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Thread: All time NT

  1. #281
    Senior Member LuDux's Avatar
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    So happy for Valanciunas

  2. #282
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    looking at history from youth tournaments i think most important tournaments is U-19 world cup when players reach age where turning to men and we start seeing who is who.

    2011 U-19 Lithuana 1st Gold medal Valanciunas 23pts,Cizauskas 13,Redikas 12,Ulanovas 11,3, Butkevicius 7,2pts (R.Giedraitis on bench)

    2013 U-19 Lithuania 3rd Bronze medal Grigonis 13pts,T.Dimsa 12,3pts,L.Lekavicius 9,1pts

    2015 LTU didnt qualife for U-19 it had D.Sabonis and nobody else weak 1995-1997 generation similiar to 1987-1989 years.

    2017 U-19 Lithuania 6th place T.Sedekerskis 15,4pts,A.Kulboka 13,7pts,G.Masiulis 10,9pts and R.Jokubaitis 10pts (at age of 17)

    2019 U-19 Lithuania 4th place E.Venskus 12,9pts, R.Jokubaitis 11,3pts,K.Metrikis 10,4pts



    Those best players from those youth world cups makes like 90% of our todays men NT players.Its seriuos indicator trying to guess who will be become who from those kids.


    Same history goes with 1985 generation


    It shows those results is not just guessing from nothing,it gives a seriuos indicators about future chances in men level too.

    Who won medals in youth usually back it up in men tournaments at some point.

    That alone why im high on those 1992-1994 born players now .They were simply better and won medal in those tournaments compared to our later generations of 1996-2000 born kids.

    we had very strong born kids 1984-1986 we won in 2010-2015

    we had nothing from 1987-1991 and we lost in 2017-2020

    now time came for 1992-1994 to show us what they can do in 2021-2024.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 03-02-2021 at 04:06 PM.

  3. #283

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    Interesting material. And I agree that U19 is probably most interesting stage. Players already not exactly kids and they get a test of all world's teams. If we look at our current NT, we won't find a guy who wouldn't make Youth NTs. Not all of them were very bright, R. Giedraitis is the best example, but nevertheless they made youth NTs of their age class. I disagree however that winning medals is huge indicator here. Kalnietis never won medal as a main PG in Youth level, but he was our best guard of 10's. Sabonis played with crappy guys around him, but he's an ALL STAR. Again, IMO, you're expect too much from JV's generation, but if they can pull it off then better do it now in 2021. Were my optimism comes from is that we are really building strong since 1992 JV's generation:

    1994 Grigonis, 1996 Sabonis, 1998 Sedekerskis, 1999 Brazdeikis, Velicka, 2000 Jokubaitis, Sirvydis, 2002 Tubelis, Marciulionis, 2004 Murauskas, Buzelis. (I even excluded some of the pieces like D. Giedraitis, Kulboka, Masiulis, Jogela, Blazevic, Rubstavicius, just to name those who to me seems to be nearly locks to be long term true NT material)

    IMO, 2021 U19 might be special historically, cause it might be the biggest 2 elite talents punch in Tubelis, Marciulionis since...whatever...Maybe even Sabonis/Ronney. And funny enough, 2 years later we might have another 2 huge gems in Murauskas, Buzelis. We're on a good track.

    Speaking about medals. Velicka has 4 collections. He's by far the king of Youth basketball at this point and he carried his teams in some incredible fashions, being super clutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  4. #284
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    even in 1987-1991 was Motiejunas and Kuzminskas ,but 1 or 2 good players only wont help men NT ,when generations changes and main players becomes veteran and not play on same level anymore.NT need more than 2 high quality player in 4 years span for seriuos chances in medals hunts.

    Medals won againt pairs from worlds best tallent shows me that generation have not just tallent,but character in those generation players that is important alot in those tournaments.

    That 1992-1994 now started best years,they will be around and main players all this olympic cycle 2021-2024.And we can see that from their results in clubs right now all of them balling big time on highest levels.

    When 1984-1986 born players came to NT they were leaders like for 5 years,other 5 years as role players.I expect similiar things from 1992-1994.

    Valanciunas is king of youth tournaments 3 golds+1bronze and one 4th place where in bronze game he put like 40pts ,but it still wasnt enough.And he didnt even played u-20 because he was already good enough for men NT.

    Jonas Maciulis have 4 youth medals too + 4 medals in men NT. So he should be considered as undisputed medal king wearing ltu uniform.

    But yeah i didnt know that Velicka have also 4 medals.In such case maybe he has something in him.History dont lie it repeats.


    As always you going way too far with your 2000 milenium kids.

    It goes 4-5 years streaches only then seriuos change happens on most NT.When main players goes to bench and so on.

    Those who cames to NT around 25-26 as top 8 rotation players stays atleast for 4-5 years in that role.

    2021 u-19 tournament will give us indication how much help LTU NT can wait in around 2025 compared to other NT.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 03-02-2021 at 07:59 PM.

  5. #285

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    Motiejunas never became a good player in the NT. He was close in 2014, and was about to be good in 2015, but injury prevented it. So we only had Kuzminskas in 2016, 2017 as really serious addition to already established and starting to decline key players (like it wouldn't be enough, generational talent JV had crappy OG in 2016 and Sabonis missed 2017EB due to NBA career). So, yeah, we badly missed new quality blood in this stretch.

    I meant Velicka is the king after Valanciunas. He sneakingly snatched 4 medals and what's most important he really almost single handedly carried his teams to the podium. However, you trust history too much to repeat

    In previous post I didn't say a thing when my mentioned prospects will make a team But you just stick to some scheme too much. Every decade is different. NT always take best possible puzzle available. If we have great young talents, whey will make a team. Jokubaitis as generational talent should make at 20 (he actually will be more of 21 this summer), Sedekerskis should make it at 23. Then we also have huge talents in Tubelis and Marciulionis and those 2 won't need to wait 2025 to make the team, come on Tubelis will have great chances to make the team in 2022, if he won't be an obvious lock by then. Marciulionis should be ready for 2023, at the age of 21. Jokubaitis, Tubelis, Marciulionis are generational talents since you like that term so much, you just always push that conservative plough and it takes time to you to notice the change. Brazdeikis, Velicka should make it at 22/23, so it's either 2022EB or 2023WC. Sirvydis should be ready at 22/23, so for him he should make NT in 2023WC or 2024OG. That's my projection anyway. Maybe some of them will have to wait if Kuzminskas, Ulanovas, Giedraitis will hold their own for longer and wings like Brazdeikis, Sirvydis will take time to develop. But PF position is thin so all doors are open for beast Tubelis. Marciulionis is a 2 ways freak GUARD, he will kick out all the doors soon. So, hold your breath Shaw, you'll have to deal with quite few changes in pretty short period.

    In 2021-2024 Valanciunas, Sabonis, Grigonis, Jokubaitis should be our key players. Jokubaitis will be the main PG in 2023, 2024 with huge role. So it's a mix of different generations, you emphasize one generation too much. 1992 is nothing but JV (a solid/good FIBA player) and couple of role players, that's all.
    Last edited by Straight forward; 03-02-2021 at 08:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  6. #286
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Look at number unless you are generational tallent (leading our youth nt in scoring doesnt make you one) those u-19 kids is waiting 4-5 years untill they get a role in NT.Im not talking about generational tallent ,but overall how it goes.

    You said same things about 1985 generations and they won multiple medals with limited tallents in men competions and it was same history in their youth days. You are saying now about 1992.

    Never saw generation that won multiple gold medals in youth and couldnt win anything against more less same opponents in their mature years. Jasikevicius era won gold medals in youth won medals in men level,Kleiza generation won gold in youth won medals in men too.Those things is not accidental.

    One youth medal doenst mean nothing,but if same generation won 2 or more yes it shows something especially if it Gold medals.


    For me both 1985 and 1992 players in youth tournaments showed they play not worse in pressure situations,i could argue even better and this element is very important when those panic games starts.

    Im seeing all those Valanciunas,Sabonis,Gudaitis,Ulanovas,Grigonis,Lek avicius,R.Giedraitis being simply locks in 2021-2024 .

    And players from same generation like Butkevicius or Dimsa being always in final top16 candidate list.

    Yeah there will those generational tallents like Jokubaitis or Tubelis ,1-2 players from Sedekerskis generation,but all the heavy lifting in 2021-2024 will be done by 1992-1994 players.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 03-02-2021 at 10:48 PM.

  7. #287

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Look at number unless you are generational tallent (leading our youth nt in scoring doesnt make you one) those u-19 kids is waiting 4-5 years untill they get a role in NT.Im not talking about generational tallent ,but overall how it goes.
    We agree here. That's why I have Jokubaitis, Tubelis, Marciulionis making it early and other quality prospects as Brazdeikis, Sirvydis, Velicka at their 23 or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    You said same things about 1985 generations and they won multiple medals with limited tallents in men competions and it was same history in their youth days. You are saying now about 1992.

    Never saw generation that won multiple gold medals in youth and couldnt win anything against more less same opponents in their mature years. Jasikevicius era won gold medals in youth won medals in men level,Kleiza generation won gold in youth won medals in men too.Those things is not accidental..
    Now you're pushing your self to the corner, cause if JV, Ulanovas, Giedraitis won't lead NT to podium your theory collapses and I don't see this bunch of that kind. You forget that 1992 generation also got huge impact of guys like Cizauskas, Pukis, Redikas, Butkevicius, Skucas. It was incredibly deep generation, but as NT goes it' still just JV basically thus far. BTW, aren't we waiting a little too long already for 1992 generation fruits in senior NT? Kleiza, Maciulis and Co.snatched medals when they were 25 or so. JV will be 29 this summer.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Yeah there will those generational tallents like Jokubaitis or Tubelis ,1-2 players from Sedekerskis generation,but all the heavy lifting in 2021-2024 will be done by 1992-1994 players.
    Likely, but Sabonis is not from 1992, 1994, he's 1996 and likely will be most impactful player overall in upcoming Olympic cycle. So you're just limit your self uncomfortably to this idea that these guys exactly has to do it now. 2010 is a good example. Kids carried us. 24 Kalnietis, 24 Pocius, 25 Kleiza, 25 Maciulis. They were just fine in crunch time They didn't need grandpas to carry them. Every time it's new story and upcoming 2 Olympic cycles will be even more mysterious than ever cause we have tons to RAW talent for our standards and we don't know how it will pan out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  8. #288

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    I think 2011 fuck up is one of the biggest ever with 1999, 2001, 2004 ect. We were second in PPG, first in rebounding, first in three point percentage, forth in assists. That was pretty bad defensive team, but still we had to be in semis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  9. #289

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    Steals are not the only stat to show how good the team is defensively, but boy oh boy 1992 OT stand out in our BB history. 16,9spg while it usually is somewhere between 4 and 8. Surprisingly Kurtinaitis was the beast stealer with crazy 3,6spg. He was smarter and better defender than people think (and player overall, I think he's a bit underrated by some Lith fans). All Sabonis, Marciulionis, Chomicius, Kurtinaitis were snatching around three steals per game, that's ridiculous. Also Krapikas and Karnisovas was decent ball stealers. IDK if it is surely the best defensive team of all time, but it's the best ball hawk team by far we ever had. Interesting that the original dream team had over 20 steals while other USA teams couldn't stand close this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  10. #290
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Judging by the names, they could have played better defensively but did not:

    Šarūnas Jasikevičius, Rimantas Kaukėnas, Darius Songaila, Mantas Kalnietis, Martynas Pocius, Simas Jasaitis, Tomas Delininkaitis, Paulius Jankūnas, Robertas Javtokas, Marijonas Petravičius, Kšyštof Lavrinovič, Jonas Valančiūnas (Coach: Kęstutis Kemzūra)

    That could probably be hung on Coach Kęstutis Kemzūra. Then there was that piece of bad luck when Marijonas Petravičius came down with a lung disease which proved career ending.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 04-05-2021 at 04:42 PM.

  11. #291

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    Hepcat, from these names only Javtokas, Jankunas, Jasaitis are solid defenders. That was so much an offensive team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  12. #292

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    Another myth that I would like to fight against here. "Vets should carry us in crunch time". Really? They might, but they might not as well. 1999 quarter finals, Sabonis Einikis screwed (that's the only time Sabas screws, but still). 2004, we are lacking both Saras and Siska in semis against Italy. 2007 Saras, Kaukenas, Songaila "don't show up" in semis against Russia. 2008 small final against Argentina, Saras, Siska choke. 2011 quarterfinals, and Saras, Songaila's dreadful mistakes cost us semifinals and likely medals. 2012 OG quarterfinals...Saras, Kleiza choked. 2016 JV, Maciulis, Seibutis choke against Aussies. 2017 Maciulis chokes against Greece. I would lean towards the thesis "best players should carry us" instead. 2000 Songaila as a rookie was carrying as nicely (as well as Siska). In 2003 Macas was hitting some clutch shots (Latvia game). In 2007 EB Kleiza carried us against Croatia if I remember correctly. 2010 was lead by 24 years olds. In 2011 JV was huge in important stretch of the tournament. This vets argument is used as stereotype too often.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  13. #293
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    I always thought choke means when team lost game when they should have won.But not in games where team were underdog or lost by 20.

    In same way I can easily find games where P.Gasol 2007 final? or D.Nowitzky 2011 choke?

    So what is your point all time great players cant have bad game or what?

    when naming players like Siskauskas,Macijauskas,Kleiza you realise that they are generational tallents right?

    Or in your logic what they did any rookie kid also can do ?

  14. #294

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    I always thought choke means when team lost game when they should have won.But not in games where team were underdog or lost by 20.

    In same way I can easily find games where P.Gasol 2007 final? or D.Nowitzky 2011 choke?

    So what is your point all time great players cant have bad game or what?

    when naming players like Siskauskas,Macijauskas,Kleiza you realise that they are generational tallents right?

    Or in your logic what they did any rookie kid also can do ?
    Songaila, Tomas Masiulis...too many generational talents you know My point is that we have too many tournaments where vets failed. And sometimes it's some 24 or 25 kid is the best ready for clutch action. And other thing, Sedekerskis may very well be more defensively impactful in 2021 than Ulanovas. May not as well, but I won't be surprise if he will. Physically and athletically he's ready, he's a bull.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  15. #295
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Songaila, Tomas Masiulis...too many generational talents you know My point is that we have too many tournaments where vets failed. And sometimes it's some 24 or 25 kid is the best ready for clutch action. And other thing, Sedekerskis may very well be more defensively impactful in 2021 than Ulanovas. May not as well, but I won't be surprise if he will. Physically and athletically he's ready, he's a bull.
    Songaila just top 20 player in ltu basketball history nothing important i know anyone can play on that level

    T.Masiulis scored 2+7+2= 11 pts combine in 3 olympic playoofs game at age of 25 + played good defence. I dont get point about him neither he was rookie,neither he was kid anymore.

    if u want to say that Sedekerskis can play that T.Masiulis role i agree i can see world where it could happen, if that your point that would be your best today you managed to write here.

  16. #296
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    I see SF had a fun Easter and was on fire yesterday "24-25 year old kid" was the best quote


  17. #297

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    Explicit memories about the title 2003. Video interview with Sireika. 18 years past. God knows when again we'll snatch gold medals:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3Sig8LEYU
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  18. #298
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    i remember well how in 2003 in Klaipeda me with my classmates went to little klaipeda stadium were people was saying goodluck to our NT that tommorow was flying to Sweden play eurobasket. In stadium Zas was singing " Tik nesakyk,kad taip nebuna" song and players come in to stadium and i was thinking we have good solid team,but not medal contenders. Nobody knew what to expect after 2001 eurobasket.

    In stadium i managed to get like 5 or 6 players autografs.That book with them is still alive somewhere in my parents house.

    In 2003 before champ nobody realised even in ltu that Macas and Siska is not just lkl elite players,but entires europes elite guards.

    That kvartet from 2003-2004 Jaska,Siska,Macas,Stomba could be even better today how game is played + add good workers and defenders in both Zukauskai,Songaila,Salenga and we had winning mix.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 04-23-2021 at 12:34 PM.

  19. #299

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    Terrific interview with Rooney. Now it's certain why he couldn't make Sovient NT early on, not because he was bad obviously. Love how he says openly, a good basketball players is about being good 1vs1 both offensively and defensively (everything starts from the latter though). So true, Lith coaches should tatoo that on their wrists. And to be honest all this Vilnius vs Kaunas is such a crap That's why I want Kaukenas, or hell even Javtokas, both guys are neutral, played for both clubs, they would make justice or at least would move old school stagnant screw away a little bit, would move Lithuanian BB forward:

    https://www.basketnews.lt/news-15137...aipas-nba.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  20. #300
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    As im fan Marciulionis fan and knew already all those stories he said.

    It was insane from historic perspective how in 1986 summer Marciulionis was last to be cut and in 1986 November when same Ussr team (minus Sabonis) went to USA play students he was leading scorer in ussr team.In 1987 Marcela was all eurobasket tournament team member,nobody in fair world makes such jumps in one year.

    It was simple as that Chomicius,Kurtinaitis,Jovaisa and Valters long time ussr guards protested behind scenes againts putting 22 old young guard on roster with weak ussr main coach.

    Chomicius and Kurtinaitis denying that to this day,but even Valters in 2020 interview on youtube on his chanell said: zalgiris players cut marcela from ussr team and put all blame on me and start laughing saying that

    When Gomelskis return as main coach cut all that bullshit and took Marcela in 1986 to USA and made him starting Sg of the team and from that point conversation who is best guard in soviet union ended.

    That were nr 13 number on his jersey comes and Marcela said himself those 3 cuts made him stronger person.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 04-27-2021 at 08:34 PM.

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