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Thread: Greece-FYROM quarrel: What do the people think?

  1. #41
    Senior Member HABIBI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishpower
    I don't get it. Does Greece want Macedonian lands to be Greek, too? WTF, Macedonians are not Greeks, they deserve their own lands. Yes, they were ruled by Greeks-Turks before, but right now there is no way Macedonia can be a Greek land.
    sssssssssssss guys...quite the wiseman spoke

  2. #42
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Carlos Nadal
    And I see that you are sensitive and you want people to have their own lands. I suppose though that this applies only for selected cases of nations but not for others (see Kurds). Oh, I forgot, most of them don't really want their own land...

    I do apologise about the tone of this post, but reading uninformative and random comments on a serious issue like that gets me in the head.
    Easy JCN, I thought no one cared about that really ignorant post of Turkishpower.

    Since you talked about Kurds, I'll say a few things then.
    In fact the situation has some resemblances with the FYROM-Greek conflict. The Turkish Republic do object to foundation of an independent Kurdish state in the Northern Iraq, fearing that one day they may attempt to free "their lands" in Turkey also in pursue of forming a "Great Kurdistan". Personally, I don't care if there's a Kurdish state out of our borders.

    There are many Kurds living in Turkey, especially in the Eastern parts.[*] Some of them have a claim for an independent state, and they've been fighting againts Turkish army since the beginning of 1980s. Although they get much symphaty and help esp. from European countries, the fight they've been waging is really weak and it's pretty obvious they cannot get "their lands" in Turkey in a perceivable future. If you ask my opinion, they serve as a play-dough for some big countries, and unfortunately this war only help to strengthen Turkish army's influence in internal and external affairs of our nation, delaying the settlement of a full democracy.
    Last edited by Levenspiel; 11-05-2006 at 03:30 AM.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Juan Carlos Nadal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sariss
    Easy JCN, I thought no one cared about that really ignorant post of Turkishpower.

    Since you talked about Kurds, I'll say a few things then.
    In fact the situation has some resemblances with the FYROM-Greek conflict. The Turkish Republic do object to foundation of an independent Kurdish state in the Northern Iraq, fearing that one day they may attempt to free "their lands" in Turkey also in pursue of forming a "Great Kurdistan". Personally, I don't care if there's a Kurdish state out of our borders.

    There are many Kurds living in Turkey, especially in the Eastern parts.[*] Some of them have a claim for an independent state, and they've been fighting againts Turkish army since the beginning of 1980s. Although they get much symphaty and help esp. from European countries, the fight they've been waging is really weak and it's pretty obvious they cannot get "their lands" in Turkey in a perceivable future. If you ask my opinion, they serve as a play-dough for some big countries, and unfortunately this war only help to strengthen Turkish army's influence in internal and external affairs of our nation, delaying the settlement of a full democracy.
    Thank you sariss. I am aware of the above indeed. The reason I made referrence to the Kurds (in my haste to reply to TPs comments) was to show the double standards sometimes people have. I just wanted to see how he would compare the FYROM-Greece "fight over free lands" with one that exists within his own country. No intention to touch upon the sensitive issue of the Kurds itself.
    The Euroleague Organization and Mr Bertomeu are like the Bulgarian Government: corrupt, partially stupid, and a huge underestimator of people's intelligence.

  4. #44

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    A bit off-topic: In the wikipedia link, it is claimed that Kurds may comprise up to 30 percent of Turkey's population. One then wonders why DEHAP* and its predecessors have failed to receive more than 6 percent of the votes in previous elections.

    *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEHAP

  5. #45
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by critter out on a walk
    A bit off-topic: In the wikipedia link, it is claimed that Kurds may comprise up to 30 percent of Turkey's population. One then wonders why DEHAP* and its predecessors have failed to receive more than 6 percent of the votes in previous elections.

    *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEHAP
    Yes, that percentage seemed really weird to me, too. It says between 14-30% . That's a very doubtful figure. Maybe, they're counting all the non-Turkish ethnicities as Kurds.

    Now, let's leave the floor to the original discussion.

  6. #46
    Banned turkishpower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Carlos Nadal
    I do apologise but that's pure ignorance! (No offense). Did you even read anything so far? Do you even know what the argument is about?

    What land? Did anyone talk about lands? We are talking about the right to use a name! Yes FYROMians are not greeks, but they are neither Macedonians. They have nothing to do with the ancient Macedonians. Slavic people were not even in Europe at the time Ancient Macedonians existed. That's the argument. Not about greeks claiming the FYROMian lands!

    And I see that you are sensitive and you want people to have their own lands. I suppose though that this applies only for selected cases of nations but not for others (see Kurds). Oh, I forgot, most of them don't really want their own land...

    I do apologise about the tone of this post, but reading uninformative and random comments on a serious issue like that gets me in the head.

    What the hell? Why are you the one replying to me?(bulgarian) What does Kurds have to do with our topic? BTW, I do know that Greeks still think Macedonia lands belong to them. That's what I meant to say. No offense at all though. I knew Albanians-Greeks and Bosnians-Greeks and Macedonians-Greeks are not friends but I didn't know Bulgarians love Greek people

  7. #47
    Senior Member Juan Carlos Nadal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishpower
    What the hell? Why are you the one replying to me?(bulgarian) What does Kurds have to do with our topic? BTW, I do know that Greeks still think Macedonia lands belong to them. That's what I meant to say. No offense at all though. I knew Albanians-Greeks and Bosnians-Greeks and Macedonians-Greeks are not friends but I didn't know Bulgarians love Greek people
    One does not have to be greek to be annoyed by an irrelevant, out-of-the-blue, and with all due respect, ignorant comment. Still, your comment is irrelevant because we are simply talking about a name here, not about who's are these lands. A land dispute has NEVER been the case between Greece and FYROM. Ever. No greek wants FYROM lands back, and no FYROMian (In his right mind at least -- i.e. a non nationalist) wants greek territories.

    Besides, my personal like or dislike of greeks has nothing to do with my answer to your post. I would react the same way even if I read a misinformative or irrelevant negative comment about the FYROMians, or Turkey or even Bush or the Nazis...

    As for what the kurds have to do with the topic, I have already answered. I simply mentioned them to illustrate that some people have double standards when it comes to "ideals".
    Last edited by Juan Carlos Nadal; 11-24-2006 at 11:10 AM.
    The Euroleague Organization and Mr Bertomeu are like the Bulgarian Government: corrupt, partially stupid, and a huge underestimator of people's intelligence.

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    Senior Member rchos7's Avatar
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    What the hell? Why are you the one replying to me?(bulgarian) What does Kurds have to do with our topic? BTW, I do know that Greeks still think Macedonia lands belong to them. That's what I meant to say. No offense at all though. I knew Albanians-Greeks and Bosnians-Greeks and Macedonians-Greeks are not friends but I didn't know Bulgarians love Greek people
    tuskishpower no offence but in this topic you proved once more that you are clueless about this matter!please stop writing things that are out of reality!
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  9. #49
    Senior Member fasoulaki's Avatar
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    Slavs arrived in Macedonia in the year 600. So they are living there for more than 1400 years. Why should they not have the right to call themselves Macedonians?

    But at the same time they do not have the right to monopolize the name because greek speaking people lived there even longer.

    And in addition the Bulgarians claim that the slavic history of Macedonia and Thrace is their own bulgarian heritage.

    The solution is a composite name like Slavomacedonia or North Macedonia, Mounty Macedonia.

    The problem is that the Greeks in the 90ies were not ready to accept that someone else has the right to use the "brand" Macedonia even in a composite form. Therefor precious time has been lost which has not been used for fruitful negotiations but instead they started this stupid embargo.

    Nowadays greek policiy to find a mutual acceptable solution is right! But now the time has changed and many important countries have already accepted to call FYROM as "Republic of Macedonia"

    In addition FYROM has big domestic problems. They cannot accept the name "Slavomacedonia" because that would discriminate the big albanian population living in FYROM which are not Slavs and do not like to be called like that or live in a country that is named like that.

    FYROM needs a name that unites the polyethnic population living in this country and at the same time demonstrates their independence from Bulgaria, Serbia, Albania and Greece.

    To find such a name is not an easy task to do!
    Last edited by fasoulaki; 10-12-2007 at 11:26 AM.

  10. #50
    Senior Member T.W.Is.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fasoulaki

    To find such a name is not an easy task to do!
    Let's call them Vardarska then!
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  11. #51
    Senior Member Fedfan's Avatar
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    Macedonia is not only Greek as it's not only FYROM's.It's a territory but in the same time it's so much more.It's history,pride,national identity.And let's admit it we ARE progonolatric to disgust.

    BTW,Nimic should resign and/or fired ASAP.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArkadiosV2
    FYROMormonians can take the name Macedonia, Alexander the Gay the leader of the greatest genocide ever all for themselves.

    Noone in Greece is giving a rat's ass. Except for people who live in Salonika and vote right wing parties who fuck them with taxes and make them poorer everyday but all they think about is Macedonian name and the new president of PAOK Football Club.

    Take the Macedonian cheese too, it sucks.
    What about Bougatsa???!!!!!!
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  12. #52
    Senior Member EverGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fasoulaki
    FYROM needs a name that unites the polyethnic population living in this country and at the same time demonstrates their independence from Bulgaria, Serbia, Albania and Greece.

    To find such a name is not an easy task to do!
    How about "Aris"? That name covers many nationalities
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  13. #53
    Senior Member qiangdade's Avatar
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    After reading an article in the newspaper and almost completelly agreing with it i must say that the most suitable and acceptable name would be Northern Macedonia (Gorna Makedonija). The formula has already been applied elsewhere, see korea or vietnam (though the situation was different since they where the same peoples) and Slavomacedonia seems to be out of the question due to the objection of the albanian party there.

    As for matters like naming the airport "Alexander the Great" and stuff like that, this is claiming a heritage that not only isn't yours, but also "belongs" to another still existant peoples. Claiming a heritage that is scientifically proven not yours, is ridiculous and extremelly provocative imo.

  14. #54
    Senior Member elaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkadiosV2
    A new episode in the FYROM-Greece relations as Yiannis Amanatides bitch slapped a FYROMormorian girl in Germany...

    This is hilarious.
    ... and who is he?

  15. #55
    Senior Member Buducnost PG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elaj
    ... and who is he?
    Greek football player playing for Frankfurt.

  16. #56
    Senior Member fasoulaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkadiosV2
    A new episode in the FYROM-Greece relations as Yiannis Amanatides bitch slapped a FYROMormorian girl in Germany...

    This is hilarious.
    But I think that this incident is not related to politics.

  17. #57
    Senior Member Juan Carlos Nadal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkadiosV2
    It is not, but I was trying to be a humorist about it.

    But the following one is definitely political:

    FYROM closed it's borders to the Greek Archery NT and they had to travel to Serbia through Bulgaria!

    OK, maybe I don't know some laws but how can a European country close it's borders to any EU citizen if he is not either on the stop list or in the persona non grata list?
    You are asking questions as if you've never been to the Balkans...
    The Euroleague Organization and Mr Bertomeu are like the Bulgarian Government: corrupt, partially stupid, and a huge underestimator of people's intelligence.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Juan Carlos Nadal's Avatar
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    LAWL!

    Welcome home Џeрeмaja!
    The Euroleague Organization and Mr Bertomeu are like the Bulgarian Government: corrupt, partially stupid, and a huge underestimator of people's intelligence.

  19. #59

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    5 options for a new name were proposed:

    1. Democratic Republic of Macedonia,
    2. Constitutional Republic of Macedonia,
    3. Independent Republic of Macedonia
    4. Republic of Upper Macedonia.
    5. ?????

    I dont like any of those, and greeks most probably won't accept neither as well. So we just keep caling Fyrom as Macedonia and everyone is happy

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    as much as this might sound ironic to some i believe it's sadly true... there hasn't been any war or conflict in Fyrom yet, so before picking it's name we should wait to see what will be left of it first otherwise the same procedure of selecting a name might start all over again...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

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