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  • #31
    Parker-spanoulis-teo
    thabo-rudy
    Krilenko-gallinari
    nowitzki-ilyasova
    pau gasol-marc gasol-Omer asik

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    • #32
      Originally posted by c-myers View Post
      Parker-spanoulis-teo
      thabo-rudy
      Krilenko-gallinari
      nowitzki-ilyasova
      pau gasol-marc gasol-Omer asik
      You forgot to add Ibrahim Kutlay and Turkcan + Turkoglu.

      Anyway this game would be very exciting to watch, I don't know what roster of Euro should look like, but putting Ibaka to the roster is absurd (like previous commentator pointed):



      If referees would be objective and game(s) would be played according to FIBA rules and regulations then EURO team have better chance to win game or game series. After several whistled travels and reaching fouls, which were ignored by refs in London (still USA deserved gold), USA team could not play usual game.
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      • #33
        Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
        This team could beat USA, why not. But they could very well lose as well. In 7 games I would still bet 4:3 for USA probably.

        On other hand against USA it should be more of athletic and fast lineup, I agree with Southpaw.

        PG. T. Parker. Rubio.
        SG. Rudy, Navarro (just to have one pure shooter), Batum (to use as a big guard)
        SF. Kirilenko, Iliasova, Kleiza
        PF Pau Gasol, Nowitzki, Ibaka
        C Marc Gasol, Noah (or Mazgov, Kaun, Koufos)

        This team would fit more against USA , IMO.
        Both teams are really bad. Guys, you can't beat best American players if almost all of your players are of the same type/mentality - only generally worse in quality, sometimes slightly, sometimes drastically. So any European team who can give Dream Team a really tough competition (not only in one game but in the series) must be composed mostly of the players of different, non-NBA mentality, players who can surprise them, who are playing another type of basketball. Yes, most probably in order to be successful this hypothetical European Team must bulk up their roster with 2-3 European NBAers but only with the ones of the highest individual quality and some brains left. But you made up teams of Ilyasovas, Ibakas and Noahs which is really laughable. A team like Italy of early 2000s with all their shortcomings would be more successful than these ones just because they were playing traditional continental basketball and weren't relying on athleticism or run'n'gun acrobatics. You can beat Team USA in its best roster regularly only if you are completely different thing from them, if you are going to play 'their' type of basketball then you are doomed because they just have more quality and it's adapted to this type of basketball. You can't run faster than them but you can think faster than them. And this is the only way to win.

        So my team would be something like this:

        Milos Teodosic - Vassilis Spanoulis (no braindead Parker, with all his stupidity, 'I shall win it all by myself'-mentality and awkward shot-selection he is atrocious in internationall basketball; no Bricky, are you serious, he sucks for the last half of the decade continuously, turnover-machine who can't nail it when his life depends on it... what is the PPG he averaged in Barca - 5 or 6? and he is no Prigioni who can have 2 points in a game and still have efficiency of 20 with 10 assists and 7 steals; Shved... well, all of you just seen him in London, the guy has no brains at all which combined with the mediocre but visually flashy offensive prowess made him really suitable for NBA but not for this team)
        Juan Carlos Navarro - Vitali Fridzon
        Rudy Fernandez - Fernando San Emeterio - Andrei Kirilenko (the last one for his individual defense and physicality, still his stupidity always costs his teams more points than he give 'em with his great rebounding, steals and hustles)
        Dirk Nowitzki - Viktor Khryapa - Joel Freeland/Milan Macvan (someone young, enregetic and with the good mid-distance shot)
        Pau Gasol (he will play center and not PF in order to be the most effective for this team) - Sofoklis Schortzianitis - Timofei Mozgov (the last two are needed for the physical domination because one of the main American weaknesses these days is the lack of the offensively capable massive centers aside from Howard)

        This team looks like a not very comfortable match-up for Americans. They still have more individual talent and winning mentality but this team can exploit their weak sides and is most effective in the type of the basketball non-convenient for US players. This team can vary the tactics pretty well - with Mozgov it can play more p'n'r-based style (and even with unorthodox Khryapa-Mozgov combination where the first takes the role of a point forward), with Sofo it can intimidate their opponents with the massiveness (is there such a word?) and power in the paint, both of its main SF (Rudy and San Eme) can play as SG if needed and they have a good combination of quickness to stay close to their opponent on defense and size to try to use it against smaller opponents in offense (and generally they are very well-rounded players), most of its big guys have decent to good three-point shot - so they can't be left alone on the arc, Teodosic, while he is a real psycho and hugely mentally unstable, has one of the brightest 'basketball brains' out there and is an epitome of the real European PG who could be a great floor general, and this team has enough individual offensive talent to compete with the best both in the backcourt and in the frontcourt. A very influential aspect of the possible success for this team would be a deep rotation (current Barca-style) with none of its players, Dirk and Pau included, playing more than 25-26 minutes per game.
        Oh, now I realise that my team is composed from 13 players but let it be, it's too late to fix it 'cause the post is written from the perspective that all of them are in the roster.
        I'm not sure that this team would most probably beat Americans (they are one tough opponent) but it looks much more ready for it than the team composed of Parker-Rubio-Shved-Ilyasova-Ibaka-Noah type of players.
        2013/2014 IBN Euroleague Prediction Game Winner

        Thrash 'till Death!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Terrorizer View Post
          So my team would be something like this:
          Milos Teodosic - Vassilis Spanoulis (no braindead Parker, with all his stupidity, 'I shall win it all by myself'-mentality and awkward shot-selection he is atrocious in internationall basketball; no Bricky, are you serious, he sucks for the last half of the decade continuously, turnover-machine who can't nail it when his life depends on it... what is the PPG he averaged in Barca - 5 or 6? and he is no Prigioni who can have 2 points in a game and still have efficiency of 20 with 10 assists and 7 steals; Shved... well, all of you just seen him in London, the guy has no brains at all which combined with the mediocre but visually flashy offensive prowess made him really suitable for NBA but not for this team)
          Juan Carlos Navarro - Vitali Fridzon
          Rudy Fernandez - Fernando San Emeterio - Andrei Kirilenko (the last one for his individual defense and physicality, still his stupidity always costs his teams more points than he give 'em with his great rebounding, steals and hustles)
          Dirk Nowitzki - Viktor Khryapa - Joel Freeland/Milan Macvan (someone young, enregetic and with the good mid-distance shot)
          Pau Gasol (he will play center and not PF in order to be the most effective for this team) - Sofoklis Schortzianitis - Timofei Mozgov (the last two are needed for the physical domination because one of the main American weaknesses these days is the lack of the offensively capable massive centers aside from Howard)
          This team would only be eventually a problem to USA in a very combined good day of Dirk and Pau... Otherwise in 10 games, 9 wins to USA. Spanoulis, Fridzon, San Emes, Freeland or Khryapa are just normal players on offense and incapable to match up on defense with the athleticism of the USA players. Didn't got your point...
          https://twitter.com/LuksKasabian

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Test View Post
            You forgot to add Ibrahim Kutlay and Turkcan + Turkoglu.
            What's strange? Omer Asik Europe's top defensive(center) player? if you're playing a team Unites States like the athletic.You need a deterrent player at the under pot.

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            • #36
              Taking Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Coach K away would make US beatable through many variations, or even just taking away half of those. But with those 3 players, I just don't see Europe matching their talent on either sides of the floor and unless we're talking of coaching malfunctioning, (I do believe quite many NBA coaches are overated) I don't think it's really worth discussing it at all.
              Originally posted by Jon_Koncak
              That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Terrorizer View Post
                Both teams are really bad. Guys, you can't beat best American players if almost all of your players are of the same type/mentality - only generally worse in quality, sometimes slightly, sometimes drastically. So any European team who can give Dream Team a really tough competition (not only in one game but in the series) must be composed mostly of the players of different, non-NBA mentality, players who can surprise them, who are playing another type of basketball. Yes, most probably in order to be successful this hypothetical European Team must bulk up their roster with 2-3 European NBAers but only with the ones of the highest individual quality and some brains left. But you made up teams of Ilyasovas, Ibakas and Noahs which is really laughable. A team like Italy of early 2000s with all their shortcomings would be more successful than these ones just because they were playing traditional continental basketball and weren't relying on athleticism or run'n'gun acrobatics. You can beat Team USA in its best roster regularly only if you are completely different thing from them, if you are going to play 'their' type of basketball then you are doomed because they just have more quality and it's adapted to this type of basketball. You can't run faster than them but you can think faster than them. And this is the only way to win.

                So my team would be something like this:

                Milos Teodosic - Vassilis Spanoulis (no braindead Parker, with all his stupidity, 'I shall win it all by myself'-mentality and awkward shot-selection he is atrocious in internationall basketball; no Bricky, are you serious, he sucks for the last half of the decade continuously, turnover-machine who can't nail it when his life depends on it... what is the PPG he averaged in Barca - 5 or 6? and he is no Prigioni who can have 2 points in a game and still have efficiency of 20 with 10 assists and 7 steals; Shved... well, all of you just seen him in London, the guy has no brains at all which combined with the mediocre but visually flashy offensive prowess made him really suitable for NBA but not for this team)
                Juan Carlos Navarro - Vitali Fridzon
                Rudy Fernandez - Fernando San Emeterio - Andrei Kirilenko (the last one for his individual defense and physicality, still his stupidity always costs his teams more points than he give 'em with his great rebounding, steals and hustles)
                Dirk Nowitzki - Viktor Khryapa - Joel Freeland/Milan Macvan (someone young, enregetic and with the good mid-distance shot)
                Pau Gasol (he will play center and not PF in order to be the most effective for this team) - Sofoklis Schortzianitis - Timofei Mozgov (the last two are needed for the physical domination because one of the main American weaknesses these days is the lack of the offensively capable massive centers aside from Howard)

                This team looks like a not very comfortable match-up for Americans. They still have more individual talent and winning mentality but this team can exploit their weak sides and is most effective in the type of the basketball non-convenient for US players. This team can vary the tactics pretty well - with Mozgov it can play more p'n'r-based style (and even with unorthodox Khryapa-Mozgov combination where the first takes the role of a point forward), with Sofo it can intimidate their opponents with the massiveness (is there such a word?) and power in the paint, both of its main SF (Rudy and San Eme) can play as SG if needed and they have a good combination of quickness to stay close to their opponent on defense and size to try to use it against smaller opponents in offense (and generally they are very well-rounded players), most of its big guys have decent to good three-point shot - so they can't be left alone on the arc, Teodosic, while he is a real psycho and hugely mentally unstable, has one of the brightest 'basketball brains' out there and is an epitome of the real European PG who could be a great floor general, and this team has enough individual offensive talent to compete with the best both in the backcourt and in the frontcourt. A very influential aspect of the possible success for this team would be a deep rotation (current Barca-style) with none of its players, Dirk and Pau included, playing more than 25-26 minutes per game.
                Oh, now I realise that my team is composed from 13 players but let it be, it's too late to fix it 'cause the post is written from the perspective that all of them are in the roster.
                I'm not sure that this team would most probably beat Americans (they are one tough opponent) but it looks much more ready for it than the team composed of Parker-Rubio-Shved-Ilyasova-Ibaka-Noah type of players.
                Of offcourse, you had to include 4 Russian players. Fernando San Emeterio couldn't play in the final against USA and he never even was close being special in any spot of the game (to mention him among special European players).

                Dirk, Khriapa and Macvan would make 4 position exreamely undersized and average in termps of athleticism, stenght and quickness and would rely only on Dirk's offensive (and overall) talent.

                I can agree about the centers, but not Sofoklis Schortzianitis. The guys' physical domination would end up after 8-12 min. He never was elite big and never will.

                BTW, it's funny how some Europeans treat Rubio The guy will dominate international basketball.
                LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

                Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
                Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
                Buzelis, Lelevicius
                Murauskas, Sirvydis
                Tubelis, Krivas

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Luíz for 3 View Post
                  This team would only be eventually a problem to USA in a very combined good day of Dirk and Pau... Otherwise in 10 games, 9 wins to USA. Spanoulis, Fridzon, San Emes, Freeland or Khryapa are just normal players on offense and incapable to match up on defense with the athleticism of the USA players. Didn't got your point...
                  Nope, complete misunderstanding. Frankly speaking, I was very dubious about the inclusion of Dirk and Pau and obviously they must not overshadow their partners with selfish play as they used to do (especially the latter who makes the game too slow and predictable with his back-to-basket routine) and the game must not be centered around their offensive abilities. Let's say, they must not to take more than 10 shots per game each. The key to success is the reasonable team-play and unpredictability. The result of a bball game can not be predicted by measuring opponents on each position in such categories as vert leap, momentarily acceleration and jump shot accuracy. And that's the fact that is largely forgotten by NBA-oriented fans. This European team is much smarter and can play much more multi-dimensional, varied and multi-directed basketball than their US All-Stars opponents. The main advantage of the elite Euro players over the elite overseas ones is that the Europeans are generally smarter, better in tactical subtleties (if well-coached) and can explore completely different play-modes adopted to their opponents current play accents (while the latter are much more athletic, physical, higher-jumping, faster-running and better shooters and dribblers). And we must expose it in order to be competitive. That's why it's San Eme over Ilyasova, Khryapa over Ibaka, Fridzon over, say, Beno Udrih (who has a decent statistics in NBA but is as clever as neanderthal man) and Spanoulis over Parker. I repeat, you can win US best only if you are completely different from them because the other way around (if you are playing their style of bball with dumbfucks like Parker and Ibaka) they are just better in athleticism, speed, dribble and shooting abilities. About main weakness of this team: you are almost right as many of these players aren't too athletic or fast to cope up with LeBron and KD so the main vulnerability of this team would be individual defense against US leaders who could destroy almost any opponent 1-on-1 in their good day but it can be partially fixed with a good collective defense in a way Russian team (or CSKA) plays in its best moments with good mobility on defense, fast switches of the players who defend against the one with the ball, double-teaming in appropriate moments (which is useful especially against physically superior players who have bad passing skills and court vision and there are quite a some of that type among US top athletes) and intercepting the passing lanes which this team is very capable of. ok, individual defense would be a huge liability of any international team competing with the best US can offer. But do you really think that Parker, Shved/Rubio or Kleiza are better defenders than Fridzon, San Eme and Khryapa? Out of all non-included European NBAers the only ones who can play reasonable defense are Batum and Sefolosha (who is a great defender) but Thabo is totally mediocre and inactive on offense (let's say upgraded and NBA-adopted version of Voronov) which was proved by his recent European voyage and Batum while he is a solid well-rounded player is too inexperienced and lacks good understanding of the game, so Rudy and San Eme are just better as swingmen for this team. Luol Deng is also a good 1-on-1 defender but he most seemingly can't adapt to collective defense once it becomes more complicated and is a typical NBAish player on offense.
                  I think that most probable results in 10 games series are 5-5 or 6-4 (don't even know who's the favourite) but it also depends very much on the coaching aspects. And I also have strong feelings that the team of Straight Forward with Parker and Rubio as PG and Gasol bros as twin towers would be wiped out by the US team with something like Paul-Wade-James-Durant-Howard starting five in a really atrocious manner - something like 9-1 or 8-2.
                  2013/2014 IBN Euroleague Prediction Game Winner

                  Thrash 'till Death!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
                    Of offcourse, you had to include 4 Russian players.
                    I know it would hurt you a lot There are two main reasons for the inclusion of four Russian players (and four Spanish, btw, which you failed to notice): 1) Spain and Russia are two best NTs currently besides USA and they have a pretty stable core of players for quite a some period, so they must be slightly favoured in debatable cases because of the fact that they are used to know how to play with one another pretty well and it would be beneficial for the team chemistry; 2) I made up this team concentrating on the intellect and cleverness 'cause it's where we have a substantial lead over Americans and, like it or not, Russian NT and major clubs are known for exactly that kind of play, highly intellectual passing game based on good court vision and understanding of the game flow, it's our tradition, f.e., even when we suck results-wise we are almost always one of the leading teams considering assists number; if I want to come up with a team based on speed and athleticism it would obviously have many Frenchmen in its ranks while the current has none of them.

                    Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
                    Fernando San Emeterio couldn't play in the final against USA and he never even was close being special in any spot of the game (to mention him among special European players).
                    It's fashionable to underestimate him But the truth is that he is one of the best and perfectly well-rounded European players out there and has very bright head which would be a main advantage for this team.

                    Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
                    Dirk, Khriapa and Macvan would make 4 position exreamely undersized and average in termps of athleticism, stenght and quickness and would rely only on Dirk's offensive (and overall) talent.
                    Dirk is an average defender but he is a 7-footer with really long hands and Macvan is definitely not a small guy (especially having in mind his physical stature) so to call this set of PFs 'extremely' undersized is a real overstatement. Only Khryapa is really undersized for this position but on offense he can play successfully far from the basket staying on the arch and feeding his teammates with beautiful passes or shooting the threes when needed and when he feels his touch. Defensively Khryapa is a beast, has fast hands and he is a very capable of defending against much more physically superior opponents. And once again, you can't beat USA with your supreme athleticism or speed of running across the floor so when you entitled to choose between average athlete with striking bball IQ like Khryapa and magnificent athlete but simultaneously a complete idiot like Ibaka you simply must choose the first.

                    Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
                    I can agree about the centers, but not Sofoklis Schortzianitis. The guys' physical domination would end up after 8-12 min. He never was elite big and never will.
                    Big Sofo is needed exactly for that - 10 or max 15 minutes of physical domination when he is fresh and can intimidate anyone in the paint and crush all his opponents with his might and physical power. He would have limited playing time but when he is in his top form he could be badly dangerous on offense for these 10-15 minutes.
                    Rotation on C must be something like Pau 15-20 minutes (he can get some more minutes as a 4 if the proper PFs are playing badly this day) - Sofo 10-12 minutes - Mozgov 10-15 minutes.

                    Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
                    BTW, it's funny how some Europeans treat Rubio The guy will dominate international basketball.
                    Why are you talking in the future tense? He already dominated international basketball for his last two years in Europe, don't you remember. Sometimes he even managed to prove himself as a more valuable player for Barca than such a monster of European bball as Victor Sada. Frankly speaking, it happened pretty sparsely but nevertheless that was a grandiose achievement.
                    2013/2014 IBN Euroleague Prediction Game Winner

                    Thrash 'till Death!

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