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Thread: 2013-14 Israeli BSL season

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    Senior Member Idans10's Avatar
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    Default 2013-14 Israeli BSL season

    A column that I posted for the website Eurobasket.com regarding the absurd system of the Israeli league.

    http://basketball.eurobasket.com/Isr...ketball/320594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idans10 View Post
    A column that I posted for the website Eurobasket.com regarding the absurd system of the Israeli league.

    http://basketball.eurobasket.com/Isr...ketball/320594
    Sorry but this is acompletely partisan article. Especially the last part with Maccabi leaving the league is so wrong that it isn't even debatable.
    Maccabi Tel-Aviv is an Israeli club and thus has to participate in the Israeli championship. Complaining about rules or regulations is one thing, threatening to leave the competition is another one.
    Participation in the Adriatic League is not better than in Israel. One year one league is stronger, another year another one. If Maccabi doesn#t play in Israel at all, they are no representatives of Israeli basketball anymore. A lot of people will see it that way, the interest in Maccabi will fall. The league would also lose out as competing against the mighty "zahov" is still a big spectacle for fans of other teams.

    The Final Four system is not super just but it's okay. If you think, you are heands and shoulder above all competition, you have to prove it in any given game. The Final Four or one final game gives everyone the same chance and this is great for excitement, tension and interest. A couple of years ago, Maccabi barely won a very close five games series in the 1/4-finals, if you remember. It is possible to compete with Maccabi in a series. Not every year but it is possible. Right now, the one-and-done thing is the only way to keep interest in the league as it becomes a little less predictable at the end. If the whole playoffs will be played in a series, do you really think, other teams would build better infrastructures and invest more money? Never done so, won't do so. The league will be boring. Eventually, everything will end up in the playoffs all the way but for these few years, the league has had and is having new heroes and more excitement.

    BTW, until recently, the French championship was decided by one final game, too.
    burnstein

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    Senior Member Idans10's Avatar
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    So basically what you are saying is that it's better have an unsporting league, as long as it is interesting, right? Forget the fact that Maccabi worked hard 8 months to secure the 1st place, let's have a final game at the arena of the team who finished 2nd.... Are you serious, man? Why the hell do I need to care regarding other clubs? I want a strong Israeli league, I want Maccabi in the Israeli league - not in any price. Do you imagine a final game in football, for example, between the first and the second, when the difference is 13 points? Is it seem fair to you, that Maccabi won 5 times this season and the only lost was a championship game? ridiculous is a gentle word for this system. The French league is not relevant, one league that plays like this from 200 leagues doesn't make it better for Israel, plus the French already moved back to series. If the other teams don't want/have to build stronger teams, it's not Maccabi's problem, who started from zero 50 years ago and now they considered as one of the bes clubs in Europe. Like I said, no shortcuts in life. You want to succee? invest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idans10 View Post
    So basically what you are saying is that it's better have an unsporting league, as long as it is interesting, right? Forget the fact that Maccabi worked hard 8 months to secure the 1st place, let's have a final game at the arena of the team who finished 2nd.... Are you serious, man? Why the hell do I need to care regarding other clubs? I want a strong Israeli league, I want Maccabi in the Israeli league - not in any price. Do you imagine a final game in football, for example, between the first and the second, when the difference is 13 points? Is it seem fair to you, that Maccabi won 5 times this season and the only lost was a championship game? ridiculous is a gentle word for this system. The French league is not relevant, one league that plays like this from 200 leagues doesn't make it better for Israel, plus the French already moved back to series. If the other teams don't want/have to build stronger teams, it's not Maccabi's problem, who started from zero 50 years ago and now they considered as one of the bes clubs in Europe. Like I said, no shortcuts in life. You want to succee? invest.
    Unsporting? The quarterfinals are being played in a best-of-five series fashion. Sports is nothing without its fans and fans are bored by totally predictable results.
    Hey, one final game has taken place not in Yad Eliyahu. It's not a reason to complain. Again, if Maccabi considers itself to be the best team, it should go out and win any game. Eurobasket WBC and Olympics are also being played by elimination games after the first round stage. No one is complaining.

    Why you need to care about other clubs? Because without other clubs, one single club is nothing. It's all about the competition. Besides, in this case it's the Israeli public interest that goes beyond Maccabi Tel-Aviv.

    Yes, it's absolutely fair to me. You Maccabi can't get its act together in the most important game, it loses. After all, it is not in any different situation than it's opponent. When they played vs. Galil and lost or vs. Holon and lost, nobody cared how they fared during the regular season. That's sports. You lose a game, you win a game.

    Other clubs can't build stronger teams due to lack of money but it's Maccabi's problem as well as Maccabi is highly interested in a strong domestic competition, so it doesn't have to switch to different modi, when playing in Europe and then again in Israel. Other teams invest what they can and they do okay with it. Could do better but they are still winning cups and championships, Jerusalem has even had its very strong phase in the ULEB Cup.

    I don't care, whether it is a series or a single game. If Maccabi is so strong, they have to prove it. They are not the only team playing a single final /Final Four system. These couple of years of different league winners have only generated more interest in the league and the fact that Israeli teams are willing to invest and even play international ball.
    Back in the day, teams weren't playing a series but back-to-back home and away games. For decades, it seemed to be fair enough.
    burnstein

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    You want fair? Cancel the series, cancel the final game. Let's make it like soccer. The club who will finish first is the champion, how about that? My problem is not that the final will be in Yad Eliyahu, my problem is that it shouldn't beone game. In one game we won NBA teams. Does it means that we are better? In one game, Olympiacos won the Euroleague vs. clubs that most probably wouldn't lose to OLY in a series and that's fin when it happenes in a TOURNAMENT system, not in a league system. You play league games during the season in order to achieve the highest place, not to finish 8th with 15 losses more then the 1st place team so that you can win theam in one game (it does happen, you know, for any team in the world) and then to be crowned as champion if though you know deep inside that you aren't the best team.

    The series is the way to decide champions in the domestic leagues at least for the past 30-40 years (I'm not talking about Cup tournaments) and if it's good for the rest of the world, Israel shouldn't be different. As I said, I want other strong clubs and an Israeli domestic league that will be good, but ont on Maccabi's expense and not because of some stupid rules and this, my friend, is a huge stupid rule. You want to be the champion? work hard for it. and yes, Israel is the only country that decide league champion in a final four system and it's more absurd when they play series until the final (or you play playoffs series or not). By the way, I read today that the management will consider to return to series in the final for next year. Even they understood that this "championship" of Haifa is ridiculous.

    Sports is nothing without its fans and fans are bored by totally predictable results.
    And sports is nothing without fair competition. So if a team is better then the others (you do realize that you cannot have a league with equal teams) it's not their problem so the league will start to invent idiot rules in order to create an equality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idans10 View Post
    You want fair? Cancel the series, cancel the final game. Let's make it like soccer. The club who will finish first is the champion, how about that?
    Basketball is different from soccer. Who will watch a playoff series in soccer, a sport with so few highlights (goals)? The season would be very long. Too long for other competitions, like the World Cup. Our sport has a different tradition. Nothing ends with regular season's standings. We have it from America.

    My problem is not that the final will be in Yad Eliyahu, my problem is that it shouldn't beone game. In one game we won NBA teams. Does it means that we are better? In one game, Olympiacos won the Euroleague vs. clubs that most probably wouldn't lose to OLY in a series and that's fin when it happenes in a TOURNAMENT system, not in a league system.
    1. Games vs. NBA teams were simply friendly games.
    2. The EL is not a Cup competition but a mix between league play and Final Four rules.

    Last year, Oly was superbly lucky. This year, they've destroyed their opponents, when it mattered most. They werent the best team for me but they are the champions. They got their act together, when it mattered most. That way, any team can get a chance and it's good that way. CSKA would probably not lose a series in Europe. Perennial champions with the biggest budget with a huge gap to #2. Is it because they are working better? No, it is because they get shady money they would never get in a free market situation in truly free countries. They are just throwing money at people, not doing a decent scouting, not really having a great youth program. Since they show the trend in Russia not to wait but try to "buy" titles, basketball keeps to be underdeveloped in Russia. This huge country has had a league with 10-12 teams, more than half of them being located around the capital city. Germany has 18 teams with more willing to participate, for example. Since people in Russia see the reality, those teams cannot generate any acceptable spectators' numbers. Forgotten are times, when BasketHall in Kazan or the arena in Perm were full and loud.

    You play league games during the season in order to achieve the highest place, not to finish 8th with 15 losses more then the 1st place team so that you can win theam in one game (it does happen, you know, for any team in the world) and then to be crowned as champion if though you know deep inside that you aren't the best team.
    In order to be the champion, you do not have to have the most wins. You have to win, when it matters most. You are also not speculating to be #8. Besides, #1 plays #8 in a best-of-five series. If you become a champ then, then you are really the best team. If you win in a single final game, then you were also best when it mattered most. Regular season crap, where you can try out things, let the youth play, let your veterans rest, doesn't matter then.

    The series is the way to decide champions in the domestic leagues at least for the past 30-40 years (I'm not talking about Cup tournaments) and if it's good for the rest of the world, Israel shouldn't be different.
    It's good for countries, where the market and the reality allow several strong clubs. Not one that is towering above anyone else. Then it becomes boring, as it is predictable. If Maccabi wouldn't have succeeded in Europe, Israeli basketball would be dead.

    As I said, I want other strong clubs and an Israeli domestic league that will be good, but ont on Maccabi's expense and not because of some stupid rules and this, my friend, is a huge stupid rule.
    The rule is very debatable, no question. I also want other clubs to be stronger than they are. Regardless of who wins the championship at the end. It shouldn'T happen at the expense of Maccabi, like inventing a salary cap or sth. like that. Right now, the system doesn'T work at the expense of Maccabi. Maccabi is entitled to do what it wants. It will participate in the EL anyway. It has no budget restrictions. It gets all the TV money. These rules simply give other teams a decent chance.

    You want to be the champion? work hard for it. and yes, Israel is the only country that decide league champion in a final four system and it's more absurd when they play series until the final (or you play playoffs series or not). By the way, I read today that the management will consider to return to series in the final for next year. Even they understood that this "championship" of Haifa is ridiculous.
    The championship for Haifa is great. They will play Eurocup next season. Another Israeli representative in Europe. Maybe, they can keep their squad together and get even stronger. Who knows.
    Working hard is not enough, if the financial means are not there and you need to gather a lot and for a long period of time, if you want to play for the crown. It seems impossible for now. Jerusalem has to more than triple its budget, other teams have to bring up 8-10 times as much. The market in Israel simply doesn't allow it and first and foremost so quickly. Too invest millions upon millions and to lose out for the first 5-10 years is nothing smart businessmen would do. Sport is very short lived.

    If the league returns to a finals series, fine with me. It will give other teams less chances but who knows. Maybe, another Galil will appear on the horizon in 15 years and then lose all of its core players to the teams they have beaten because it can give them a) more money and b) the Euroleague, which the Israeli champion cannot offer because Maccabi Tel-Aviv is there forever.

    And sports is nothing without fair competition. So if a team is better then the others (you do realize that you cannot have a league with equal teams) it's not their problem so the league will start to invent idiot rules in order to create an equality.
    So, if Maccabi gets an equal chance (of course, it has more chances to win than its opponent) as other teams, it is not fair? If a league has no competition, it loses out on public interest. Since Maccabi doesn't gather the best Israeli players like it used to do in the past, relying on foreigner instead (just as other teams do), this doesn't add more public interest, too. As those foreigners are no marquee names anymore and Maccabi doesn't really compete for the EL title, the whole thing loses on publicity and thus on money and thus on quality.

    Hey, what is this whining all about? Maccabi is the strongest team? Go out and show it on the floor. You need a series? Basketball is not soccer, where you can win on a lucky goal, while playing eleven man defense only. You score a lot of points and have a lot of chances to win. Usually, the better team prevails. And if this team is by far the best one, its chances are close to 100%, which is reflected in Maccabi's overall record in Israel. So, you really want Maccabi's chances to be 99% instead of 95%? Yeah, that shows a lot of fearlessness.

    Look, I'm not one of those guys who blame Maccabi for everything, saying they do not represent Israeli basketball, they are this, they are that... I'm a die-hard Maccabi supporter on international stage. But I'm supporting any team that is play vs. Maccabi domestically because I go with underdogs. That's normal. It's nothing special to support a 15 mio budget team vs. a 1 mio budget team. A win is almost guaranteed. I want other teams to have a chance for success because otherwise I see no progress of basketball in Israel. If you invest 2.5 mio and do not stand a chance, you know that you won't stand a chance with 5 mio, too because the gap is too bug. Plus, you will never get your money back. If you know, you have a chance to win, establish a winning tradition, you might invest in an arena, in European Cups' participation, in players, in youth schools.
    burnstein

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    Well I guess you will agree not to agree.

    As I said before, I'm not against strong league nor strong opponents, but I would like that it'll happen slowly but fair and this system is unfair. It seems like Maccabi "have to apologize" for being so successful and the Israeli future depends with raising the level of other clubs instead that they will lower Maccabi's level. As I said, the "titles" of Holon and Galil didn't bring them nothing beside their name on the trophy and you know what? I really hope that it won't happen to Haifa and I hope they'll continue with their current squad and build continuity. But when the owner doesn't want to invest and sign his player for only one-year-contract, don't come and complain on Maccabi for being better then the others, while the others don't do nothing to create another good basketball club in this country. It is F***ed up system, no matter how you'll turn it around and doesn't fit for professional basketball leagues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idans10 View Post
    Well I guess you will agree not to agree.

    As I said before, I'm not against strong league nor strong opponents, but I would like that it'll happen slowly but fair and this system is unfair. It seems like Maccabi "have to apologize" for being so successful and the Israeli future depends with raising the level of other clubs instead that they will lower Maccabi's level. As I said, the "titles" of Holon and Galil didn't bring them nothing beside their name on the trophy and you know what? I really hope that it won't happen to Haifa and I hope they'll continue with their current squad and build continuity. But when the owner doesn't want to invest and sign his player for only one-year-contract, don't come and complain on Maccabi for being better then the others, while the others don't do nothing to create another good basketball club in this country. It is F***ed up system, no matter how you'll turn it around and doesn't fit for professional basketball leagues.
    Maccabi doesn't have to apologize for anything. They are successful and it's great that way. BUT! There will be no public interest in a one-sided affair. In order to force owners to invest, the league has to stipulate regulations, like a minimum budget or a gym of certain size. Those who are willing to grow will grow, other will make place for those who strive for the stars. Right now, the one game final system is keeping this whole mess alive. But it can't be the only measure. However without all those trophies for other teams recently, there would be no chance for "slow growth" at all. Money and sports don't go slow. Neither did Maccabi. They had the highest budget from the beginning on, playing in Europe they got more advertising, TV money. That brough them to better players, which meant even more of the afore mentioned. Since they have an A licence for the EL, they are in a cycle they can't leave (not that they would like to). As losing the Israeli championship won't deprive Maccabi from playing EL basketball, I hardly see any resons to complain.

    As to "fair" or "unfair", as I said, Maccabi doesn't have to complain because it now has a 95% chance to win the trophy instead of the usual 99%. Bring in good players and play well instead of complaining. And talking about other teams, every year Maccabi snatches away very good players from other Israeli teams. It looks like other teams work at least well in the scouting department.

    Yes, the system might appear to be unfair because not necessarily the strongest team will come out on top. But, as I said before, the champion is not the strongest team overall but the winningest team in the most important moments. That's how sports history is written and why it is so exciting and full of underdog-go-champs stories.
    burnstein

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    That's how sports history is written and why it is so exciting and full of underdog-go-champs stories.
    Agree, and this is why you have a CUP tournament which is being decided by one final match only and gives small clubs the option to surprise the big ones. In one game anything is possible. For league, however, this shouldn't be the story, otherwise Israel wouldn't be the only country to decide a champion of a long season that way. I didn't ask for the strongest team to win the championship, but surely that one who impressed during a full season and was the best in the league, the one who deserved it the most. If Maccabi Haifa finished 2nd with 5 losses more then Maccabi and if they won only one match vs. Maccabi out of 6 times, I guess that they weren't the best team this season. Take a look at Italy, where Roma finished before Siena but lost the title in a series. If they lost to Siena 3 times in two weeks despite finishing ahead of them, than they didn't deserve to be champions and this is how you decide a champion in a league system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idans10 View Post
    Agree, and this is why you have a CUP tournament which is being decided by one final match only and gives small clubs the option to surprise the big ones. In one game anything is possible. For league, however, this shouldn't be the story, otherwise Israel wouldn't be the only country to decide a champion of a long season that way. I didn't ask for the strongest team to win the championship, but surely that one who impressed during a full season and was the best in the league, the one who deserved it the most. If Maccabi Haifa finished 2nd with 5 losses more then Maccabi and if they won only one match vs. Maccabi out of 6 times, I guess that they weren't the best team this season. Take a look at Italy, where Roma finished before Siena but lost the title in a series. If they lost to Siena 3 times in two weeks despite finishing ahead of them, than they didn't deserve to be champions and this is how you decide a champion in a league system.
    As we know, a cup competition has its own rules but winning the Cup doesn't promote you anywhere unlike it used to be until mid-1990ies.
    You realize that the postseason is a totally different thing than the regular season, do you? So, regardless of how many games are being played, the cards are mixed anew. I don't care how many times Haifa lost to Tel-Aviv this season (in different competitions, btw). If they win the most important game of the season, they are the Israeli champion. Not the strongest team but the champion. It's okay that way. You have to bring your best on the table when it matters most.
    Israel is a country, where one team is dominating for several decades. You don't have many competitions, where it happens like that. Such competitions do not draw a lot of interest. If you need to raise the public awareness for some time and the possibilityo f more investment, you have to undertake drastic measures, such as have happened in Israeli basketball. But, as I mentioned, other arrangements have to go hand in hand with it. Otherwise, the situation will never change. And for the time being, Maccabi has just a 95% chance to win the championship, not 99%. I repeat those percentages in every post because they reflect the truth. You have to think about the Israeli basketball situation overall. No Israeli basketball, no Maccabi Tel-Aviv. But also vice versa. It goes hand in hand. Complaining about the unfairness, the unique situation in Israel is not exactly the measure to make things better. The gap between Maccabi and other teams is so huge at the moment that there is nothing to complain about.
    burnstein

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    By the way, just for the record, it's not Haifa who I blame here. Haifa did what they had to do and won the title match (also, what is your reaction regarding the fact that they got to host the title match despite finishing second? is this seem fair enough also?). The blame is on the league management and Maccabi's management even though the Israeli basketball would continue to decide champions with series if Maccabi wouldn't have an automatic spot in the EL, you can count on it. I also don't agree that without the Israeli basketball there is no Maccabi, because Maccabi does have other options whethere we like it or not. and everyone knows that Maccabi build themselves for the EL, not for the Israeli league. And it doesn't matter indeed how many times the two teams met and what was the general result, but I think that a great series was denied from the fans. But I also don't like when people picture the gap between Maccabi and the rest and say that there's nothing we can do. Yes there is. It won't be fast, but you got to start from somewhere. Holon & Galil didn't do nothing with their title, I hope that Haifa will do something for a change. Rosen needs to invest a bit, to build agood team for the Eurocup in order to succee there as well. But if he will continue to think small and clubs will continue to withdraw from European competitions, then it's easy to scream later that the gap between Maccabi & the rest is huge. Before someone wants to bring Maccabi's level down in order to minimize gaps, teams with potential like Haifa, Jerusalem & Hapoel Tel Aviv can finally need to think how can they pull themselves up and by up it doesn't mean winning the title right away.
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    What's happening with Brad Greenberg and Donta Smith? Are they gonna stay at Maccabi Haifa?



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    As for Donte Smith I don't know. As for Greenberg, rumor says that he may leave back to the US because of personal reasons and if so, Danny Franco is the leader to take the job. Franco is an excellent young coach, but for Haifa's sake I hope they'll keep as much as they can from last season's team. They are going to play in the Eurocup and even though Mekel is very important to them, if the rest of them stay I really think that they can get far enough.
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    What do you guys think of Tyler Honeycutt and Mitchell Watts from Ironi Nes Ziona? They are very good players!

    Also now Israeli Basketball League is getting stronger and more competitive such as Ironi Nes Ziona, Maccabi Haifa, Hapoel Eilat, Hapoel Tel Aviv, Hapoel Jerusalem, and of course Maccabi Tel Aviv. It's amazing! It's more fun and enjoyable than before!



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    Quote Originally Posted by [M-120] View Post
    What do you guys think of Tyler Honeycutt and Mitchell Watts from Ironi Nes Ziona? They are very good players!

    Also now Israeli Basketball League is getting stronger and more competitive such as Ironi Nes Ziona, Maccabi Haifa, Hapoel Eilat, Hapoel Tel Aviv, Hapoel Jerusalem, and of course Maccabi Tel Aviv. It's amazing! It's more fun and enjoyable than before!
    Honeycutt is the "steal" of this year.

    I couldn't believe it when i heard he signed with Nes Ziona (I saw him a little bit before when he was member of the Sacramento Kings + D league)

    I can see him on the fast track for Euroleague team next year (maybe not the powerhouse clubs at first).

    Super athletic, good court vision and he is sharing the ball.
    Still, he has problems with decision making and outside shot, but those are things he can improve easily.

    Nes Ziona looks great with the legendary Tapiro at PG, one of the best P&R players in Europe.

    Almost every possesion Tapiro calls for the double-elbow, and choose which side of the P&R to go - and it works perfect with good finishers like Watts and the Israeli Tal Dan

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    What do you guys think of Hapoel Jerusalem and Maccabi Haifa in Eurocup groups? I think Hapoel Jerusalem will advance to quarterfinal.



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    hello guys.i am greek but i am interested about israeli basketball.can someone explain me something?wiki say that hapoel gilboa merged with hapoel galil elyon and create the hapoel gilboa galil elyon.however,i think that hapoel galil elyon is a member of liga leumit for 2013-2014 season.so,what is happening?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos Alexopoulos View Post
    hello guys.i am greek but i am interested about israeli basketball.can someone explain me something?wiki say that hapoel gilboa merged with hapoel galil elyon and create the hapoel gilboa galil elyon.however,i think that hapoel galil elyon is a member of liga leumit for 2013-2014 season.so,what is happening?
    For financial reasons, the original Hapoel Galil Elyon moved to another location, about 1 hour by car from the original location. they had a new sponser and almost antire new management, and changed the name to Hapoel Galil-Gilboa

    However, after a while the original fans of Hapoel Galil Elyon wanted to form another team that will play in the original location in front of the original fan base, so a new team called Hapoel Galil Elyon was formed, and they are playing at the Israeli 2nd division in the original location. (actually, this year they almost qualified for the 1st division but were eliminated at the 2nd division semi-finals)

    there in no connection between the teams, beside the history.


    summary:
    Hapoel Galil Gilboa- playing in 1st division at Gan ner arena (the new location)

    Hapoel Galil Elyon- playing in 2nd division at Kfar Blum (the original location and the original fan base)

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    thank you.so,how much titles has each team?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ran222 View Post
    For financial reasons, the original Hapoel Galil Elyon moved to another location, about 1 hour by car from the original location. they had a new sponser and almost antire new management, and changed the name to Hapoel Galil-Gilboa

    However, after a while the original fans of Hapoel Galil Elyon wanted to form another team that will play in the original location in front of the original fan base, so a new team called Hapoel Galil Elyon was formed, and they are playing at the Israeli 2nd division in the original location. (actually, this year they almost qualified for the 1st division but were eliminated at the 2nd division semi-finals)

    there in no connection between the teams, beside the history.


    summary:
    Hapoel Galil Gilboa- playing in 1st division at Gan ner arena (the new location)

    Hapoel Galil Elyon- playing in 2nd division at Kfar Blum (the original location and the original fan base)
    so,how much titles has each team?thank you in advance

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