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Thread: Lithuania to bounce back?

  1. #101
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuDux View Post
    Using FIBA system
    1993-1996 1.USA 2.CRO 3.RUS 4.SRB 5.LTU
    1995-1998 1.SRB 2.USA 3.LTU
    1997-2000 1.USA 2.SRB 3.RUS 4.LTU
    1999-2002 1.SRB 2.USA 3.ARG 4.FRA 5.ESP 6.GER 7.LTU
    2001-2004 1.ARG 2.SRB 3.USA 4.ITA 5.ESP 6.GER 7.PUR 8.LTU
    2003-2006 1.ARG 2.ESP 3.USA 4.GRE 5.ITA 6.LTU
    2005-2008 1.ESP 2.USA 3.GRE 4.ARG 5.LTU
    2007-2010 1,USA 2.ESP 3.ARG 4.LTU
    2009-2012 1.USA 2.ESP 3.RUS 4.LTU
    2011-2014 1.USA 2.ESP 3.FRA 4.SRB 5.LTU
    2013-2016 1.USA 2.SRB 3.ESP 4.FRA 5.LTU
    2015-2018 1.USA 2.SRB 3.ESP 4.LTU
    Good input!


  2. #102
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Result wise 2013-2016 was very strong candidate for one of the best olympic cycles in our national history.Was no fiasco,played in all tournaments,won 2 medals,made 3 semifinals,played in all playoofs.No other olympic cycle can say that.

    I say kazlauskas did very good job,his teams didnt played beatifully,but they played smart,winning basketball with good defence.Jonas hided our lack of tallent,you will open history books in 20 years and will see Lithuania was elite in 2013-2016....But that was one of less tallented olympic cycle teams we ever had.That is greatness Jonas Kazlauskas leaves after him.
    The problem was that after the results of 2013-15 and just how well the team seemed to be coming along in training camp, the hopes/expectations of Lithuanian basketball fans were sky high. Maybe the team could finally get to an Olympic final, maybe the #2 FIBA rating could be just another successful tournament away! Those hopes though were very decisively dashed.


  3. #103
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    The problem was that after the results of 2013-15 and just how well the team seemed to be coming along in training camp, the hopes/expectations of Lithuanian basketball fans were sky high. Maybe the team could finally get to an Olympic final, maybe the #2 FIBA rating could be just another successful tournament away! Those hopes though were very decisively dashed.

    With all due respect , and i mean that , i totally disagree with you . Our hopes that got "decisively dashed " in Olympics were only in swimming and modern pentathlon . Boxing and wrestling came close second ,but basketball ...?
    I am upset about the way we performed in the last 3 games and those ,for the final result we have achieved , but by no means i am in despair .
    I feel that our general "health " as of where our basketball stands at the moment is excellent . It had never been better ,ever, the way i see it .
    Our NT team - we are not stuck in the past ,with plenty of talent coming fresh .
    Youth teams - all of them 3 got medals in Euros under 20 and 16 and WC under 17 . Our under 18 team is excellent and contenders as well once it happens later in the year .
    We never had 4 youngsters playing for Barcelona , Tau and Brose .
    LKL is just brimming with names and talents away from Zalgiris and Lrytas .
    Number of our teams that will be playing in European tournaments is that big that I even lost a count . Never happened before .
    NKL is getting better, especially once they changed the system .
    We have that many non NT players playing in Spain ,Turkey Italy top divisions .
    So let me put it this way - we are not falling behind ,at least in Europe .
    Not sure if we can reach the heights we were able to in the last 4 years ,because it was so close in so many games ,and we got lucky because we were stronger just by the single margin, but hell ....

  4. #104

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    We needed Pocius in OG. His decent shape at LKL finals wasn't a fluke. He nailed 18pts against Barsa, now 18pts against Grigonis' Tenerife. Be it friendly games, but he looks good and NT probably could go harder after him, off course knowing circumstances they maybe couldn't, but Pocius probably was the only guard who Kazlauskas had actually played (imagine that! Ok, no jokes about Kazlauskas, I know some of guys here would kill me if I say something bad about him ). Grigonis looks decently in those friendly games, nailed 13pts, tried to be aggressive in the clutch, but didn't work this time.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    We needed Pocius in OG. His decent shape at LKL finals wasn't a fluke. He nailed 18pts against Barsa, now 18pts against Grigonis' Tenerife. Be it friendly games, but he looks good and NT probably could go harder after him, off course knowing circumstances they maybe couldn't, but Pocius probably was the only guard who Kazlauskas had actually played (imagine that! Ok, no jokes about Kazlauskas, I know some of guys here would kill me if I say something bad about him ).
    Not smth bad, but smth wrong. There's a big difference, you know So don't blame it all on us, Kazlauskas "fanboys" Btw, Kazlauskas didn't cut Pocius just like that. He always liked Pocius and was giving him a chance, he is not some Gecevicius, who doesn't fit in schemes. But Pocius said himself after the season that he is exhausted mentally and physically and not sure if he has anything left in him for NT. Coach was well aware of that, that was basically the main reason why Pocius was left out. I think it's only for the better for player himself, now we see that bein' fresh and rested, with clear mind, he could still do very well. Not a fact that it would happen with NT tho. Let's just hope that he will stay injury free upcoming season, he still might be very usefull, especially during those qualifyin' windows


  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Btw, Kazlauskas didn't cut Pocius just like that. He always liked Pocius and was giving him a chance, he is not some Gecevicius, who doesn't fit in schemes. But Pocius said himself after the season that he is exhausted mentally and physically and not sure if he has anything left in him for NT. Coach was well aware of that, that was basically the main reason why Pocius was left out. I think it's only for the better for player himself,
    Yeah, and I can't blame Pocius or NT at this point. Knowing that he lost his mother recently, they couldn't push him at all. I remember they pushed Mačiulis hard few years ago (was it 2013, 2014?). He wanted to rest, to heal minor injuries, to be with family, but national team was going hard after him and eventually he played. With Pocius it simply couldn't be the case.
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  7. #107
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    Btw, Kazlauskas didn't cut Pocius just like that. He always liked Pocius and was giving him a chance ....
    I think it was Kemzura who gave him vote of confidence .
    http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa...//players.html
    2013 Euro was not a good tournament for him ,stats wise .
    He improved that in 2014 ,mostly in the last 4 games . But as we all know, Kalnietis was missing then .
    I do not remember what happened in 2015 ? Was he injured or he just did not make the cut ?
    So ,Kemzura definitely "liked" him more then Kazlauskas .
    It is really strange to think about the player ,who is barely 30 , like he is some sort of "have been" ,shadow of the player he was in 2010-11 . But as i said before ,as long as he can stay healthy , he has got at least another 3 or 4 years to prove me wrong and make some decent money .

  8. #108
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auris1 View Post
    I think it was Kemzura who gave him vote of confidence .
    http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa...//players.html
    2013 Euro was not a good tournament for him ,stats wise .
    He improved that in 2014 ,mostly in the last 4 games . But as we all know, Kalnietis was missing then .
    I do not remember what happened in 2015 ? Was he injured or he just did not make the cut ?
    So ,Kemzura definitely "liked" him more then Kazlauskas .
    It is really strange to think about the player ,who is barely 30 , like he is some sort of "have been" ,shadow of the player he was in 2010-11 . But as i said before ,as long as he can stay healthy , he has got at least another 3 or 4 years to prove me wrong and make some decent money .
    So you basically said yourself why Kemzura "liked" him more (even tho I find this "like" thing quite strange to say the least, since none really ignored him or smth). He was on his peak during Kemzura's days in NT. It's not who liked him more, but how good player was himself. Since 2013 Seibutis took over, but Pocius still was getting enough playin' time in both 2013 and 2014. In 2015 he skipped NT cause of health issues, wanted to rest, heal injuries. Personally I don't see him goin' back to his best days, since he is a player who relies on his physical tools a lot, but after so many injuries and with age catching him up, it's basically impossible to do that


  9. #109

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    The way Kurtinaitis acting in media, he would surely consider the offer of NT coach. Kazlauskas however might want to stay, I had that impression from his last interview. Interesting situation. Kurtinaitis would be a new fresh start, while Kazlauskas already build particular culture and game plan which might be adjusted and good to go again. Both of those 2 would be a good choice for the NT, I would lean towards Kurtinaitis a little bit more as he would maybe bring new ideas and identity (I only a bit afraid of his players' selection, he made some strange things with Butautas and I find some of his comments in media very strange sometimes). Kazlauskas now has an emotional weight which might hurt his actual game decisions quality and people noticed that he wasn't extremely good rotating players this OG. Maybe spending so much time without a club didn't help him to cope with OG pressure as well. But generally, it's good we have such a solid options. Later I hope Šaras will be on of those as well.
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  10. #110
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    2016 -
    Jonas Kazlauskas – vyr. treneris
    Gintaras Krapikas – treneris
    Darius Maskoliūnas – treneris
    Benas Matkevičius – krepšinio analitikas
    Sigitas Kavaliauskas – fizinio parengimo treneris
    Rimtautas Gudas – gydytojas
    Vytenis Trumpickas – gydytojas
    Aidas Buzelis – fizioterapeutas
    Paulius Jacikas – fizioterapeutas
    Petras Mikučionis – fizioterapeutas
    Aleksej Peleckij – fizioterapeutas
    Juozas Petkevičius – techninis vadybininkas
    Linas Kunigėlis – vadybininkas žiniasklaidai ir rinkodarai
    Žydrūnas Vilenčikas – vyriausias vadybininkas
    2015
    Jonas Kazlauskas – vyr. treneris
    Gintaras Krapikas – treneris
    Darius Maskoliūnas – treneris
    Benas Matkevičius – krepšinio analitikas
    Sigitas Kavaliauskas – fizinio parengimo treneris
    Rimtautas Gudas – gydytojas
    Vytenis Trumpickas – gydytojas
    Aidas Buzelis – fizioterapeutas
    Paulius Jacikas – fizioterapeutas
    Petras Mikučionis – fizioterapeutas
    Aleksej Peleckij – fizioterapeutas
    Juozas Petkevičius – techninis vadybininkas
    Linas Kunigėlis – vadybininkas žiniasklaidai ir rinkodarai
    Žydrūnas Vilenčikas – vyriausias vadybininkas
    2014
    Vyriausiasis treneris – Jonas Kazlauskas
    Treneris – Gintaras Krapikas
    Treneris – Darius Maskoliūnas
    Treneris/skautas – Benas Matkevičius
    Fizinio parengimo treneris – Sigitas Kavaliauskas
    Gydytojas – Rimtautas Gudas
    Gydytojas – Vytenis Trumpickas
    Fizioterapeutas – Paulius Jacikas
    Fizioterapeutas – Aleksej Peleckij
    Fizioterapeutas – Petras Mikučionis
    Techninis vadybininkas – Juozas Petkevičius
    Administratorius – Žydrūnas Vilenčikas
    Atstovas viešiesiems ryšiams – Linas Kunigėlis
    2013
    Vyr. treneris — Jonas KAZLAUSKAS
    Treneris — Gintaras KRAPIKAS
    Treneris — Darius MASKOLIŪNAS
    Treneris-skautas — Benas MATKEVIČIUS
    Fizinio rengimo treneris — Sigitas KAVALIAUSKAS
    Gydytojas — Rimtautas GUDAS
    Gydytojas — Vytenis TRUMPICKAS
    Masažuotojas — Aidas BUZELIS
    Masažuotojas — Aleksejus PELETSKIS
    Techninis vadybininkas — Juozas PETKEVIČIUS
    Atstovas spaudai — Linas KUNIGĖLIS
    Administratorius — Žydrūnas VILENČIKAS
    2012
    Vyr. treneris — Kęstutis Kemzūra
    Treneris — Valdemaras Chomičius
    Treneris — Robertas Kuncaitis
    Treneris — Donaldas Kairys
    Treneris-skautas — Mantas Šernius
    Fizinio rengimo treneris — Evaldas Kandratavičius
    Gydytojas — Rimtautas Gudas
    Gydytojas — Vytenis Trumpickas
    Masažuotojas — Aidas Buzelis
    Masažuotojas — Aleksejus Peletskis
    Techninis vadybininkas — Juozas Petkevičius
    Atstovas spaudai — Linas Kunigėlis
    Administratorius — Žydrūnas Vilenčikas
    Komandos vadovas — Antanas Guoga
    2011
    Last edited by auris1; 09-19-2016 at 10:58 PM.

  11. #111
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    I guess some of you might wonder why the fuck i posted this long list without any comment or so after all . Maybe not . Who cares . Reason is,I got tired by doing it ,so there it is , my comment ,five days later-
    We need a change . A total overhaul . We need new ideas ,new people coming up with new ideas . New everything .
    Even if Kazlauskas is there to stay , the back court has done their job .
    Benas Matulevicius is a son of coach K's old team mate . Buzelis' dad was one of them too .
    You know what ?
    Krapikas and Maskoliunas are replaceable as well .With ...
    Adomaitis , Maksvytis , Masiulis or even Stombergas .
    Kunigeles left already . maybe more to follow ?

  12. #112

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    Here's some fantasy, prediction game - 2021 EB team*:

    PG Lekavicius (27), Jokubaitis (21)
    SG Grigonis (27), Jogela (23), Sirvydis (21)
    SF Ulanovas (29), Kulboka (23), Sedekerskis (23)
    PF Sabonis (25) Kuzminskas (31)
    C Valanciunas (29), Ehodas/Birutis (24)

    Coach - Jasikevicius

    Here's WC 19 team:

    PG Kalnietis, Lekavicius
    SG Grigonis, Seibutis, Juskevicius/Milaknis
    SF Maciulis, Ulanovas
    SF Sabonis, Kuzmisnkas, Jankunas/Bendzius
    C Valanciunas, Gudaitis

    Here's 2020 OG team (and I go with few bold moves here)

    PG Kalnietis, Lekavicius
    SG Grigonis, Juskevicius, Jogela/Kulboka
    SF Maciulis, Ulanovas (I somehow believe Maciulis will want to be in for the last time and he will be negative for NT)
    PF Sabonis, Kuzminskas, Bendzius
    C Valanciunas, Birutis

    * If the way I see, if all players develop as I expect (best case scenario), 2021 will be on the growing path talent wise no brainer. 2 NBA studs, Euro star forward Kuzminskas, dynamic and solid PG due, and 3 NBA upside players (Kulboka, Jogela, Sirvydis, maybe even Sedekerskis). It's save to say, that on the best case scenario, all peaces would be at least EL quality wise. Which would make this team most talented on the paper since very very long time...
    Last edited by Straight forward; 09-29-2018 at 05:09 PM.
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  13. #113
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    If by "bounce back" you mean reaching occasional podium in EB or WC competition, then yes, that is an achievable goal for this bunch. But can this squad actually peak for at least one year and finally win it all again just like in 2003? Remember, we didn't even have a good coach back then, with a daddy Sireika cheering players from the sidelines lol. We also didn't have any accompolished players from NBA neither, only a group of talented determined Euroleague players who gave their all on the court. I'm personally sick and tired of finishing 3rd or 4th and calling this result "acceptable" or celebrating it like we've won the whole damn thing...no, I wanna see our players standing on the highest step of the podium again!

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    If by "bounce back" you mean reaching occasional podium in EB or WC competition, then yes, that is an achievable goal for this bunch. But can this squad actually peak for at least one year and finally win it all again just like in 2003? Remember, we didn't even have a good coach back then, with a daddy Sireika cheering players from the sidelines lol. We also didn't have any accompolished players from NBA neither, only a group of talented determined Euroleague players who gave their all on the court. I'm personally sick and tired of finishing 3rd or 4th and calling this result "acceptable" or celebrating it like we've won the whole damn thing...no, I wanna see our players standing on the highest step of the podium again!
    With this I actually agree.

    Here's the historical cross-section of the NT. In the period of 1992 - 2008 we were an elite team par axellence. After 2008 - boom! We're falling...and we regressed and hasn't been yet able to bounce back since than. 2008 was the last tournament when we were legit contenders and we were top 4 team in the world. After that we never been close. With that having said, I don't believe we have any chances to get back to the level we used to have. Not this decade. We simply don't have a talent. In the backourt - we have 2 EL rotation players and ageing Kalnietis. That's just not good enough. In 2019WC we may come up with a surprise and overachieve again, but I just don't see us having a chance to be among top 4 teams in OG 2020 if we will even be there.

    However, next decade, starting with 2021 I believe we may have a growth finally. Historically looking it would be extremely strange if we would stay in this period of regress. I think it's save to say that we had an elite teams in 80s, 90s and 00s. We fell in 10's, but BB in Lithuania thrived too long and too consistently to suddenly just start to gradually decline, BB is too popular here, too well established to decline. The fall was so tremendous (compare Saras, Siska, Macijauskas, Kaukenas, Giedraitis, Slanina backourt with Kalnietis, Pocius, Seibutis, Delininkaitis, Juskevicius...it's a huge fall) that I don't believe we can stay in the same hole talent wise. It's almost literally impossible, IMO. It's been a rough period, but we have too good system and too many talents to be so dreadfully short and untalented at backourt for another decade. So I do expect positive changes, specially seeing 18yo talents as Sirvydis and Jokubaitis showing some great signs at the pretty high level and plenty more promising youngsters.

    We can call 10's a decade of the busts (I don't know if that's the issue of Lith BB analytics back than or anything, but so many people overrated so many players like Janavicius, Vasiliauskas, Juskevicius, Cizauskas, Gecevicius, Seskus, Viskontas, Kariniauskas and plenty of others who haven't pan out to EL level players...). I believe our BB media has improved a bit, no-one tries to overhype first young player possible and also NBA scouts give us now some reality checks (in eraly 10's the NBA scouts wasn't so occupied with European market as they are now...). We can't anymore speculate that some Valinskas, Varnas are NBA prospects because they are not - they are soft and they don't have physical tools required. If there will be NBA material in Lithuania we will hear that from USA media also.
    Last edited by Straight forward; 10-19-2018 at 02:01 PM.
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  15. #115
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    To add - you are not operating in a vacuum and I think the competition to be a medal contender is much more crowded than a decade ago. Numerous countries seem to be stockpiling deep talent pools. Countries that were never really on Lithuania's competitive radar a decade ago now seem on par or with deeper talent pools. Besides the USA and traditionals like Serbia and Spain, you need to add France, Latvia, Turkey, Greece, Canada, Australia and seemingly Germany, Croatia and Slovenia into the mix too. Lithuania seems to have longstanding advantages in coaching, tactics, chemistry but you could be looking up at more than a half dozen countries in terms of raw talent.....not that this always matters...

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo13 View Post
    To add - you are not operating in a vacuum and I think the competition to be a medal contender is much more crowded than a decade ago. Numerous countries seem to be stockpiling deep talent pools. Countries that were never really on Lithuania's competitive radar a decade ago now seem on par or with deeper talent pools. Besides the USA and traditionals like Serbia and Spain, you need to add France, Latvia, Turkey, Greece, Canada, Australia and seemingly Germany, Croatia and Slovenia into the mix too. Lithuania seems to have longstanding advantages in coaching, tactics, chemistry but you could be looking up at more than a half dozen countries in terms of raw talent.....not that this always matters...
    You right. At the moment we simply can't fill the weak spots. Everything else we do have - determination, culture, tradition, even if we lack good coaching at the moment (fingers crossed Jasikevicius takes the job soon). You made a good point that now "on the paper" we got a handful of teams which pure talent wise are on the same page with Lithuania or better (Latvia, Slovenia, potentially Germany, Turkey, Canada and so on), but not necceary yet better than Lithuania in terms of the quality. The way I see it we are clearly inferior to these teams - USA, Serbia, Australia (IMO, these are top three at the moment), France and Spain. After than there's a wild west with 8-10 teams that potentially might be on the same page and Lithuania is only one of these teams basically. Basically because we still have our advantages, but we can't expect to ride only on these intangibles all the time.

    However, the things getting better, IMO. We have few players with NBA potential. Aside already heard names as Kulboka (drafted), Sedekerskis, there's some really nice 18yo wing Sirvydis (some says first round potential), 20yo athletic wing Jogela (both projected for 2020 drafts), talented 17-18yo PG Jokubautis who I expect to pan out into EL's level player as he has IQ and all around skills, and in the long run we have a 16yo Marciulionis JR who has both IQ and advanced physicality to expect to become a baller, maybe even an NBA baller. So personally I expect a growth in the next decade. And we badly need one if we want to have chances to stand out from that bunch of newly born quality national teams.
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  17. #117
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Really cruddy day for Lithuanian basketball yesterday:

    UNIKS 87 Rytas 81
    Promitheas 83 Neptūnas 82
    AEK 65 Lietkabelis 59


  18. #118
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    CSKA Moscow 99 Žalgiris 97 (OT)
    Frankfurt Skyliners 65 Rytas 63

    Another heartbreaker of a day for Lithuanian basketball.


  19. #119
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    I wouldn't really call it a heartbreaker when our biggest clubs are being led by foreigners really (at least in Zalgiris case that is lol). Our best players are still going strong in their respective clubs

  20. #120
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    What a horrible week for Lithuanian teams in European competition, 0-5. At least Rytas, Neptūnas and Lietkabelis put up a fight before going down in the last minute of play. But Žalgiris? I just don't know this year....

    Last edited by Hepcat; 01-10-2019 at 09:23 PM.

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