Greece-FYROM quarrel: What do the people think?

[Robimkd]

Not at national level. Greeks fascinate me, destroy half of your citys and call Merkel a german nazi and yet you deny Macedonians basic human right. Worst crime you can make. Everybady has the right to call them self by the region they live in. If not americans can not be americans since they are irish, british, italians right ??? or ausstralians or austrians not germans ???.

Greeks ha sno right to make monopol since the name is regional + your name is Greece not Macedonia. But lets not forgett back in time existed no Greece.

I personaly knows a few greeks form Halkidiki good mates of my, they agree this has gone to far and our poeple a part from the
language has similaritys. Music, food, folk song, religion, etc..

Bu this is basketball forum so my last post about this.

[fasoulaki]

Greeks fascinate me, destroy half of your citys and call Merkel a german nazi and yet you deny Macedonians basic human right. Worst crime you can make. Everybady has the right to call them self by the region they live in. If not americans can not be americans since they are irish, british, italians right ??? or ausstralians or austrians not germans ???. Greeks ha sno right to make monopol since the name is regional + your name is Greece not Macedonia. But lets not forgett back in time existed no Greece.

You are also very fascinating. You claim the right of self determination but deny at the same time the right of slavophone poeple to have a greek ethnic and national conscious and insult them by calling them Grkoman/Grecoman.

And I agree! You, Bulgarians and Greeks have a lot of culture in common and it is time to realize this similarities and work hard for a common future for the prosperity of the poeple in the region. First step would be a compromise in the name issue which gives dignity to all people living in the broader international region of Macedonia. North-Macedonia, Vardar-Macedonia, Upper-Macedonia ... all are options which are acceptable for Greece. It is you (at the moment) that want to monopolize the name.

[Robimkd]

OMG Kalashnikov is back.

I personaly knows a few greeks form Halkidiki good mates of my, they agree this has gone to far and our poeple a part from the
language has similaritys. Music, food, folk song, religion, etc.

Not all but many greeks are hyper patriotic and nationalistic and you need to chnage this mentality it do not belong to modern europe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You need to change if not you will be compared with albaniens and turks by mentality.

Macedonians have nothing against greeks (this summer 500.000 of us will visit Greece), we just wait for you to enter 21 century so we can be great neighbors.

Bu this is basketball forum so my last post about this.

[kalashnikov]

I personaly knows a few greeks form Halkidiki good mates of my, they agree this has gone to far and our poeple a part from the
language has similaritys. Music, food, folk song, religion, etc.

we all say that. save the uber-nationalists

Not all but many greeks are hyper patriotic and nationalistic and you need to chnage this mentality it do not belong to modern europe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You need to change if not you will be compared with albaniens and turks by mentality.

given to you by the mind who supports this:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55...10624wz8-1.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...istclaims7.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...stclaims17.jpg

[Robimkd]

I do not support any of that. And as you can see on the pictures very small group of poeple. I can tell you that 90% our poeple do not care about Solun a part from hollyday at summer or shopping, Solun aint part of our merntality our yungsters think about disco and having fan they do not care about stuff ike that trust me. You need to visit us and learn about our mentality. We are not like albanians when 100% are hyper nationalistic. A Macedonian can marrie a Greek with out getting his dick cut of, no one cares.

Thus aleksander statue can be transformed in just 5 min and send to Athen if you only agree to let us be named Macedonians.

[Robimkd]

You can see many many Macedonian-Greeks weddings:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=macedonian+greek+wedding&oq=macedonian+greek+wedding&gs_l=youtube.3..0.3440.7719.0.8341.24.13.0.11.11.0.94.746.13.13.0...0.0.ZaPiL2u1iGk

And our weddings are more or less the same.

[Victorious]

Thus aleksander statue can be transformed in just 5 min and send to Athen if you only agree to let us be named Macedonians.

No, you can keep those statues. In fact, if Greece wasn't in an economical crisis, I would say that Athens had financed the whole antiquisation program in Skopje. Truth be told, it has made your country look rediculous in the eyes of the international community.

Those statues do not exactly support the political position of your government, but epitomise Greece's worries. Indicating that a monopolisation of the name is opening the door to irridentist claims, not to mention a clear breach of ones cultural heritage.

What the civilians think is actually rather irrelevant. The political motivation behind the statues is all that matters as far as the issue is concerned. It is no coincidence that many Greek politicians have - in silence - welcomed those statues. It takes away a burden for them in trying to convince the outside world of the seriousness of this conflict and create more support for the Greek perspective on the naming issue.

[Supply&Demand]

That works both ways, but the problem is not really geographical. It is cultural and historical.Every country in the world can choose any name they want but that does not make claims about the historical past of the area.
You can not claim to be the country Macedonia because like that you claim a very big part of Greek history.
You see what the problem is?
That`s why i tell you that people here get insulted by that name.They feel like geting robbed.
Anyway i hope that a solution will be found soon.
That`s the last post here from me about Greece-FYROM apart basketball.

I see no problem.

Actually disputes about names are a very common phenomenon in the 20th and the 21st century.
An example can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_C...Apple_Computer
Macedonia is a very strong trade-mark.

Macedonia is a public good, it cannot be a trademark. Seriously though, it is a region that belongs to many countries and peoples. The best option for the name dispute is to recognize that everybody who lives in the region of Macedonia has the right to identify as Macedonian. The only other option is name changes, which is also the most painful solution. If we have to demonize each other with the latter option, all I ask is that we keep it fair and force the Greek Macedonians to call themselves South Macedonians.

You are also very fascinating. You claim the right of self determination but deny at the same time the right of slavophone poeple to have a greek ethnic and national conscious and insult them by calling them Grkoman/Grecoman.

And I agree! You, Bulgarians and Greeks have a lot of culture in common and it is time to realize this similarities and work hard for a common future for the prosperity of the poeple in the region. First step would be a compromise in the name issue which gives dignity to all people living in the broader international region of Macedonia. North-Macedonia, Vardar-Macedonia, Upper-Macedonia ... all are options which are acceptable for Greece. It is you (at the moment) that want to monopolize the name.

Uh, two things. Our government does not call the Slavs of Greek Macedonia "grkomani", whereas the farcical name dispute is official Greek foreign policy. Also, the Slavic minority in Greece is not unified about its identity. Some associate fully with Greece, some identify fully with Republic of Macedonia, some recognize with both, some just identify with the region or call themselves Slavs only, etc. There are many other viewpoints as well. Unfortunately the political climate of the name dispute and the confusing history in this region complicates the issue and prevents them from making an unburdened decision.

Also, I don't think dignity belongs to this discussion. Forced name changes are anathema to that idea. It's also quite silly to assume that people will be happy after a forced name change. The bloody and antagonistic history between us will be forgotten as future generations clock in, but a name change won't go away and will serve as a permanent reminder of the hostility of our southern neighbors.

[Tasos Peiraias]

Come on,get serious...
Macedonia is greek!The word <makednos> in greek means <tall> or <highlander>.
FYROM was consisted by Albanians,Bulgarians,Serbians.They have nothing in common with ancient Macedonians.
Their language is too similar with bulgarian language and they are Slavs.
Kyrill and Methodius,Greek brothers from Thessaloniki taught them the christianism and they gave them the kyrillian alphabet.
This is the true story.

[fasoulaki]

Macedonia is a public good, it cannot be a trademark. Seriously though, it is a region that belongs to many countries and peoples. The best option for the name dispute is to recognize that everybody who lives in the region of Macedonia has the right to identify as Macedonian.

I disagree! It is a trade-mark. Of course it is much more than that but it is also a trademark ... like Bordeaux or Champagne for example.

The only other option is name changes, which is also the most painful solution. If we have to demonize each other with the latter option, all I ask is that we keep it fair and force the Greek Macedonians to call themselves South Macedonians.

Greek Macedonians should be called what they are namely "Greek-Macedonians". Since you do not want to be called Slav-Macedonians you should search for a name that is more acceptable for you. Greece proposed some options like North-Macedonians, Upper-Macedonians, Vardar-Macedonians. You should choose a name which shows that you restrict your national identity to the part of Macedonia in which your country is located.

Uh, two things. Our government does not call the Slavs of Greek Macedonia "grkomani", whereas the farcical name dispute is official Greek foreign policy.

That does not matter if this is your official foreign policy or not. It is the way the majority of your people think about Slavophone Greeks. As long as we do not find a way to treat each other respectful, this conflict will go on forever. So if you claim the right of self-determination, than you have also to respect people which have a greek or bulgarian ethnic and national conscious. At the moment you do not do that.

Also, I don't think dignity belongs to this discussion. Forced name changes are anathema to that idea. It's also quite silly to assume that people will be happy after a forced name change. The bloody and antagonistic history between us will be forgotten as future generations clock in, but a name change won't go away and will serve as a permanent reminder of the hostility of our southern neighbors.

I thinks it is your politicians fault if the change of the name of your country (which sooner or later will become reality) is anticipated by the population as forced. Your politicians should have used the last 20 years to explain your poeple why the name change is necessary. And that as a human beeing you are not worth less if you are called Upper-Macedonian instead of Macedonian.

[fasoulaki]

Come on,get serious...
Macedonia is greek!The word <makednos> in greek means <tall> or <highlander>.
FYROM was consisted by Albanians,Bulgarians,Serbians.They have nothing in common with ancient Macedonians.
Their language is too similar with bulgarian language and they are Slavs.
Kyrill and Methodius,Greek brothers from Thessaloniki taught them the christianism and they gave them the kyrillian alphabet.
This is the true story.

This bullshit attitude is one of thes reasons why for so many years we do not have any progress in the name issue.
Slavs arrived in the region in the 6th century. So they live there now for more than 1400 years.
They have every right to associate themselves with the region in which they live for such a long time.

Kyrill and Methodius are wonderful examples since they were half Slav and half Greek/Byzantine/East-Romans.
Their example shows what can happen if there is interculural cooperation.

[Tasos Peiraias]

The best name of FYROM is one:
VARDASKA

[fasoulaki]

The best name of FYROM is one:
VARDASKA

The best name is a name which for both sides is acceptable. Actually there are three sides. Bulgarians also have a viewpoint on the name issue. They said that they will not accept North-Macedonia as a solution because this implies terrotorial claims on their part of Macedonia but I am not sure how serious they are about that.

[Tasos Peiraias]

No.Kyrill and Methodius were Greek ONLY!They were from Thessaloniki and they had greek names.
Also these years Byzantium was greek.There is no difference between Byzantine Empire and Greece.
Ok,they have every right to associate themselves with the region in which they live for such a long time.
But they don΄t have right to steal macedonian history.

[Victorious]

This bullshit attitude is one of thes reasons why for so many years we do not have any progress in the name issue.
Slavs arrived in the region in the 6th century. So they live there now for more than 1400 years.
They have every right to associate themselves with the region in which they live for such a long time.

Their argument is that the Slavs absorbed indigenous peoples. Probably very true, however most of them would have been Thraco-Illyrian tribes, like Paeonians and Dardanians. That's because the natural habitat of the Ancient Macedonians was in what is today Northern Greece and corresponds to a region much smaller than Greek Macedonia.

Anyway, arguing from a perspective of descent is rather outdated though. Would it matter if the majority of them had spoken Greek and been absorbed into the Greek cultural mainframe? To me it certainly wouldn't. Even if the indigenous pre-Slavic people were Paeonians, rather than Greeks.

The best name of FYROM is one:
VARDASKA

That's for the people of that country to decide. All Greece can say is that they can not monopolise the name 'Macedonia'.