had, losing some important games, bein' close to titles, but got it just once in last 50 years. Also now they undergoes generation changes, this summer was top4 team in the world like we were. Btw, Dutch side always prefered to play offensive football like LT in bball, just last summer we both played little bit more cautious cause of that change of generations. Their bball is somewhere where our football is. Maybe I could think of smth more, but to me we are Netherlands of bball

Now that I think of it, Netherlands seems like a better analogy than Uruguay.

[Straight forward]

2017 team Valanciunas,Motiejunas,Kuzminskas,Sabonis and plus Gecevicius and Juskevicius +Lekavicius,Karinauskas,Gudaitis similair team to this i woundt call one step behind 2004,its like 5 high quality players behind 2004 team

Ok, it's all speculation, but come one - things are changing faster than you think. I remember you saying that here's no way JV or Dmo will be the key players of 2016, but they basically where exactly this summer already. And those 2 surely will be more important than Kleiza and Mačiulis if we get to Olympics, because they simply going further every day and becoming a force. That's already improvement because Kleiza and Mačiulis will stay more or less at the same level. From guards now Grigonis is shinning for his age. We'll just have to wait and see, but I hope a lot of changes in the backourt since 2017. Some youngsters with the high upside as well in perspective - like Varnas.

Besides, I didn't exactly say we can match 2004 in terms of the level, but I think the bounce back means we can get closer to that from the recent perspective. Besides, imagine couple of star guards prevail and this upcoming generation could be even better. As of fact, Šiškauskas came from woods literally and Macijauskas was surpassed by Zavackas in U- level...

[Modis]

Well, what comes to population Uruguay suits us the best, but that's all I'm afraid Uruguay in football was great in 1st half of century, dominating a lot, won Olympics twice, World Cup twice and could do it more if not withdrawals in 1934-1938 and WWII. But after 1950-1954 they showed not much, weren't really favorites even in 2010 when finished 4th. Lithuanian bball is different. I'd say we are more like Netherlands are in last 50 years, after Cruyff generation stepped in. They has more population, but are even smaller country than we are. They are crazy about football, they has footbal league in European terms close to our LKL in bball, producing talent for bigger leagues, having few good teams like Ajax, PSV in top international competitions, used to win smth like Zalgiris did, but nowadays they almost never goin' past some top16. Also in terms on they NT status. They also always not top1 candidate, but among teams, which can win a medal, also they had lot of bad luck like our NT had, losing some important games, bein' close to titles, but got it just once in last 50 years. Also now they undergoes generation changes, this summer was top4 team in the world like we were. Btw, Dutch side always prefered to play offensive football like LT in bball, just last summer we both played little bit more cautious cause of that change of generations. Their bball is somewhere where our football is. Maybe I could think of smth more, but to me we are Netherlands of bball

Good comparison to Netherlands never thought of that. But I thing Club wise we should be ranked with someone else. To someone higher a little bit. Maybe France or Portugal

[Modis]

Valanciunas Age 23 NBA Raptors
Motiejunas Age 24 NBA Houston Rockets
D.Sabonis Age 19 NCAA Gonzaga Bulldogs Possibly to NBA in couple of years
Gudaitis Age 22 A drafted player Sacramento Kings

I love our future Front Court . Beast.

[Thunder]

Valanciunas Age 23 NBA Raptors
Motiejunas Age 24 NBA Houston Rockets
D.Sabonis Age 19 NCAA Gonzaga Bulldogs Possibly to NBA in couple of years
Gudaitis Age 22 A drafted player Sacramento Kings

I love our future Front Court . Beast.

Please, Dmo, JV, Sabonis is real materieal, but even i had great expectations from Gudaitis in this summer NBA league but nothing special happened.
Seems like awaiting Adas Juskevicius future. Went to Lietuvos Rytas for bigger money and screwed up his season . Step backward (maybe) and really not forward. I hope it wont happen but, we will see at the end of season.

[macleopard13]

Let's not write off Gudaitis just because he chose Rytas. If he's really talented or hardworking, a season in Vilnius won't corrupt him. Look at Valanciunas, Dzikic really screwed up his season, limited his playing time, but he still dominated in the EuroCup.

[omgsomuchpotential]

Valanciunas Age 23 NBA Raptors
Motiejunas Age 24 NBA Houston Rockets
D.Sabonis Age 19 NCAA Gonzaga Bulldogs Possibly to NBA in couple of years
Gudaitis Age 22 A drafted player Sacramento Kings

I love our future Front Court . Beast.

What I like about this frontcourt is that the backups (Gudaitis at C, Sabonis at PF) provide something that the starters don't. In Gudaitis case it's the mobility on the defensive end that slow-footed Valanciunas just doesn't have, and at the PF spot Sabonis provides elite rebounding, an area in which Motiejunas is pretty poor.

[Svajunas]

What I like about this frontcourt is that the backups (Gudaitis at C, Sabonis at PF) provide something that the starters don't. In Gudaitis case it's the mobility on the defensive end that slow-footed Valanciunas just doesn't have, and at the PF spot Sabonis provides elite rebounding, an area in which Motiejunas is pretty poor.

Gudaitis is mobile but he is also lost on the defensive end. Im not gonna even start to compare DMO to Domantas.

[omgsomuchpotential]

Gudaitis is mobile but he is also lost on the defensive end. Im not gonna even start to compare DMO to Domantas.

I think you completely missed the point of my post. I wasn't saying those players are of equal caliber.

[Straight forward]

Call me optimist, but I still reservedly stick around this thread, after this summer even more (U-18 talents particularly). If we can have such a "steal" tournaments with limited rosters as we had in 2013-2015, we can expect a leap in terms of the quality in upcoming 10 years.

C: Valanciunas, Gudaitis
PF: Motiejunas, Sabonis
SF: Sedekerskis, Kuzminskas, Giedraitis
SG: Varnas, Grigonis
PG: Lekavicius

These kind of speculations (projecting 18-22yo player's abilities in the first place) always tend to confront the reality, details, and so on, but you have to agree the picture looks intriguing. All bigs of C, PF section are NBA material and now it is pretty much a fact. We already witnessed Kuzminskas can be a strong player for NT and can get only better next 6 years. Sedekerskis is another clear cut NBA talent with a skillset we didn't see for a long time from SF player. There's no huge prospects at PG, but the wings like Varnas and Grigonis have enough of ability to read the game and to create to compensate that and I still think Lekavicius is a real player. In terms of the roster and individual talent I can see a leap. Some food for optimism